Public Safety Committee on May 1st, 2014

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Do we have concurrence here? I'm just thinking that we have a limited amount of time.

We'll go to seven-minute rounds after the first round? Okay.

We will finish our seven-minute round. We have two five-minute rounds or we can go to seven minutes right off the bat. Do you want to start all over right here?

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

It's a new second round or do we start at the beginning?

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

We'll start again right now.

Ms. James, you have seven minutes.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm actually going to allow my colleague Mr. Maguire to start the first seven-minute round.

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

That's fine.

Mr. Maguire, you have seven minutes, sir.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank my colleague for that opportunity.

I want to thank all of our guests for being here today and appearing before our committee.

There are a number of areas that come into question, but I'd just like to start off with Correctional Service Canada, if I could, and ask the commissioner if he could please update the committee on the funds that were being returned through the main estimates.

[Don Head, Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The $119 million that the minister mentioned earlier is a result of the amount of moneys that were placed in the fiscal framework for us based on the earlier forecasts that were done back in 2008. When we started to review those forecasts, we found that they were not accurate. Unfortunately, at the time those forecasts were developed, they were based on data that was available from Statistics Canada and the Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, which was only up to date to the years 2004 and 2005. The following year was when we started to re-review those numbers. There was more up-to-date information available to us, which caused us to then adjust our forecasts, which we have seen for the last couple of years to be much more accurate, to the point that they've been accurate to within 1% of the projections. So the moneys that are being returned, $119 million, were moneys that were set aside in the fiscal framework based upon a projection that we would have been at 18,000 inmates this year, and currently we're at 15,276 incarcerated.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

So you have a gap of several thousand there that aren't in the process.

We heard earlier about the issue of double-bunking. Can you share with the committee your thoughts and information from the literature regarding the claim that double-bunking has any impact on the rate of violent incidents behind bars?

[Don Head]

Thanks again for the question.

We've been monitoring the whole issue of double-bunking very closely, particularly as it relates to both the modest increase in the population and the impact as a result of us closing three facilities: Kingston Penitentiary, the Regional Treatment Centre, and the Leclerc Institution in the Laval area. As a result of those increases, we've put in an additional double-bunking measure, which saw us on average going up to having about 20% of the population being double-bunked.

Concurrently, we were in the process of building new units. Most of those units will be coming online in the next several months, which will be creating 2,752 new cells, which will allow us to help to move down very quickly from that 20%. Even as of today, we're already just slightly under the 20% figure. We have 2,700 offenders double-bunked and we're at just 19.6%, grosso modo, double-bunked.

In terms of issues around violence, there's been a lot of discussion about whether security incidents in our institutions have been directly linked to double-bunking. We've monitored this very closely. None of the incidents that we've seen, particularly some of the more serious ones, are directly linked to double-bunking at all. They're linked to the behaviours of individuals who are problematic and individuals who should be in federal penitentiaries.

We've done a lot of studies on this. I think we actually shared a copy of a report earlier with this committee. They've demonstrated that there is no direct correlation between the increase in the double-bunking for the last couple of years and the increase in security incidents.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I want to follow up, Mr. Chair, with a question. We hear concern about problems with drugs in prisons, and I'm wondering if you can inform us as to whether you're seeing any reduction in drug use following the increased interdiction and drug testing that is presently going on in our Canadian institutions.

[Don Head]

Yes, most definitely. As the committee is probably aware, we increased the rate of urinalysis testing among the incarcerated inmate population, and we've started to see a decrease in the positive tests. Now, we still do have positive results, which are of concern to us. Our goal is to have zero positive tests in our institutions, but we have started to see a decline.

We have a better sense of the kinds of drugs that we should be looking for in the institutions, primarily the positive tests are for THC—marijuana—opiates, and amphetamines. So having that knowledge is allowing us to target those kinds of drugs and the manner in which they could be introduced.

As well, we've made significant investments over the last several years to enhance the training of staff to do searching of visitors, contractors, and even searching our own staff coming into the institutions. As well, we've also put in place various measures that have allowed us to acquire new pieces of technology and equipment to help us better detect contraband that individuals are trying to introduce into our institutions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

You have 30 seconds more, Mr. Maguire.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I just wanted to follow up. Is there any difference, really, in the types of drugs that you're seeing in the prisons? Or is it consistent with what's been there in the past?

