Status of Women Committee on April 18th, 2013

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Welcome to meeting number 68 of the Standing Committee on the Status of Women, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), study of sexual harassment in the federal workplace.

We have witnesses today from the Canadian Forces Provost Marshal. Lieutenant-Colonel Legere, chief of staff, Canadian Forces Military Police Group, and Major Tim Langlois, legal officer, Office of the Judge Advocate General, Directorate of Law, Military Justice Operations, welcome to our committee. We are very pleased that you accepted our invitation to come and speak to the committee today.

You each have 10 minutes for your remarks, and they will be followed by questions from the committee.

Lieutenant-Colonel Legere, would you like to begin?

[LCol J.A. Legere, Chief of Staff, Canadian Forces Military Police Group, Canadian Forces Provost Marshal]

Good morning, Madam Chair and members of the committee.

I am here today with Major Langlois. He is the legal advisor to the Canadian Forces provost marshal and the commander of the Canadian Forces Military Police Group. He is assigned to the Military Police Group and reports to the director law, military justice operations division of the judge advocate general. His mandate is to provide legal advice and guidance to the provost marshal and his staff.

I am the chief of staff of the Canadian Forces Military Police Group. I am responsible for the effective and efficient operation of the Military Police Group headquarters and for all military and civilian staff assigned thereto. I am also the headquarters commanding officer.

I would like to start by telling you about the military police, our organizational structure and role, mandate, and authorities within the Department of National Defence, the Canadian Armed Forces, and the military justice system. I will then endeavour to explain our role, or more specifically our lack thereof, in the investigation of sexual harassment cases within the Canadian Armed Forces.

I will cover the determination of whether an incident is handled administratively as sexual harassment or through disciplinary means in accordance with the code of service discipline and our role in that determination, and the military police role in the investigation of sexual misconduct.

Finally, I know you have also asked for information on how sexual harassment is addressed when there is a complaint from a member of the military police, or against a member of the military police. I will address this as well.

The Canadian Forces Military Police is the police force jurisdiction for the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces. We derive our authority from section 156 of the National Defence Act. Military police are also recognized as peace officers in section 2 of the Criminal Code of Canada, when performing their policing functions and duties.

Military police are members of the Canadian Armed Forces and receive common military skills training like every other Canadian Forces member. We also receive the same kind of specialist police training as other police forces in Canada. As such, military police are fully trained and empowered to investigate crimes of a sexual nature.

In short, military police are dual professionals; that is, we are members of both the profession of arms and the law enforcement profession. We are subject to the same administrative and disciplinary policies and procedures as every other member of the Canadian Forces. Additionally, we are subject to the military police code of professional conduct both on and off duty.

The provost marshal is the chief of police for the military police. He has two main roles.

First, as the Canadian Forces Provost Marshal, he is responsible for all investigations conducted by military police; the establishment of selection and training standards applicable to candidates for the military police, and ensuring compliance with those standards; the establishment of training and professional standards applicable to the military police and ensuring compliance with those standards; and investigations in respect of conduct that is inconsistent with the professional standards applicable to the military police or the military police professional code of conduct.

Second, as of April 1, 2011, he is also the commander of the Canadian Forces military police group, and as such, he commands all military police members who conduct policing duties and functions. This is an important and relatively recent development that enhances the independence of military police investigations and ensures there is no real or perceived influence by the chain of command therein.

As a formation commander, he is responsible for enforcing the code of service discipline and all other Canadian Armed Forces orders, regulations, policies, and directives, including the Treasury Board policy and defence administrative order and directive on harassment.

There are approximately 1,500 regular force military police personnel within the Canadian Armed Forces, both officers and non-commissioned members, and approximately another 400 reserve force military police members. They're stationed across Canada and around the world.

I thought this committee might also be interested in the gender distribution of the military police. As of December 2012, 12.8% of military police non-commissioned members are female, which is on par with the 13.1% female population within the Canadian Armed Forces non-commissioned members. For officers, 20% of military police officers are female, which is slightly higher than the 16.8% female population within the Canadian Armed Forces.

The Canadian Forces Military Police Group has its headquarters here in Ottawa and has seven subformations which are: the Naval Military Police Group; the Land Force Military Police Group; the Air Force Military Police Group; the Special Operations Forces Military Police Unit; the Military Police Services Group; the Canadian Forces Military Police Academy; and the Canadian Forces National Investigation Service. I will expand on their role specifically.

The Canadian Forces National Investigation Service has the mandate to investigate serious and sensitive matters related to the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces, similar to a major crimes unit in civilian police services.

