Status of Women Committee on March 12th, 2012

[Barbara Byers]

It's more than half.

[Vicky Smallman, National Director, Women's and Human Rights Department, Canadian Labour Congress]

Yes, it's more than half. I think it actually might be closer to around 60% to 64%.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

In my particular area, before we had the financial crisis a few years ago, there was a lot of talk in British Columbia—that's where I'm from—as far as a skills and labour shortage was concerned. Recently a lot of press has been saying this is becoming a pressing issue. There have been a number of reports...that one of the most pressing issues facing executives across the country would seem to be a shortage of skilled labour.

According to a Globe and Mail C-Suite survey, two-thirds of executives say they are having difficulty finding qualified employees, and one-third are saying that labour shortage is getting so severe that it is preventing their company from growing as quickly as it could.

Have you been able to identify, in any of your work or your conversations with those you represent, that today's girls are less or more likely to be interested in a skilled trade?

[Barbara Byers]

Actually, a lot of work has been done by our affiliates, particularly in the construction trades, that do a lot of the training. In terms of outreach to young girls and women, generally, who are going into retraining, that kind of work is being done as well.

There's certainly the need; people want to get into the trades. Some of it is about not having, again, the financial access to be able to do it. Some of it is issues around child care. It's all those sorts of things. A couple of years ago, the CLC, along with the Canadian manufacturers and employers, developed a website around women and the trades specifically. So there are issues being taken on, on the question of women in trades and technology.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

I really appreciate your bringing that up.

You said there are different affiliates that have done research, and I understand—

[Barbara Byers]

They've done actual work of bringing women in.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Okay, they have actually done outreach work specifically.

Can you state for the record which ones those would be? Are they federal bodies or are they more provincial? Or are they just within a sector?

[Barbara Byers]

I think the ones that have done some significant work in particular in the area of the skilled trades would be the construction trade unions, because, again, they're the ones that are most heavily engaged in apprenticeship programs in terms of the work that's done.

The Ontario Federation of Labour, three or four years ago now, had a very good conference on women and the trades, where they brought in women from across Ontario who have worked in the trades, to try to figure out how to do the promotion. Some of the unions have specific conferences around women and trades specifically.

A few years ago I spoke at a conference called Sisters in the Brotherhood. It was from the United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America and Canada. There is certainly work that's being done, but there is more work that needs to be done, as we say.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Now, just so we don't forget, for the record, Madam Chair, you also mentioned there was a website, specifically, I think you said by an Ontario body that had created an outreach tool.

[Barbara Byers]

No. The Canadian Labour Congress, along with the Canadian Manufacturers' Association, did a...what the benefits are of employing women in the trades for employers, for unions, and also for women specifically.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Again, I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but you say there is quite a lot of outreach that is being done. However, there's more that needs to be done.

Specifically, let's go to the construction trades. What more can be done in that specific...to outreach? I know there are many mentorship programs that are available. What other suggestions would you have to help support those sectors to be able to draw more girls into the trades if they choose to do that?

[Barbara Byers]

I wouldn't say in terms of apprenticeship programs it's only about the construction industry, because certainly there are apprentices who move back and forth between the industrial sector, the public sector, and the construction industry.

As we pointed out, there are programs that need to be taken up in terms of supporting the work of the organizations that are bringing women in, whether they're young women or women going back for retraining. We need to support apprenticeship more in this country generally.

Again, I'm going to go back to some of the things that all women need in the workplace or as they're trying to enter the workplace. They need support for their education. They need support if they have children. They have to know that when they get out after investing in this education there's going to be a job that can support them and their families.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

I don't want to lose this thought.

[The Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

Sorry. That's it.

We go now to Madame Boutin-Sweet for seven minutes.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you to both of you. I greatly appreciated your presentations as well as your recommendations.

We are talking here about promoting, especially, the participation of girls in our society's economy. All the groups who spoke mentioned the need for financial equality between girls and boys. You may not have heard them all speaking earlier, but both groups of witnesses that we heard from before you mentioned it: there is no possible economic equality without equal pay.

