Evidence of meeting #23 for Status of Women in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was women.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Saman Ahsan  Executive Director, Girls Action Foundation
Juniper Glass  Director of Development, Girls Action Foundation
Paulette Senior  Chief Executive Officer, YWCA Canada
Farrah Todosichuk  Representative, YWCA Canada
Barbara Byers  Executive Vice-President, Canadian Labour Congress
Kathleen A. Lahey  Faculty of Law, Queen's University, As an Individual
Vicky Smallman  National Director, Women's and Human Rights Department, Canadian Labour Congress

3:55 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Irene Mathyssen

Thank you very much. I'm sorry, this first round is finished.

Unfortunately, our committee is being interrupted by a vote.

I would propose that questions be submitted to the clerk by all members of the committee who wish to do so. She will forward those questions to our witnesses and we'll get a written response back.

In terms of panel two, I would ask everyone to return to the committee room as soon as possible after the vote, and we'll start the committee as soon as we have quorum.

Is that agreeable?

4 p.m.

Conservative

Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Madam Chair, what are the parameters for submitting these questions in writing? What is the deadline? What is the timeframe? What are the rules?

4 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Irene Mathyssen

I would assume that since you're here, you have questions that you would like to ask.

Madam Clerk, would tomorrow be acceptable, or perhaps Wednesday?

Is end of day tomorrow acceptable?

4 p.m.

Conservative

Susan Truppe Conservative London North Centre, ON

Yes.

That's fine as far as the question goes. I think you're wondering if everybody has a certain allotted time, so if whichever party asks one simple question and then you get this big long answer back, it would never fit into, say, three minutes or five minutes or whatever it happens to be.

Otherwise, I'm okay with that.

4 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Irene Mathyssen

Very quickly, yes, Madam Freeman.

4 p.m.

NDP

Mylène Freeman NDP Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

Respectfully, if the answers include more information, I don't think that's a terrible thing.

That being said, we have our prepared questions, and it concerns the number of questions we would normally prepare for the kind of testimony we're hearing, about three or four per round, and we usually get around two rounds per panel. We're not going to submit 500 questions or something like that.

4 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Irene Mathyssen

Is that agreeable, that the opposition will submit about the same number of questions as they would in a usual committee hearing? I would expect the government members would do the same.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Susan Truppe Conservative London North Centre, ON

We're okay with the questions. But normally on these panels there's time for one question from each of them, and then we go on to the next panel. I would suspect, if you look at our last panel, there would be one question from each.

4 p.m.

NDP

Mylène Freeman NDP Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

No, we usually get about three questions, two rounds, if not four.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC

Madam Chair, a point of order.

4 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Irene Mathyssen

Yes, Mr. Albas.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC

The bells have rung, and I believe that committees are supposed to stop debating.

4 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Irene Mathyssen

Yes, I do understand that.

Have we agreement with regard to questions in writing to the clerk, so that's how we'll go about it?

4 p.m.

Conservative

Susan Truppe Conservative London North Centre, ON

Yes. If we have any other question on it, we can discuss it when we come back, because you're not going to have it until tomorrow anyway.

4 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Irene Mathyssen

All right. Thank you.

The meeting is suspended.

4:50 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Irene Mathyssen

We're ready to continue, and I would like to thank our witnesses for their indulgence in regard to the interruption.

I would like to begin with the witnesses so that we can hear from them and have as many questions as possible. We'll return to the issue of questions for the previous panel.

But at this point it's my privilege to welcome Ms. Byers, Ms. Smallman, and Professor Lahey. Welcome.

You have 10 minutes for the CLC and 10 minutes for Professor Lahey.

Ms. Byers, would you please begin.

4:50 p.m.

Barbara Byers Executive Vice-President, Canadian Labour Congress

Thank you on behalf of the 3.2 million members of the Canadian Labour Congress. As you know, our organization represents Canada's national and international unions, along with provincial and territorial federations of labour and 130 district labour councils. Our members work in virtually all sectors of the Canadian economy, in all occupations, in all parts of Canada.

