You have one minute.
Evidence of meeting #66 for Status of Women in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was workplace.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #66 for Status of Women in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was workplace.
A video is available from Parliament.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON
Thank you.
Now, in an earlier question by my colleague, it was asked what sorts of action you encourage an individual to take. I didn't hear anything with regard to dealing with the situation at the lowest level possible. We've heard from previous witnesses that if you can nip it in the bud, deal with it at the lowest level as opposed to having to file a formal complaint, and so on....
When someone calls you, is that the first thing you do? Do you ask them whether they've tried to deal with it at the very lowest level within their own organization first? Is that something that you would promote?
11:45 a.m.
Director's Advisor, The Quebec Help and Information Centre on Harassment in the Workplace
The answer is yes. At the centre, we see the advantages of solving a problem internally. It is much faster and, generally, the person comes out of it less overwhelmed or hurt. If the person reported the harassment internally and if there was no response, that is almost inevitable because perhaps the person needs to try something else. If the person did not report it, it may still be a good idea to inform the employer of the situation so that they can take action.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Marie-Claude Morin
Thank you, Madam Viau.
We now move to Ms. Ashton.
You have five minutes.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill, MB
Madam Viau, your organization has been in existence since 1980. Do you know if you have ever received federal government funding?
11:45 a.m.
Director's Advisor, The Quebec Help and Information Centre on Harassment in the Workplace
No, not to my knowledge.
11:45 a.m.
Director's Advisor, The Quebec Help and Information Centre on Harassment in the Workplace
We also receive private donations, mostly from people who like the centre's mission or who know someone who has used our services. However, that does not make up the major part of our funding. That essentially comes from the Agence de la santé et des services sociaux de Montréal, which is a provincial body.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill, MB
Okay.
Can you tell us what the proportion of provincial funding is in relation to the private donations?
11:45 a.m.
Director's Advisor, The Quebec Help and Information Centre on Harassment in the Workplace
You mean our grant?
11:45 a.m.
Director's Advisor, The Quebec Help and Information Centre on Harassment in the Workplace
I do not have the exact figures, but without that funding, we would not be able to operate. I do not know exactly, but it is probably about 90% of our funding.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill, MB
Okay.
It is not that we want to find out how much your budget is. It is just that it would be useful for us to know what percentage of your grants comes from provincial sources.
Madam Viau, has your organization received complaints from women in police forces?
11:45 a.m.
Director's Advisor, The Quebec Help and Information Centre on Harassment in the Workplace
It is quite rare, but it has happened. I can think of one particular case. That client decided to come to our café-rencontres.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill, MB
Of course, we have met representatives from the RCMP. In the next hour, we are going to meet with someone from the Toronto police service. In this committee, we talk a lot about the culture of different environments.
Do you know why there is sexual harassment in some environments and why we do not hear a lot from the women who work in them?
11:45 a.m.
Director's Advisor, The Quebec Help and Information Centre on Harassment in the Workplace
We receive complaints from people working in non-traditional environments. Women are afraid to report situations. They already have the impression that they have to make a place for themselves in the environment. So, if they have to talk about sexual harassment as well, it becomes a little problematic.
We can see that concretely. In fact, we offer awareness sessions specifically with a women's centre that has a program for women working in non-traditional occupations. These are obstacles they face and that they reveal to us.
It is difficult to make a complaint, even in an environment where there are women. Actually, it is difficult in all environments. However, it is even more difficult for women in non-traditional environments when no one is listening.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill, MB
Okay, thank you.
My time for questions is coming to an end. So, Madam Viau, I would like to ask you if you have recommendations or suggestions for our committee. We are trying to give Status of Women Canada some direction in order to put an end to sexual harassment. From your provincial perspective, would you have recommendations for the federal level?
11:50 a.m.
Director's Advisor, The Quebec Help and Information Centre on Harassment in the Workplace
Yes. I think it would be a very good start if the federal level had a policy in which things were clearly defined, a policy that would include the definition of what sexual harassment is, as well as the time required. In fact, the policy must contain as much information as possible. Then, employees must be trained.
Certainly, it may well be that harassment does not stop in spite of all the efforts we have devoted to it, but at least we will have done our duty. We sincerely believe in education and awareness. The more it is talked about, the more people will think before they commit an act. Above all, if they see that their employers take it seriously, they will think twice before they do so.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Marie-Claude Morin
Thank you.
Thank you, Madam Viau.
We will now go to Ms. Ambler, who will have the last five minutes.
March 26th, 2013 / 11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Stella Ambler Conservative Mississauga South, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Viau, for coming to speak to us today.
I understand you've been working on this since 1980, so I congratulate you for really being on the leading edge of this problem and helping women and men who are victims of sexual harassment.
I also noted that in 2004 you expanded the definition based on demand and what you saw as a need to expand it to psychological harassment. This study is really about sexual harassment. I know it was almost 10 years ago now.
Could you give us some examples of psychological harassment versus sexual harassment? Can you tell us roughly, at this time, in 2013, the number of complaints, cases, or files, that you deal with? How many are now sexual harassment and how many are now psychological harassment?
11:50 a.m.
Director's Advisor, The Quebec Help and Information Centre on Harassment in the Workplace
I would say that sexual harassment still exists, but since the legislation went into effect in 2004, psychological harassment complaints have become something of an epidemic. Today, our group receives more psychological than sexual harassment complaints. I don't have the exact figures, but I would be happy to send them to the clerk. Psychological harassment complaints account for about 60% of all complaints, and sexual harassment complaints account for 40%.
You asked me to provide some examples to illustrate the difference between the two types of harassment. Sexual harassment involves sexual behaviour—be it sexist jokes, disturbing stares, comments or displayed pornographic material. Psychological harassment cases do not involve that sexual aspect. More specifically, you may have an employee being ignored by their employer, who moves on to someone else as soon as the person wants to share an idea in a team meeting. The employer may throw papers at them. The employer may not even say hello to them or may isolate them from their colleagues. In those cases, the sexual aspect is definitely absent, but there are still long-term consequences for the individual. The harasser uses their power over a person to humiliate and belittle them, and that behaviour can take a variety of forms. Harassment even occurs among colleagues, and I can tell you that they can be pretty creative in their attacks.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Stella Ambler Conservative Mississauga South, ON
It seems to me, in principle, that there shouldn't be any more psychological harassment against women than against men. I also suspect you're going to tell me that more women experience and/or report psychological harassment. What is the reason that not as many men experience or report psychological harassment?
11:55 a.m.
Director's Advisor, The Quebec Help and Information Centre on Harassment in the Workplace
That actually depends on the environment. Today, I can tell you about our group's reality. We do not deal with all the cases, but most of them involve women—regardless of whether we are talking about sexual or psychological harassment.
Why would women be victims of harassment more than men? I think that depends on the environment in the case of psychological harassment. Women are not necessarily subjected to psychological harassment more. That depends on factors such as their economic status, their financial dependence or independence and the team they work with, in situations where the woman is very competitive, for instance.
It also depends on the individual. Harassment has to do with the harasser and not the victim. Many factors can contribute to harassment. I could not tell you why exactly that's the case, but that is what our group has noted.