Ms. Byers, you specifically mentioned that pay equity is a project that comes up often, but always ends up being set aside. In Quebec, pay equity is a done deal. I personally participated in it and I saw the results. It's not perfect, but it was brought in. It means that for equivalent work, men and women receive the same or similar wages.

You did not say very much about this because it seemed so obvious to you. However, I would like to hear your thoughts on this, please.

[Barbara Byers]

Well, the first thing we would say is adopt the pay equity task force recommendations from 2004. They are good recommendations. They will benefit women from coast to coast to coast.

When some of us in the room were younger activists—that would be me—things were going to be different after 10 years. But 30 years later we're sitting here and the gender pay gap is about where we were when some of us were much younger.

The reality is that it's not only about equal pay for equal work; it's about equal pay for work of equal value. That means we need to start to pay women for the value of their work rather than downgrading the pay because it is a female-dominated occupation. It makes a huge difference.

I remember years ago meeting a women who had won a similar pay argument at a hospital in Saskatchewan, and she talked about what the difference was for her. She could buy a small home for her and her two kids. It made a big difference, between what she was being paid before and what she was being paid in the new regime.

We didn't go into details, because quite frankly let's go back to 2004. Let's dust off that report. Let's make sure we implement it and then we lead the way.

We have to remember as well that women in the federal public sector have lost their rights on pay equity by the equitable compensation act, which is not going to be equitable and is not going to compensate people for what they need.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

People say that young women need to be more confident. If they were to earn the same wages as men do, that would be a good start.

You also said that women, since they often have precarious employment or part-time employment, are less well-paid, and that often, they do not have access to employment insurance and therefore cannot benefit from maternity leave, sick leave, etc. In your opinion, what could the federal government do to avoid leaving women behind once again, and to help them improve their situation?

[Barbara Byers]

We've been promoting for a long time.... As anybody who has been around Parliament will know, we've been promoting that the unemployment insurance system should be changed so there is a common access for the number of hours, which would be 360 hours for people to access it. That would mean that a lot of women and a lot of young people would be able to access unemployment insurance for short or longer periods of their unemployment.

That's a critical issue. When the system was changed from a weeks accumulation to an hours accumulation, I don't think anybody anticipated that the access hours were going to be set so high that people weren't going to be able to get into the system anymore. And that's quite clearly what it is.

Again, a number of years ago I had a women tell me that between her first child and her second child, when the system got changed, she no longer qualified as she would have if the system had stayed the way it was.

If we're going to do something, we would say decrease the number of hours that are needed to access EI, and then women will have better access to parental benefits.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you.

I am going to share the rest of my time with Ms. Freeman.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Thank you all so much for being here, and for all the great work you're doing, really. That goes to our witnesses from Girls Action Foundation and for the YWCA as well, since I didn't get a chance to tell you that earlier.

Professor Lahey, the World Bank has shown us that Canada is not doing as well as the other OECD countries when it comes to equality. I hope this question is as loaded as I intend it to be.

Can you explain why this is so, what it means to this committee's study, and what recommendations you can offer the federal government with regard to the economic prospects of women and girls?

[Prof. Kathleen A. Lahey]

Yes, easily.

Various factors have contributed to the increasing economic gap between women and men. In my brief, in section IX, “Denial of Support for Women's Economic Equality”, there is a summary statement that I think sheds a lot of light on what's been going on in Canada. It is a bit of a bean-counting answer, but this is where the answer lies. In this brief I have discussed a number of tax, benefit, and budgetary measures, all of which had a pronounced negative impact on women's economic equality in Canada. These items—

[The Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

I'm sorry, Professor. We'll have to allow the committee to look at that. The time is up, but I thank you.

I want to come back to the question regarding the submission of questions. First, the meeting of March 14 will be in room 160, 1 Wellington. Each member of the committee has received the excerpt from the Journals of the House of Commons regarding the main estimates that were referred to the committee. You received that March 1.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

Yes.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

I'm sorry that you rolled your eyes, but can we not carry this on after the witnesses have gone? There are only three minutes left and I'd really like to hear more questions while we still have the time.