If we want to improve the economic prospects for Canadian girls, then we need to take a close look at the economic reality for Canadian women. Women make up almost half of Canada's workforce. Women work in every sector of the economy, yet women still experience inequality and discrimination in society and in workplaces. The gap between women's and men's wages has been stuck between 70% to 72% for the last three decades. The gap is wider for older women, aboriginal women, disabled women, and racialized women.

Much of our employment remains concentrated in so-called female jobs, the service sector or the caring and helping professions. Women are still poorly represented in the skilled trades and in senior management positions. Women are much more likely than men to work part-time, to hold down more than one job, and to work in precarious jobs. This means there are more women working with fewer benefits and little or no workplace pensions.

Only 33% of unemployed women qualify for employment insurance benefits. If you don't qualify for EI, you don't have access to maternity, parental, compassionate, or sick leaves.

Women are under tremendous pressure to balance work and family life, whether it's caring for children, looking after aging, disabled, or sick relatives, or contributing to their community. Without strong public services, many women pay the price by interrupting their careers or settling for part-time or precarious work to make ends meet while caring for their family.

Now we are facing a climate of austerity, which threatens public sector jobs, a source of good jobs for women. The loss of these jobs will be devastating not only for the families that rely on them, but for the services that women across Canada depend on. That's the economic reality for women today, and it's going to become the reality for Canadian girls if we don't take concerted action.

Young women in Canada face an economic deck that seems to be stacked against them. You may hear from other witnesses about Canada's success in educating young women. What you might not hear is that gender equality in education does not necessarily lead to better opportunities for young women entering the workforce, nor does it seem to lead to improved economic prospects over their working lives. The reasons for this include high student debt, precarious work, lack of child care, and wage inequality.

We're recommending seven key areas where the government could act to improve economic prospects for Canadian girls.

First, address under-employment and precarious work. Canadian youth were and are among those most affected by the economic downturn and remain overwhelmingly better educated, badly paid, and under-employed. Women in Canada are much more likely than men to work part-time, hold down more than one job, and work in precarious jobs. And young women are among the most likely to work in part-time or temporary work.

While some may hold those jobs because they want to, still more are working more than full-time by combining more than one precarious job, or they would like to work more but cannot find affordable child care.

Girls and women need access to decent work—work that is productive and delivers a fair income—security in the workplace, and social protection for families, and they need better prospects for personal development and social integration. There needs to be freedom for people to express their concerns, to organize, and to participate in the decisions that affect their lives, and we need equality of opportunity and treatment for all women and men.

Our second recommendation is to close the wage gap. The government must implement the recommendations of the pay equity task force. We don't need to say any more than that.

Third, get serious about child care. Research has shown that investments in child care increase labour market participation, improve gross domestic product, and support vibrant local communities. Only one in five Canadian children has access to licensed regulated child care, yet 70% of Canadian mothers are in the paid workforce.

Something is wrong with this picture, and it can only be addressed if the federal government works with the provinces to establish a pan-Canadian early childhood education and care system that is non-profit, public, high-quality, accessible, inclusive, affordable, and provides adequate compensation to Quebec for the system it is already providing.

It's not just the right thing to do; it's the smart and fiscally responsible thing to do.

Fourth is to invest in public services. Privatization and contracting out of public sector jobs pose a threat to good stable jobs for women, and it is not fiscally responsible. The loss of public services in communities means young women end up taking on more and more unpaid work. It means less money in local economies. Now is not the time to be cutting back if we want to improve economic prospects for Canadian girls.

