Status of Women Committee on April 18th, 2013

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I'm sorry, but the time is up.

Commissioner Lewis, do you want to quickly try to answer the question?

[Commr Chris D. Lewis]

I can't say that we have never considered it, because I don't know what's happened prior to my being at the executive level. It currently does not exist, but it generally is viewed as something to avoid. As I said, we keep track of trends, and what happens and what's viewed as being x or y and what's not. That one would be viewed, in a direct reporting relationship, as harassment. It may be just a case of saying it's unwelcome and please don't do it.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you, Commissioner Lewis.

Ms. Morin.

[Isabelle Morin, NDP, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Thank you very much.

Thank you for coming to testify before the committee today.

I also wanted to tell you that all the measures you have implemented to reduce obstacles so that women can work for the OPP are very interesting to me.

That said, the study is really on sexual harassment and not recruiting women. It seems that before your appearance here, it was fairly difficult for us to find information on the number of sexual harassment or harassment complaints within the OPP. The same is true for information about how those complaints are dealt with. You told us in your presentation that there were 78 complaints in 2012 and that, by process of elimination, you were able to establish that 10 cases were founded. I would like to ask you a few questions about that.

First, I would like to know why it is so difficult to find information about the complaints you received and why you do not make them more public.

Second, you said that individuals had shared certain concerns with you, but had not necessarily filed a complaint. I would like to know if you know how many cases like this there are. I would also like to know what steps are involved in dealing with these complaints. I think I understand that the committee for promoting respect in the workplace, which you spoke about earlier, plays a large role in dealing with complaints. Regardless, I would like to know how exactly a complaint is handled once it has been received.

If I have any time left, I have other questions.

[Commr Chris D. Lewis]

Thank you for that.

First of all, in 2012, there were 118 complaints as opposed to 78. Why that isn't put out publicly—obviously we never put out names; that goes without saying—and why we don't put out stats if we're asked by government organizations, I don't know. I don't think we have anything to hide. It's a good question. I don't have an answer to it. There may be some legal reason I'm not aware of. I certainly will find that out.

The second part of your question was whether we keep stats on people who have just raised concerns. I believe we do. I'm not sure how they interplay with that 118 figure I gave you. I don't really know but I will find that out as well. I can get that back to the clerk.

[Isabelle Morin, NDP, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Thank you very much.

[Commr Chris D. Lewis]

Your last question, I'm sorry, the third part was—

[Isabelle Morin, NDP, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

I would like to know how complaints are dealt with, who handles them. You spoke about a reasonable time frame, but I want to know what happens to the victim once you have received the complaint.

[Commr Chris D. Lewis]

Once it's filed it goes right to that area within our career development bureau in our human resources section to an area where that's all they do in their work. I shouldn't say that's all they do, but it's a big part of what they do. Sometimes it's very obvious that it is fairly minor, to use that word, even though some would say none of it's ever minor. Sometimes it's very obvious that it's more severe. It may even be criminal harassment like actually following someone around or something like that. Depending on the decision then in terms of can it be handled in a more informal way versus to go for full investigation, that decision is made. If it goes for a full disciplinary investigation there may be charges laid and then it would go to our professional standards bureau, but the stats and the tracking are still kept in the human resources section.

If there's a grey area there and they're not sure, the two entities meet and they make a decision based on past practices and experience. They will then have a discussion as to who is going to handle this: is it a WDHP complaint that can be resolved, or is this clearly something that violates a code of discipline where they may have to be demoted, or potentially cede their job, or there may be a criminal charge of some sort. But the narrow part of the hourglass becomes still our human resources section within our career development bureau. That's always the go-to place.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you, Ms. Morin. I'm sorry, five minutes does seem to go very quickly at this point.

Commissioner Lewis, thank you so much for your answers. You've been very helpful. It's a good example and it's nice to see very positive things coming out of something as important as the Ontario Provincial Police.

[Commr Chris D. Lewis]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the committee.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much for coming.

The meeting is over for today. Thank you to all.

The meeting is adjourned.