Status of Women Committee on May 26th, 2010

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Mr. Calandra, there's a vote. If you would remember, when we discussed this issue, we said that if there was a vote between meetings--and there is a vote now--that we would come back after the vote. I don't know when the vote will end. That's why I don't have a timeline for you. It depends on the vote and how many votes there are. I do not make those decisions, Mr. Calandra. The whips do. Now, would you please--

Madame Demers?

[Rona Ambrose, Conservative, Edmonton—Spruce Grove, AB]

Madam Chair, both of us have meetings to go to before we go to the vote, so I would just like to thank you for having us here and thank the members for their questions. I hope we can all work together in a spirit of cooperation and collaboration. We were happy to be here to answer your questions and we look forward to working with you in the future.

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Thank you, also, Madam Chair, for your interest in this. As I say, I think we can all come together in understanding that Canada can do a great deal to help mothers and children.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

We'll have a short recess.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Before we move into business, I would like to apologize to Madame Demers and Ms. Mathyssen that they were not allowed to have the questions they were going to ask. I had asked the ministers to stay and answer, on a point of fairness, and that did not happen, so I'm afraid we're going to have to move on now to this part of the meeting.

We have two motions, one by Madam Neville and one by Ms. Boucher. The first notice of motion from the Honourable Anita Neville, of Thursday, May 20, 2010, reads: “That Committee request a report from the Minister of Industry, outlining--

Order, please.

I am in the middle of reading a motion, Ms. Boucher.

Madam Neville's motion reads:

That Committee request a report from the Minister of Industry outlining: (a) departmental policies and targets concerning the recruitment and appointment of under-represented groups, specifically women, to the Canada Excellence Research Chairs (CERC); (b) whether the negotiated agreement reached in 2006 on gender representation in the awarding of Canada Research Chairs was considered during the creation of CERC; and (c) the mandate and findings of the department's internal investigation of the 2010 CERC selection process, as referred to by the Minister of Industry on Wednesday, May 19, 2010 in the Toronto Star; and that this report be received by the Committee by Wednesday, June 9, 2010.

Do you wish me to read this motion in French?

Or shall we just continue?

Madam Neville, would you speak to your motion?

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I think the motion is self-explanatory. I think I was not alone; I think there were many probably around this table and certainly in my community...because I heard fairly quickly about the fact that among the 19 research chairs not one was a woman.

I understand that there are processes; I've received some information, but not enough. I would like the committee to support this request that we ask for a report from the minister, who himself expressed concern about this issue, and that he provide this report to the committee for our information and perhaps for further discussion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Is there any discussion on this motion? It seems pretty straightforward. Is there any discussion?

No further discussion? I will call the vote on the motion.

Yes, Ms. McLeod.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I do understand that the decisions regarding these chairmanships are made by the universities, so I'm not sure you will be getting your answer through this motion. I'm not sure this will dig to the bottom of the problem.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

May I respond, Madam Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes. Respond, Ms. Neville.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I'm not sure that it will either, but I'd like to begin the process of trying to get to it. I do know that they are made by the universities. but I don't know whether there are guidelines that are followed, whether there are criteria that are established, and whether there are options. I'd like to get a full picture of what in fact does or does not happen. I am aware that the decisions are made by the universities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Ms. Wong.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

I am just wondering whether the Ministry of Industry is really able to give us the answer. Maybe it's CERC that we should ask, instead of asking the government to report to us on something on which they didn't make the decision.

I came from an academic background and I know that CERC has their own rules. And, of course, it's also my concern if gender is an issue; however, I don't think this is the right approach, and I don't know what we are going to do with the report. We are going to ask for a report that will stay sitting there and then we are not taking anything....

Mind you, we have a very tight schedule, and we already have a lot of studies that have not been finished yet. This will bring another thing to the table that would take up time, and if it stays just sitting there, then I don't see why we should be doing this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes, Ms. Neville...?

Actually, Ms. Mathyssen.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair.

It seems to me that Ms. Neville, in saying that the report be received by the committee, is allowing the committee to make the determination in regard to what we should do with this report.

