I have a nuanced answer.
Evidence of meeting #87 for Status of Women in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was victims.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #87 for Status of Women in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was victims.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:45 a.m.
Senior Director, Legal Services, Native Women's Association of Canada
I have a nuanced answer.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON
Okay.
Now I'll turn to the third lady—I'm not sure of your name.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Roxana, do you think that policy should be set by people who have lived experience or not?
11:45 a.m.
Staff Lawyer, Women's Legal Education and Action Fund
I also have a nuanced answer to that.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON
What I've heard here today is—I'm going to be honest—deeply upsetting. It's deeply upsetting what you have put forward.
We've had victims sit in this chair.... There is the senator whose daughter was raped and murdered, who comes to this with a very personal perspective. These victims have testified that this bill needs to be passed with no amendments.
I'm curious. You keep going into the prevention end of things. A thousand per cent, you need prevention. A thousand per cent, you need that. That's not what we're talking about today. We're talking about a bill that will help victims, and it's shameful what you have said here today on behalf of these victims.
November 23rd, 2023 / 11:45 a.m.
Liberal
Marc Serré Liberal Nickel Belt, ON
I have a point of order, Madam Chair.
Madam Chair, I just want to ask this: Do we have any witnesses coming to the committee who are indigenous women? Do we have any witnesses coming to the committee who are Black women?
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio
We have requested....
That's not a point of order, specifically. I appreciate that.
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
Lisa Hepfner Liberal Hamilton Mountain, ON
I just want to point out that we have witnesses here today who work on the front lines and who live this, probably, every day of their lives. They are listening to victims every day, and I think it's really insulting to not even listen to an answer.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio
The chair has the floor.
Let's just have respectful language. That is what I ask. I recognize that we come to this with a lot of passion. We may come from very different, opposing sides on this issue. I respect that, but let's just ensure that we get the right testimony out here.
Michelle, you can continue with your time.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON
Thank you.
I do not disrespect the work you do. It just feels very....
It is shameful what they've said, so I would like to read into the record what the victims have said.
This is from Martine Jeansen: “I'm telling you that the group of 100 women and everyone we work with, they're just waiting for you to accept the bill. They're just waiting for that. This group is still there. We're talking and they're there: 'Martine, are we going forward? Martine, where are we now?' ”
This is from Martine as well: “We go to the women who don't want to report abusers. However, if they know they're going to be listened to, if we start to see that electronic bracelets are being put on and if we start to see there are judgments in favour of women, they will tell themselves that if they speak, we will put a bracelet on the aggressor so he will not come back to attack her afterwards.' ”
I think what I hear that I'm saying is shameful.... It's not personal: It's that you're saying criminals are allowed to walk free. What about the women and children who are sitting at home, terrified, right now? Their attacker is at large. Because of the Liberal Bill C-5, you can serve a sentence for a violent crime, a gun crime, under house arrest. These children, these women, are living in fear, and there is a very small window for when you can do this. That's what this bill does. That is what I'm saying about how it feels shameful what you've said to these victims today. I know the work you do. Elizabeth Fry does amazing work in my community, but what you've said today feels insulting.
The prevention end of it is critical, 100%, and that's not what this legislation is. Do we need to teach men how to be kind? Do we need to teach the difference between violence and anger? Yes. Do we need to teach all of those things? We do, 100%, but if you don't see the value, in that this bill will protect women and children today, then we have a very strong disagreement.
Thank you, Madam Chair. There are no real questions except this: Are they going to support this legislation, yes or no? That would be my final question for everyone.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio
We'll start.
We have Emilie and then Sarah, followed by Roxana.
11:45 a.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies
I want to say that we are on the same side. We are a 100% on the same side, and it is shameful that there is an epidemic of intimate partner violence in this country, and we all want to do something about it. I simply bring the voices of the criminalized women and gender-diverse people that I work with to these tables, because they're often forgotten and they are the most victimized vulnerable people in our community.
11:50 a.m.
Senior Director, Legal Services, Native Women's Association of Canada
It's our understanding that NWAC was invited here today so that this committee could hear the perspectives of the disproportionately impacted indigenous women. If you want to hear how this bill will impact indigenous women, then my comments are that they won't be able to access it and they won't be able to benefit from the intended outcomes of this bill unless you consider making amendments that tailor it to their identities as indigenous women.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio
Thank you very much.
That was the end of the five minutes. We are going to suspend to allow us to vote. Then we'll be coming back and continuing with our round. We're suspended until everybody has voted.
11:56 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio
We're reconvening. Thank you, everybody.
We've all had the opportunity to vote. We're going to start the clock now.
I'm going to pass it over to Anita for five minutes.
11:56 a.m.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
First of all, I think we would all like to respect the expertise you are bringing here and thank you for coming and providing that to us.
Ms. Niman and Ms. Parsa, when you were presented with a binary yes-or-no 10-second question—which I think is unfair to ask witnesses—you said that you had a more nuanced response. I would ask both of you to give us your nuanced response.