When the Canadian Forces National Investigation Service was established in 1997 with a mandate to investigate those matters related to the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces, one of the particular areas that automatically came under their purview was sexual assaults. The military police investigate disciplinary and criminal offences—they are offences found within the code of service discipline as well as those offences found in other statutes, such as the Criminal Code of Canada—pursuant to section 130 of the National Defence Act.

In doing so, it is our role to determine the facts of the case based upon on the elements of the offence.

Sexual harassment is dealt with administratively in accordance with Canadian Forces and Treasury Board policy; as such, it is up to the commanding officer of the unit to investigate the matter and take administrative action as deemed appropriate.

These types of cases are very fact-dependent, and a careful analysis of these facts will help to determine whether a matter should be handled through administrative or disciplinary means. After the initial analysis, if doubt still exists, it is the commanding officer's responsibility to obtain legal and/or military police advice before taking any action.

At this point it is important to ensure the distinctions made between criminal or disciplinary matters and those behaviours that fall more appropriately in the administrative realm.

Where a behaviour falls into the categories of service offences contrary to the code of service discipline, or crimes such as criminal harassment or sexual assault, the military police will investigate. Essentially, when it's alleged that behaviour has gone beyond gestures or comments, or that someone has been assaulted in circumstances of a sexual nature, then that is when the police investigation will occur.

As you heard from the director general of military personnel, sexual misconduct constitutes behaviour that is sexual in nature and constitutes an offence under the Criminal Code of Canada or the code of service discipline. This behaviour includes offences such as sexual assault, indecent exposure, voyeurism, and acts involving child pornography. Should these offences be alleged to have occurred, the military police will investigate.

The Canadian Forces and the military police take all allegations of sexual offences by Canadian Forces personnel seriously and, in all cases, investigations are conducted to determine the facts, analyze the evidence and, if warranted, lay appropriate charges.

I would also like to point out that the Military Police Group has a wide-ranging victim services program that puts the highest priority on support to victims and provides support and referrals to other services as required, including the Canadian Forces health services, Canadian Forces member assistance program, military chaplains, military family resource centres, and even civilian social services.

Returning to the subject of this committee's study, as you have heard from other representatives from the Department of National Defence, harassment is any improper conduct by an individual that is directed at and offensive to another person or persons in the workplace, and that the individual knew or ought reasonably to have known would cause offence or harm. It comprises any objectionable act, comment or display that demeans, belittles or causes personal humiliation or embarrassment, and any act of intimidation or threat.

There is no definition or policy specifically for sexual harassment. It is covered under the Treasury Board policy.

The military police, like all other Canadian Armed Forces personnel, are subject to these regulations, orders, and policies. I will tell you categorically that harassment in any form, sexual or otherwise, is not tolerated within the Canadian Forces Military Police Group.

This concludes my statement. I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much Lieutenant-Colonel Legere.

We'll now turn it over to Major Tim Langlois for 10 minutes.

[LCol J.A. Legere]

Major Langlois does not have a statement.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

That's even better. It gives us more opportunity for questions. Thank you both very much.

We'll turn it over to Ms. Truppe for seven minutes.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for coming today.

Your comments are very important to us so we appreciate your taking the time.

Maybe I should ask you first about the policy. In the policy you have on workplace harassment, I think you said you follow the same standards as Treasury Board, if I'm not mistaken.

Could you walk me through who's responsible for the maintenance of a harassment-free workplace? What is the series of events that goes on to make sure that senior members versus regular members are trained? Is there training that goes on once a month or every six months or just on arrival? How does that work in your field?

[LCol J.A. Legere]

Thank you for the question.

Really, the harassment policy for the Canadian Forces lies within the director general of military careers and chief of military personnel command, so I really don't deal with the establishment of those policies or the establishment of training centres. What I can tell you is that harassment and treatment of persons with dignity and respect is certainly covered in our basic training within the military police, and it's reinforced at every level of training and certainly within the supervisory roles of the military police.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

I think you said that if there was a sexual harassment incident it would go to the officer of the unit first. I think that's what you said. Could you take us through the steps? If someone, a member, is sexually harassed, what are the steps that are taken? What are the options that a member has?

[LCol J.A. Legere]

I'll speak for my headquarters. If there is a circumstance where somebody feels that he or she has been sexually harassed, that person should report it to his or her supervisor. That supervisor has an obligation, particularly if they're military, under QR&Os 4.02 and 5.0 to report any incident of wrongdoing. It's drilled into our rules and regulations.