Five is to prioritize retirement security. Current debates over changes to public pensions and old age security are particularly troubling. While retirement security may appear to be of concern only to Canada's older population, it is the current generation of young and future workers who will be the most impacted by any changes. It is ironic that youth are being told it is in their interest to cut back on OAS when they are earning less for longer, are more in debt than ever before, and when it's clear that private savings schemes are not enough. It's not gold-plated to be able to retire in dignity, and it is unfair to take this very basic right away from young workers in the interest of short-term economic gain.

Six is to ensure access to education and training and reduce student debt. It's unacceptable that Canadian students need to take on a lifetime of debt to get an education, especially when those credentials don't mean better jobs after they graduate. Tuition fees in Canada have far exceeded the rate of inflation over the past two decades. Today average student debt now stands at $27,000. Because there is no coherent national policy for post-secondary education, policies dealing with access and funding differ dramatically from province to province. Canada-wide, almost 430,000 students were forced to borrow in order to finance their education. By 2013, Canadian student debt will hit $13 billion.

We must also consider increasing opportunities for young women to access skills training and embark on careers in trades and technology. The government can promote women in these career paths by supporting youth apprenticeship and school-to-work transition programs; funding employability training programs and bridging programs, which encourage women to retrain for work in trades and technology; and by supporting women's needs while they're in training or apprenticeship. Once they start their careers, we need to develop a workplace culture that supports women, accommodates work-life balance, and ensures that we include a gender focus in workforce development programs.

Seven is to address the disproportionate levels of poverty, unemployment, and violence among aboriginal women and women with disabilities. The challenges facing both of these vulnerable populations are well documented. Aboriginal girls and girls with disabilities would both benefit from better employment, equity policies and practices, specific programs for access to education, training, and employment, and a national action plan to end violence against women.

Finally, the text of this motion creating this study asks what changes can be made by Status of Women Canada to its approach. The most fundamental change that needs to be made is the approach to funding women's organizations. With no core funding and no funding for research, policy development, or advocacy, the ability for women's organizations to propose innovative solutions to improving economic realities for women and girls is seriously diminished. Funding for research and advocacy must be restored, and a lack of core funding needs to be addressed.

To improve economic prospects for Canadian girls, Canada needs to make a real commitment to women's equality. Our future depends on it.

Thank you. My apologies to the interpreters if I tore along.

5 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Irene Mathyssen

Thank you very much, Ms. Byers. You indeed have come under time, and we appreciate that. It leaves more time for questions.

Now, Professor Lahey, for 10 minutes, please.

March 12th, 2012 / 5 p.m.

Professor Kathleen A. Lahey Faculty of Law, Queen's University, As an Individual

Thank you very much for the invitation to speak to you today.

I consider this to be an auspicious beginning to a very important study by this committee, and I feel honoured to have an opportunity to share my own insights in this area with you.

I want to speak, first of all, to the point that there is a strong relationship between women's equality and girls' economic prospects. Just to emphasize how beyond question this connection is, I'd like to refer you to UNICEF's most recent report, which it published in 2010, on its policies relating to women's economic equality and the position and the prospects of both boys and girls. The report states that:

...gender equality among adults, expressed in equal enjoyment of rights and mutually respectful relationships in both the public and private spheres, provides an essential context in which girls and boys can learn the gender-equal attitudes and behaviours that will sustain human development and development goals.

This is a point that has been repeated by every major international organization and by countless studies and governments, and it is beyond question. I emphasize it here because it was articulated in the UNICEF report in the form of a commentary on the application of the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women, as well as in related international documents in the context of dealing with women's domestic equality.

I also wanted to start with this point because this committee is asking what steps can be taken to secure a prosperous future for girls in Canada. I would like to remind this committee that in fact Canada is the country perhaps best suited to answer that question, because Canada was the very first country to actually achieve high standing on the question of gender equality. Between 1975 and 1995, Canada took all the steps necessary to be ranked, for the second half of the 1990s, number one on the UN's gender-related development index.