[Don Head]

There is a bit of a change. Some of the harder core drugs that we saw earlier have diminished because it's a little harder to get those in. So, as far as I'm concerned, any drug in an institution is dangerous, but some of the more significantly serious drugs have started to decline.

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Thank you, Mr. Maguire.

Now we have Mr. Rousseau and Mr. Garrison. You are splitting your time, I do believe?

[Jean Rousseau, NDP, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Yes, thank you very much.

I have a question concerning the Parole Board of Canada.

We know that you are busy dealing with a backlog of close to 20,000 pardon requests. Those are decisions having to do with the clearing of criminal records and recommendations concerning clemency.

How can you free up some resources, both human and financial, so as to process those pardon requests since the budget in your department has for practical practices not changed? What type of measures are you going to take to process those 20,000 pardon requests, which are important? We are talking here often about people who want to rejoin the labour market and this pardon request is important for them.

[Harvey Cenaiko, Chairperson, National Parole Board]

Thank you very much for the question, Mr. Chair. The numbers as of Tuesday, as of two days ago, we have decreased that pardon backlog from 22,320 files to 12,066. So over the next year our goal is to reduce that right down to zero, obviously.

However, we have funding in place now for the next six months, until September, and we're cash managing within our own budget to ensure that we can look at efficiencies as we go through the year and at opportunities to ensure that we can effectively spend the budget that we have. However, we hope to be, by September, at approximately 6,000 left to review.

One of the major concerns that we have as well is working with our partners in the community, with the local police agencies, and with the courts to ensure that the final documents that are being provided by applicants are final. So those are taking some time as some policing agencies have been swamped with requests from the Parole Board, from ourselves, asking for the information. However, we have made great strides over the last year, and we'll continue to do that over the next year.

[Jean Rousseau, NDP, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Thank you very much. I'll pass to Mr. Garrison.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Thank you very much.

I want to go back to Mr. Paulson and ask about something we talked about the last time I believe he was here, and that's PTSD and RCMP members. If I recall correctly, there were some changes in programming taking place and some cooperation with the defence department that was no longer going to be there.

So I would just ask you for an update on the RCMP programs for dealing with PTSD.

[Commr Bob Paulson, Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Thank you.

As a matter of fact, just today we've announced and released to our membership another phase of our mental health plan. Like Corrections, we've partnered with some agencies in developing capacity to help us work with those individuals. We've appointed a champion within the organization and the plan is rolling out. There's an action plan that's coming forward to get it out into each division. We've made quite a bit of headway in terms of trying to address those operational skills injuries.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Thank you very much for the attention you've obviously given to this. I know it's a great concern among members all across the country.

[Commr Bob Paulson]

It is, yes.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

No criticism of you as commissioner, but I think we've been slow as a public to recognize PTSD in our emergency services.

[Commr Bob Paulson]

Well, it's an insidious sort of side effect to stressful work. I think we recognize that, and our mental health plan recognizes that and is focused on proactive measures.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

I want to ask a question. In the absence of the minister, I guess it will go to the deputy minister.

I asked the minister previously about the question of armoured cars and what's happening with armoured cars in this country. We have about four companies that have bought up most of the armoured cars, and they are in the process of reducing crews on those armoured cars from three to two. It's caused a safety problem. We've now had a shootout in public in Longueuil and we've had a shootout in Toronto.

The minister's answer to me in question period was that it's not a federal jurisdiction. I guess my question is about that to me there seem to be several ways in which it is a federal jurisdiction. One, of course, is that it's part of the banking and finance industry. Second, federal government firearms licences are issued to people operating armoured cars. In the past, there have been Canadian labour relations board decisions dealing with armoured cars. Finally, of course, there is public safety. If we end up with organized crime identifying armoured cars as easy targets, we're going to have a public safety problem.

Do the deputy minister and the government see a role for the federal government in making sure that the reductions in crews and staffing that have been happening in armoured cars do not become a public safety problem and also an occupational problem for those working in industry?