Once that complaint is received, we have a duty to act. I have an obligation as commanding officer to act. I will call together an investigation. We have harassment advisers within the unit who help the commanding officer decide on the best course of action and certainly an administrative investigation will take place to determine the facts and the appropriate measures.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Can they go to the harassment adviser first? What if they don't feel like going to their officer? Suppose the officer was the one they're complaining about. What happens then?

[LCol J.A. Legere]

There are numerous vehicles or means to make a complaint. If they don't feel comfortable going to their supervisor, what they should do is go to the next level of supervision, i.e., that supervisor's supervisor. They can certainly go to the harassment adviser for the unit, who again has an obligation to act and to report any conduct of that nature to the commanding officer.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

What about tracking? How do you track, for example, how many sexual harassment grievances or reports you've had? Is that tracked? How do you track it? Is it something online or is it just verbal?

[LCol J.A. Legere]

I don't track, and we in the military police don't track, incidents of sexual harassment or harassment. The chief military personnel does the tracking of that. They have a tracking system. The specifics of that I really can't get into. It's not within my realm. However, I've been the commanding officer of headquarters now for almost two years and I've seen no incidents of sexual harassment, and certainly no trends to indicate that we have a problem.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Right. How would you address situations in which the employee has experienced sexual harassment at the hands of a client or member of the public? How does the way you address the incident change versus an incident involving someone in your unit? What if the member who has been sexually harassed is in your unit but the harasser is not in your unit or in your area? It might be a civilian.

[LCol J.A. Legere]

Again, I think we would look at that incident and we would contact the other unit and communicate with that other unit to ensure that the behaviour is corrected and that the facts of the case are investigated and appropriate action is taken.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

We've had a number of witnesses for this study highlight the importance of leadership and culture in the prevention of sexual harassment in the workplace. Has your organization taken any steps to promote healthy behaviours in the workplace, aside from the training that you give them? Is there something else that you do for them? Are there any online tools, for example? Some of the other federal organizations that we've had here have online training that they can go to once a month or once every two months. There's other training in person that's provided as well.

[LCol J.A. Legere]

I'm not aware of any online tools right now. I do know there is training available. I think the director general military careers or the chief military personnel might be better suited to answer that question. I can tell you that when I first got there at the headquarters in 2011, I issued my initial guidance. In that guidance, we stated categorically that all persons will be treated with dignity and respect. We review that from time to time. The new people coming into my headquarters will receive a copy of my initial guidance. It's part of our day-to-day culture.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Right. I'm sure it is part of the culture, too. I find this with some of the other witnesses. I know from working in different areas previous to this that you go to the conference or you get the training, but then you don't really look at it anymore.

Is there a way that you could follow up to make sure that this is always embedded in their minds?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Make this a short answer, sir.

[LCol J.A. Legere]

What I can tell you is that there are defence administrative orders and directives on harassment, and people are encouraged to review those policies on a yearly basis.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Ashton and Ms. Day are splitting their time.

Ms. Ashton.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

I'd like to pass the microphone to my colleague.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you for giving me the floor.

I would like to table a motion. Personally and on behalf of the NDP, I would like to remind the committee that it is our duty to ensure that government policies are fair and equitable for all Canadians. I would also like to remind everyone that the Standing Committee on the Status of Women must always have the status of Canadian women at the heart of our concerns.

A recent study, which concerns me greatly, states that the employment insurance reform will penalize even more women than men. The numbers are clear. In the early 1990s, 95% of unemployed individuals received employment insurance benefits. In 2010, 66% of men who lost their jobs received benefits, while only 54.7% of women did.

The situation is expected to worsen with the introduction of the current reform. The difference compared with the situation in the 1990s is 12%.

The members of this committee must recognize that Canadian women earn less than men. Immigrant women and women belonging to visible minorities are disproportionately represented in low-quality jobs. Women make up two-thirds of people working part time. They are often concentrated in vulnerable and seasonal employment sectors.

With a view to fostering a better match between good, well-paying jobs and women able to work, while ensuring better economic growth and optimal conditions for ensuring that Canadian women are reaching their full potential on the labour market, personally and on behalf of the NDP, I would like to table the following motion:

That the Committee conduct a study, following the current study, on the impacts of Employment Insurance reform implemented in spring 2012, on women's social and economic situations and particularly on immigrant women, aboriginal women, part-time workers and single parents.

Madam Chair, thank you for giving me this time. I will give Ms. Ashton the floor later.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You've introduced the motion. Are you asking that we discuss this now or at a later date?

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I would like us to discuss it now, Madam Chair.