Evidence of meeting #45 for Status of Women in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was harassment.
A video is available from Parliament.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON
It was mentioned that something could be provided to the committee thereafter. If we could have that as well, perhaps you could make a note. Thank you very much.
9:25 a.m.
Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
For the high-risk industries?
9:25 a.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Marie-Claude Morin
There is no problem. Thank you.
It is now Ms. Sgro's turn.
You have seven minutes.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
Thank you to our witnesses for coming this morning.
You can read all of these wonderful words and policies, and so on that get set up, which is what you're doing as far as the labour side of it, and then it's up to employers to come to you if they're having an issue, if there's been a complaint made to them that they can't resolve. You said that in five years you've only received two complaints. The employer has no time obligation to bring those complaints to you. Do I understand that?
9:25 a.m.
Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
It's actually the employees who can complain to us. If the employees are complaining to their employer, the employer, in setting up the policy, must provide an explicit explanation to employees of what to do if they encounter sexual harassment in the workplace. They would go to their employers. You're correct. The employees don't have to report back to us.
9:30 a.m.
Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
There were two complaints, and both were with respect to whether or not the employer had created a policy or posted a policy. When we went in to investigate, we found that in fact that wasn't the case, that there was a policy, or that the policy was posted. That's what we mean by the complaints having been unfounded.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
Does that not concern you, given the fact that Treasury Board had told us it was about 29% for complaints, and when we look at the statistics, the number of complaints of harassment, only two got to the labour board? Does that not raise a concern that there may be a bigger problem, that somehow there's a disconnect between the labour board in your program and various federal departments?
9:30 a.m.
Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
We make sure that we deliver our mandate appropriately and efficiently. In doing so, we live within the constraints of that mandate.
9:30 a.m.
Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
For part II, under occupational health and safety, the last review was in 2000. For part III, I believe it was in the mid-1980s. I don't have the specific date. I can come back to the committee with that specific date.
9:30 a.m.
Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
For part III.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
9:30 a.m.
Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
That speaks specifically to sexual harassment.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
Is the Canada Labour Code and the work that you've put together for all federally regulated employees?
9:30 a.m.
Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Indeed. All federally regulated employers and employees.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
Exactly.
Has the RCMP or employees of the RCMP ever been in contact with you or your department?
9:30 a.m.
Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
I would have to look into that. Specifically, they are covered under part II, occupational health and safety. They are not covered under part III of the code.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
You indicated that you've only had two complaints in the last five years, from 2007 to 2012. I assume then that you must not have received anything directly from the RCMP or it would have been reflected.
9:30 a.m.
Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
I can assure you that for the two complaints under part III, they could not have been made by the RCMP because they're not covered under part III.
9:30 a.m.
Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
They're not covered under part III, only under part II, occupational health and safety. For that, that's the violence prevention that encompasses sexual harassment but isn't specific to it.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
Yes, because I would find it difficult, when you talk about violence in the workplace and then you try to tie that in to sexual harassment, to see how people would view that.
It seems to me that your mandate really needs a very serious update to better reflect some of the challenges we're facing out there today, specifically for women, and the whole bullying and intimidation issues that aren't violence, as you would call violence in the workplace, but are intimidation and so on. A recommendation that I think the committee might want to make is that you update that. Certainly, it doesn't gel with the numbers we heard from Treasury Board as to what's really happening in various departments and agencies.
One of the smaller agencies we heard about had a 51% complaint ratio, yet none of them got to you. I guess that's not your role, unless the employers are going to come to you, and you've only had two complaints. I find it alarming. I mean, I don't want you to have a whole lot of complaints. I like to think of the federal service as being terrific, which it is, but any huge employer will have lots of challenges, and there are those that are unwarranted complaints. We all know about them, but there are lots of other complaints out there that are clearly warranted. I think if 5% come forward with complaints, it's probable there are 8% or 9% more that could. However, people do not jump into filing complaints against their employer easily. I think there has to be a very serious issue because, right off the bat, you know there is going to be an issue to do with your job future, no matter how much protection we might put down.
Everything sounds wonderful and reassuring in your policies. All the right words are there. We heard all the right words from Treasury Board last week, and yet there is still an alarming number of people coming forward. If 29% come forward, then there's another significant amount that aren't coming forward. It's a bit concerning as we move forward on this in trying to create that culture where people feel comfortable in an environment, because they would be more successful in their jobs if they felt more comfortable. You really don't cover that off when you talk about violence in the workplace.