It also seems to me that this government in many ways has bent over to congratulate itself about the progress that women are making and has taken all kinds of credit for more women in academic institutions. If they're willing to take the credit for more undergraduates, I think they also have to be concerned about the fact that these women are not making the kind of progress that we would like to see.

So I'm very supportive of this. I think it's important and timely, in keeping with what we're finding out in terms of CERC.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Ms. Mathyssen.

Is there any further discussion?

Ms. Neville, will you close...?

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Very briefly, Madam Chair. I don't know what the problem is in asking the minister for a report. He, too, expressed concern about it. His department is the department that provides the funding and oversees the grants. Perhaps in looking into it, he may find something he was unaware of, but I think asking for further information about inequities as this relates to opportunities for women should be something that everybody would support.

What we do with the report depends on what the report says. If the report says nothing, then I don't know.... But I'd like to know why this happened. It was startling. It was dramatic. In my community, it created an instant response. So I don't understand what the problem is in asking for a report, and I'm not suggesting we do a study until we know what the report has to say.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Ms. Neville. I will call the question now.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

A recorded vote, Madam Chair....

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Certainly, a recorded vote, please. Those in favour of the motion? Those opposed?

Well, we have a tie vote, so the chair will have to vote to break the tie.

I will vote in favour of the motion. It is totally appropriate for a Status of Women committee that is examining the progress of women within government, within various institutions, and in Canada in general, to ask for a report of any department's internal investigation of the 2010 CERC selection process with regard to gender representation. So the motion has passed.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5)

We have another motion now, from Madame Boucher. The motion reads:

That the Committee undertake a study to examine work that is being done in Afghanistan to improve living conditions of all women and children in that country, focusing on Canada's role in that work, and report on it to Parliament; That the study, which has the support of the Minister for Status of Women, the Minister of National Defence, the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the Minister of International Cooperation, include inviting witnesses from the departments and groups involved in that work to appear before the Committee; and That the study take into consideration the historical situation for women in Afghanistan under the Taliban; the work being done by Canada in Afghanistan, the complementary work being done by NGOs and others in Afghanistan and the successes and setbacks as well as the lessons learned.

The motion is clear.

Madame Boucher, would you like to speak to your motion?

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

The Honourable Rona Ambrose, who is the new Minister for Status of Women, has been to Afghanistan. She thinks it is important to report to the committee on her experience and to call on the services of the Department of Defence and Foreign Affairs. We need to look at what has been happening since Canada began helping Afghan women in their country, to consider successes and failures alike, and to learn from all that has taken place. I think that it is important to look into everything that has happened since Canada committed to helping Afghanistan. Our involvement began before the current government took office. It is important to take note of all the work that has been done in the field by NGOs, as well as by departments and the military. Ms. Ambrose and I have talked a lot, and we have come to the conclusion that it would benefit everyone here to understand the progress made by Afghan women.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Is there any discussion?

Ms. Mathyssen.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Madam Chair, given the tightness of our schedule, I don't see how we can possibly begin something like that. We have a great deal to do in the next four weeks. I'm at a loss to understand how we could fit in anything else.

Perhaps it's something for much later in the fall, and if so, since Canada is scheduled to leave Afghanistan in February 2011, how relevant will it be? I would like to hear the response in regard to relevance. Again, I don't see how we could possibly fit it in at this point.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Ms. Mathyssen.

Ms. Brown.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Madam Chair, I would just reiterate something that Minister Ambrose spoke about earlier, about it being a legacy for Canada. I think it is one of the things that we have done very well in Afghanistan, having spoken to many members of our armed forces.

I had the good fortune of participating in the parliamentary program for MPs at Wainwright last summer. Many of the trainers who were there working with our reserve forces were individuals who had done two, three, or four tours of duty in Afghanistan. There were comments from them constantly about the tremendous work we have done in providing services for women and girls.

I think it is absolutely relevant that we look at something like this given that this is the opportunity for us to focus on a legacy that all of us have been participants in, because it was a former administration that put our troops into Afghanistan as part of a NATO-led force. I think each one of us has a stake in ensuring that the work we have done there has merit and has legacy for each one of us.