Status of Women Committee on Oct. 26th, 2006

[Armand Pereira]

The information we have and believe from our estimates is that about 40% under eighteen years old are victims of forced labour and related trafficking. I go back to the same old problem of trafficking versus forced labour.

If there is more time later, there is something related to another question that was asked before, but you have your time allotment, so I'll wait.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

All right.

What factors make a person vulnerable to trafficking? Do different factors come into play for young people and children?

[Armand Pereira]

In the case of the ILO, we have a number of projects that focus on the trafficking of children. This is happening partly because of the interest of the donors but also because it's part of the reality in a number of countries.

We've lately been concerned with, and have been focusing on, domestic workers. When we started doing projects on domestic workers years back, we were concerned mainly about the problems of age minimums and of kids being able to fit into transition programs that could gradually get them away from work and to school. Now we're getting more concerned with the problem of children and adolescents in domestic work being actually abused, as my colleague was just mentioning.

At the ILO we're also very much concerned--this is related to the previous question, which I can now answer--about restrictive visas. In some conditions, these restrictions, compared with other countries, can be a promoting factor for forced labour, for some type of forced labour. Forced labour is really a question of working in freedom versus not working in freedom--workers being restricted, being coerced or afraid. That is the element of forced labour, whether it's for one kind of activity or another.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Madam Chair, do I have some more time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You have less than two minutes.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Perhaps my colleagues can avail themselves of the time remaining.

Joy, do you have a question, or Bruce?

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

I have a quick one.

To Mr. Bellefeuille, I think you made a very poignant point about the notion that the demand side is really what needs to be addressed. I think other witnesses touched on this as well. What types of remedies do you see helping to change that culture, to actually curtail the demand? We've heard much testimony that what's driving a lot of trafficking is in fact prostitution. We need to get right to the demand for prostitution.

What do you contemplate mitigating the spread of this blight against society in prostitution, especially as it relates to going after the exploiters, the demand, in fact the men who are pushing?

[Jean Bellefeuille]

Your question is excellent. There's only one problem: it may have come a year too soon. It's precisely on these questions that we want to start working. This year, we've chosen to work on demand with regard to the same concerns as you have. We've hired Ms. Lebrun specifically to work on these questions.

We know that there is a way of doing something, because a country like Sweden worked in this area a number of years ago. It finally came up with legislation and achieved results. Naturally, nothing's perfect, but this is probably the best of the less than perfect, and it's definitely not by legalizing prostitution that they got there, on the contrary. Now a few distinctions must be made, and there must be programs that are well directed. That's what we want to work on.

With your permission, I'd like to take a few moments to respond to Ms. Grewal. If I understood correctly, one of her questions concerned minors. One of our associates, a nun, works in Vancouver for Citizenship and Immigration Canada and deals with unaccompanied children. She knows a number of children who come from Latin America, from El Salvador and Honduras. These children work in Vancouver for organized crime, transporting and delivering drugs to clients. Young minor children are being used to do this work because they're not targeted by police officers; they look innocent; they don't look like much. A number are on the street doing this kind of work, trafficked by organized crime and exploited by it on a regular and daily basis.

There are other phenomena. I witnessed one personally: a young girl 12 years old arrived in Montreal with her alleged parents, who left her in Montreal at the home of an aunt, who wanted to use her to help take care of her children. Knowing the situation, we quickly managed to have her go to school, have a normal life and have her rights respected. However, she had come to take care of young children, somewhat like a slave, but, ultimately, she had come to help her aunt. Perhaps in her culture, that was something that might be acceptable, but it was a form of trafficking and exploitation. This has often happened to these types of children, who have become orphans as a result of all the wars there have been in Central Africa.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you so very much. Unfortunately, our time is up. Every time we have these sessions I think we need to find more time because there are more questions.

Thank you very much for being very informative this morning in helping us with what we all very much care about. It is a very important issue that we want to be able to make some recommendations on. Thank you all very much for coming.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Madam Chair, could we get a copy of Ms. Lebrun's research paper?

[Aurélie Lebrun]

I'm starting.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

As soon as it's ready, it would be good to have it. We'll be here for a few years.

[Aurélie Lebrun]

Definitely.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Anything you have in writing that you can leave with the committee will be helpful. Thank you.

[Aurélie Lebrun]

I simply want to tell you that I took part in a study on trafficking in persons in Quebec and that the findings should be known soon.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

It would be good to send us that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

We still have several issues on the table for us to deal with this morning.

If the witnesses wouldn't mind carrying on the conversation outside the room, or at the back of the room, we would appreciate it. I am sorry about that.

We have several issues here. We need to spend a few minutes with our researchers this morning. We have a motion by Ms. Minna on the table.

Ms. Minna, would you like to speak to your motion, please?

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Yes, Madam Chair. Thank you very much.

Does everyone have a copy? I gather not everyone has a copy today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Does everyone have a copy of the motion we are about to look at?

[Some hon. members]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Would you like to speak to your motion, Ms. Minna?

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I drafted this motion because, as you know, we have had some discussion around this committee for some time with respect to the cuts. We had witnesses and we had the minister in as well during the estimates and so on to discuss the changes to the Status of Women program.

I, and I know my colleagues, do not feel comfortable that in fact the changing of the future direction of the program is acceptable to us. Quite frankly, I think the future and the vision of the program is extremely limiting, by eliminating the criterion for the equality of organizations for women and also by limiting the ability for the Status of Women Canada to actually act as a strong voice within government.

My motion is basically saying that--

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Could you read it into the record, please?

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Okay. It states:

That,

Whereas the recent $5 million in cuts to the operating budget of the Status of Women Canada places in jeopardy the valuable work done in this department to promote the equality of women and;

Whereas these cuts will make it harder for women across the country to participate in the economic, social, cultural and political aspects of society and;

Whereas the draconian changes to the Terms and Conditions to the Women's Program under Status of Women undermines the very basis of democracy--the ability to advocate on behalf of vulnerable groups and;

Whereas removing “equality” as one of the goals of the program sends a chilling message to the dedicated equality-seeking organizations throughout the country;

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), that the Standing Committee on the Status of Women (SWC) recommends that the government reverse the $5 million in cuts to the operating budget of SWC and re-instate the original Terms and Conditions of the Women's Program and that the Chair report the adoption of this motion to the House without delay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Is there discussion on the motion?

Ms. Guergis, would you like to speak to the motion.