Status of Women Committee on March 26th, 2013

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Does culture, the workplace culture, play a role?

[Madam Cindy Viau]

There are certainly sectors where people have just arrived from elsewhere and where they are less familiar with their rights, or less informed about them. In situations like that, some people may decide to take advantage of them. We have seen cases like that, but it can also happen in many places where culture is not a factor. So it can play a role.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Do you work with federal employees?

[Madam Cindy Viau]

Among our clients, I have to say that it is quite rare. Most of our clients are provincial employees.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

If you get federal employees, do you send them somewhere else? Is the process different?

[Madam Cindy Viau]

No, the process is the same. We would still offer moral support. We would try to inform them about their rights. We would encourage them to complain about the situation so that the employer has the opportunity to do something. But when it is an internal situation, it is more difficult for us to deal with it. Often, we try to establish a relationship with the appropriate manager or human resources department in order to steer the person towards those internal resources.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Do you have a recommendation? You said that it is sometimes more difficult to come together. Do you have a recommendation that would help with that situation?

[Madam Cindy Viau]

I am sorry, you say “come together”, but with whom exactly? With the clients?

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

If an employee is being sexually harassed in a federal workplace and providing assistance for that employee is an obstacle for you, do you have a suggested recommendation that would provide that employee with better assistance?

[Madam Cindy Viau]

Yes. Actually, the broad thrust of our recommendations, for federal or provincial levels equally, is to really listen to the people and to try, if possible, to make sure that they are safe and cared for, even before conducting an investigation, let's say. The fact that these people are talking to us, and telling us that something is going on in their workplace, means that they have to be taken seriously even if we discover later that, legally, it is not sexual harassment in the workplace.

You have to check with each person to see if they have ideas for remedying the situation. We have found that that is often the case. What most people want is to work in peace and not be subject to harassment at work.

In my opinion, we must always maintain close contact with the clients so that they do not feel abandoned or neglected. It takes a lot of courage to complain about a harassment situation. We see that every day at the centre. People are afraid of being labeled. Women especially are afraid of being labeled as “big troublemakers”.

So telling people in that situation that they are right to come to talk to us, and that we are going to do what we can to help them, means a lot to them.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

Ms. Ashton, you have one minute left.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Do you have any figures for us on the percentages of employees who experience sexual harassment in the private sector versus the public sector, so that we can compare?

[Madam Cindy Viau]

We do not have figures that would allow a detailed comparison. However, in 2012, our centre's support and information department handled 337 files. Of those, 23 individual files were transferred to the legal department. You have to understand that, for each file, the caseworkers work with insurance companies and the Commission de la santé et de la sécurité du travail. The caseworkers can also be called upon to defend the case at the Commission des normes du travail and, less commonly, at the Commission des droits de la personne. So four sub-files can be associated with just one file. Those are our internal statistics. Each year, if I am not mistaken, about 6,000 people call us.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

Madam Viau, I am going to have to stop you there because Ms. Ashton's time is up. In terms of your statistics, we could perhaps ask our clerk to be in touch with you about them. It could be very interesting for our analysts to have those documents if you are willing to send them to us. Thank you.

We now move to Ms. O'Neill Gordon, for seven minutes.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the witness for participating in our session today. You certainly are providing a valuable service.

When you are assisting someone with a complaint of harassment in the workplace, what is your role? For example, do you provide information to the individual for legal assistance as well? What is your role?

[Madam Cindy Viau]

Our role is really to provide direct assistance to the victim. We are there to provide information so that people are aware of the possibilities open to them. We do not always file an official complaint. As I was saying earlier, we can send a letter to the employer or we can provide people with moral support.

Generally speaking, when people come to see us, they know what they want. Some tell us that they are not interested in registering a complaint, but they want to talk about their situation with someone who understands them. The support and information department will look after that side of things.

The caseworkers actually have a big job, to put all the possibilities on the table and to provide people with sound information so they can make informed decisions.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Do you intervene on behalf of the individual against the employer?

[Madam Cindy Viau]

No. The individuals do that, but we are there with them throughout the process.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

When it comes to restoring the workplace, what sort of actions do you encourage an individual to take? Do you encourage training? What kind of training? Can you elaborate on that a bit?

[Madam Cindy Viau]

Yes. Actually, training is always a good idea. At the centre, we feel that it is very important. We see a difference in workplaces when employers call us. We also encourage the establishment of clear policies that tell people to whom the complaint will go, who will deal with it, and the time that will be required. So the result is that people do not feel abandoned. Since it is their complaint, it is very important that victims of workplace harassment are aware of the details. It is unacceptable for an employer to call no one for two months after a complaint has been registered. People are beset by anxiety. They are not well. If they are not on sick leave as they wait for news from their employer, they can hardly do their work.

So training is necessary and it must go hand in hand with the policy. Training can be provided about what is in the policy and can keep dealing with the basics. For example, it can review what workplace harassment is. It can deal with what employees must do if they think that they are victims of harassment. Sometimes, it is quite simple. But we know that employees are aware of the policy and, at the same time, that the employer is acting on his obligation to provide a safe workplace.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Do you ever advise them to obtain a lawyer, or do you encourage the use of mediation services at any time, or is it all done with your group?

[Madam Cindy Viau]

Actually, the centre frequently works with mediators. Quebec's Commission des normes du travail provides a mediation service, for example. So we go to represent the employee and the employer goes with his lawyer. When the cases are very complex or when there is a sexual assault or some criminal element, the file is referred to the police or to the appropriate authorities. Sometimes a specialist lawyer may be involved, depending on the situation.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

The other half of what you do is to work with employers to help them develop their workplace sexual harassment policies. This is a good idea as well. Do you actively seek organizations who need a policy update, or do they always come to you for assistance and information?

[Madam Cindy Viau]

Organizations come to us. So it really is by request. We help them to develop their policies. Sometimes, it is a question of revising them and submitting them to the manager. But employers always come to us to get that assistance.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

In the process, would you make recommendations relating to workplace training to encourage them to provide training? Is that part of your objective as well?