Evidence of meeting #27 for Status of Women in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Barry MacKillop  Director General, Law Enforcement and Border Strategies Directorate, Department of Public Safety
Michel Aubin  Director, Federal and International Operations, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Megan Imrie  Director, Horizontal Policy and Planning Division, Canada Border Services Agency
Rick Stewart  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Marie-Claude Arsenault  Non-Commissionned Officer, Human Trafficking National Coordination Centre, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

12:40 p.m.

Supt Michel Aubin

I can tell you—and this is basically premised on police experience and dealing with people at the time we're interviewing them—there is a correlation between their knowing that the perpetrator or person against whom they are talking is in the judicial system, in jail, or out of reach and basically out of harm's way, and a better intention on their part to work or cooperate with law enforcement, from a general perspective.

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

I have another quick question.

Are there any statistics—

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

That's it. You just have 40 seconds left.

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Okay.

Are there any statistics on the age of most victims, or on any other things? Are there any statistics right now on the victims of human trafficking?

12:40 p.m.

Sgt Marie-Claude Arsenault

No, we don't have statistics. I can give you some statistics on the cases before the courts where we've had convictions. In the five cases where a human trafficking conviction was secured, four of the victims were underage.

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

They were minors.

12:40 p.m.

Sgt Marie-Claude Arsenault

They were minors, under age 18.

12:40 p.m.

Supt Michel Aubin

There were seven adults, though.

12:40 p.m.

Sgt Marie-Claude Arsenault

Yes, seven adults, and four underage.

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Okay, great. Thanks you very much.

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Before I thank the witnesses and ask them to leave, I would just like to clarify a couple of things. I'll just put the questions to you and you can answer them quickly.

In your awareness package, are you also working with the hospitality industry, with taxi drivers, and other people who deal with transportation, who may quite often be in a better place to see what you cannot see? For instance, someone could be getting into a cab with someone who is obviously underage, or whatever. That's the first question.

The second question is about the Internet. I discovered when we were dealing with this, when I was Secretary of State for the Status of Women, that the Internet is where much of the commercial sexual exploitation of children and youth occurs. It's no longer on the streets, because they're too easy to recognize and be picked up. So they're either on the Internet or they're in massage parlours, which, generally speaking, are quite legal-looking and -sounding. This is a hidden issue; it's not easy to find the perpetrators.

When we dealt with this and did some research on it out of Status of Women Canada, we found that a lot of the internationally trafficked people are very afraid to come out. It doesn't matter if the local person is in jail, because their families at home are at risk, so they won't speak out because they know the cartels and traffickers are ready to deal with their families at home, and they live under that threat.

So I'd like to know what you're doing about people in the hospitality industry and taxis, and about the Internet, and about the fact that a lot of people will not speak out because of fear of retribution back home.

Let's put it this way: if you get 44 people, we know they are not the tip of the iceberg; they are the atom at the top of the iceberg. So how do you plan to deal with this, not only at the 2010 Olympics, which is what we're talking about, but in general? I think this requires a bigger and a broader policy initiative that must be brought into play.

12:40 p.m.

Supt Michel Aubin

To your first question, Madam Chair, on the hospitality industry and what not, I think there are two approaches. One is through the current awareness campaign to bring awareness to all. But as well, the other is to focus on law enforcement from a practical perspective. With law enforcement in the city, the police officers who are on the street have their contacts or sources in all sorts of industries. That's how law enforcement works. Regardless of what type of crime, we do have our contacts, and it's through those contacts and neighbourhood policing and reaching out to the community—

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

What I mean is the person sitting at a hotel registration desk, and the taxi driver.

12:40 p.m.

Supt Michel Aubin

And that's why I say that through law enforcement we have contacts within these services by the very nature of our work, because we deal with them on many issues. So it's very normal to have these contacts, and it's a matter of making the police officers aware of this type of crime, as well as the general community.

There's a lot of work that needs to be done; you're absolutely right. But we think the best way of getting at this is to make the police officers aware, because they are already in touch with the people who are running the hotels, especially the seedier hotels, where all sorts of criminality may occur.

12:45 p.m.

Sgt Marie-Claude Arsenault

May I add something?

In the tool kits in front of you, there are two posters. There is one for targeting victims; the other one is for the public in general. These posters have been distributed, and the intention is to place them in various areas such as airports, bus stations, and train stations. They will be in every public place where a victim can see them.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Will they be on the Internet?

12:45 p.m.

Director General, Law Enforcement and Border Strategies Directorate, Department of Public Safety

Barry MacKillop

I would add a couple of things. One is on the broader prevention. The “blue blindfold” campaign that Crime Stoppers will do will be available everywhere and will be distributed everywhere.

They will also be doing a national media campaign as well. People see vignettes on TV about Crime Stoppers. They will develop one with respect to human trafficking, so that will be available.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Will it be on airlines?

12:45 p.m.

Director General, Law Enforcement and Border Strategies Directorate, Department of Public Safety

Barry MacKillop

I'm not sure. We can certainly talk. I haven't looked at whether Crime Stoppers will be moving into that area.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Brazilian airlines had a great clip that they used to put on with regard to this.

12:45 p.m.

Director General, Law Enforcement and Border Strategies Directorate, Department of Public Safety

Barry MacKillop

Yes, they did.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Sorry, go ahead. I only have a minute, so I need the answer on the Internet.

12:45 p.m.

Director General, Law Enforcement and Border Strategies Directorate, Department of Public Safety

Barry MacKillop

As you know, we do have our national strategy for protection against child sexual exploitation on the Internet. I chair that strategy as well. We also work very closely with Cybertip.ca. Some of the money that we received from budget 2006 was for renewing the child protection strategy. It includes their ability to receive tips related to child trafficking as well. If there are trafficking issues, they will receive tips and track them and refer them to law enforcement, as they do with the child sexual exploitation tips that they receive, so we are starting to cover some of the Internet from that perspective.

Madam Chair, I know it doesn't go to your question on recruitment on the Internet, but from the police and law enforcement perspective, I'll say without going into detail that there is enforcement on the Internet.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

What can you tell us about massage parlours?

12:45 p.m.

Director General, Law Enforcement and Border Strategies Directorate, Department of Public Safety

Barry MacKillop

Massage parlours would be Michel's area.