Canada has walked this path before, and Canada has in the past catapulted women in Canada to positions of accelerated equality not seen in any country before or since. I also want to emphasize the position or the connection between women's equality and girls' economic prospects, because, unfortunately, since 2000, Canada has lost its world-renowned capacity to deliver women's equality.

Table 1, which is included in the brief I circulated for this hearing, demonstrates that since 2005 the status of women in Canada has fallen rapidly on all global indices and thus no longer provides the policy context, the social and economic context, that is necessary to raise gender-equal girls who can confidently look forward to safe and prosperous futures.

I have provided in table 1 the details of these rankings, because this is a very serious matter, which has been confirmed not only by the United Nations but also by Social Watch, a respected social-equality organization, and by the World Economic Forum, which is essentially concerned with matters economic. It documents that within a short 10-year period, Canada has fallen from number one, at the beginning of the 2000s, to number 18 on the UN index.

Women's equality responds quickly to changes in policies. I've included parallel data for Spain, a country that started out ranked number 21 when Canada was number one. If you follow down the column in table 1, you will see in fact that as Canada has fallen, Spain, simply by using the same policies Canada used between 1976 and 1995-2000, has managed to get itself close to the same position that Canada had achieved after its efforts.

So policies matter, and women's equality is incredibly fragile as well as being incredibly responsive to equality-promoting policies.

I would like to go on to my second point, which is to give you a bit of information about what has so damaged the status of women in Canada in such a short time. With respect to the economic position of women in Canada today, women perform approximately 45% of all paid work that goes on in Canada. This figure has not changed in 30 years, since this calculation has been made. At the same time, women continue to perform 64% of all unpaid work. Do the math. That has women doing more than all the work in the country, year in, year out. These two figures have not changed.

This is in exchange for 36% of total national market incomes. Women work more and get far less than men do. This is a position that has been virtually unchanged for the last 15 to 20 years and accounts for the deteriorating position of women. This has shown up in every facet of the fiscal, educational, social, and other systems in Canada.

I'd like to draw your attention to the data on women's full-time incomes as a percentage of men's, by educational level. It is true that it has been by dint of higher and further education that women in Canada have managed to make the great gains they did. But based on data produced by Statistics Canada in its publication “Women in Canada”, you can see that the gender gap for women with a university degree in Canada in 2000 was bigger than the gender gap for that same level of educational attainment in 1990.

My main recommendation is that this committee charge Status of Women Canada with responsibility for continuing the detailed work needed to track the gender impact of every single policy produced by the federal government.

Thank you.

5:10 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Irene Mathyssen

Thank you very much.

We'll begin the first round with the Conservative caucus.

Mr. Albas.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I appreciate the witnesses coming in today and having their presentations ready for us. It's great to see you can be participants in this study of ours.

Professor Lahey, in regard to your statistics outlining the involvement of women in various industries, I see that 7% of construction workers are women, 7% of those in trades and transportation are women, 22% of engineers are women, 21% of those in primary industries are women, and 31% of manufacturing workers are women. I was just wondering where you got your reference material.

5:10 p.m.

Prof. Kathleen A. Lahey

I can give the primary site, which is the paper I published in the Canadian Journal of Women and the Law, volume 22, year 2010, issue 1. These are all Statistic Canada's studies, every one of them.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC

Great. Do you know from which year this would have...?

5:10 p.m.

Prof. Kathleen A. Lahey

They're from various years. They were all done at different times. But they're the most recent data for every topic.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC

It's a wide area and there's a lot to know. I appreciate your raising some of this today, because I didn't have previous knowledge of women's participation in those industries.

Moving on to the Canadian Labour Congress, thank you for being here and making your presentation. Just for the record, it says in our briefing notes from the library that the Canadian Labour Congress is the “umbrella organization for dozens of affiliated Canadian and international unions, as well as provincial federations of labour and regional labour councils” and “represents the interests of more than three million affiliated workers”.

Do you have any stats that say how many of the workers you represent at the CLC are women?