Evidence of meeting #28 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was agency.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Helena Borges  Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport
Alain Langlois  Legal Counsel, Legal Services, Department of Transport
Brigita Gravitis-Beck  Director General, Air Policy, Department of Transport

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Thank you and good afternoon.

This is the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, meeting number 28. The orders of the day, pursuant to the order of reference of Thursday, September 21, 2006, are for clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-11, An Act to amend the Canada Transportation Act and the Railway Safety Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.

We have our witnesses joining us again today. I don't think I need to introduce everyone. I think everyone is familiar. Welcome again today.

(On clause 11)

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

At the end of the last meeting we were doing clause-by-clause consideration of clause 11. We had heard the amendment presented by Mr. Bell, which is in your schedule. It is page 13 of your sheet. We were discussing the amendment proposed by Mr. Bell. We can continue from that point forward.

Mr. Bell, do you want to...?

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Don Bell Liberal North Vancouver, BC

I'm going to share my time with Mr. McGuinty. There, I've shared it.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Go ahead, Mr. McGuinty.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON

Sorry, Mr. Chairman. I apologize. I wasn't at the last meeting. What's the status?

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Basically, some people have spoken on the bill. We would open the floor if there are any other comments.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON

May I?

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Yes, please.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, colleagues.

I was hoping the committee would be able to consider the amendments on pages 13 and 13.1 in tandem, Mr. Chair, because they are linked to the overall reporting requirements of the department and the minister--well, the minister first and the department second, I suppose.

It is a proposal that we vary the reporting requirements by maintaining the minister's responsibility to keep annual the review of the overall goings-on of the transport sector in the country, as opposed to every three years, which is what is proposed in the bill.

There are a few reasons that I think this is important for us to consider. One is it's clear to all of us as MPs and as Canadians that we're seeing increasing evidence of stressors and evidence of infrastructure deficits right across the country in federal, provincial, and municipal infrastructure settings. In fact, it's becoming a bit of an egregious problem for Canadians.

The second reason I think it's important is that Canada is urbanizing faster than we ever expected it to; in 100 years we've really gone from a 10% urban society to an almost 90% urban society. The transport infrastructure in particular, then, is going to be increasingly put to the test. We're seeing an increased incidence of flights, so much so that many of my neighbours describe our modern airports as modern bus stations. I think it might be helpful for Canadians if there were a yearly opportunity for us as MPs and for Canadians generally to be informed of the overall situation and status of transport in the country.

I'm also proposing here, Mr. Chair, in amendment L-1.1, taking into consideration the onerous nature of this annual report--which I assume is the rationale for moving from one year to three years--that more emphasis be placed on a fifth-year report every five years. Under amendment L-1.1, the minister would expand the scope of the report to look at some longer-term perspectives, some longer-term trends, and take a longer-term look at the transport industry--for example, rail, trucking, and so on and so forth.

It mitigates concerns I think that an annual industry review alone is too focused on yearly changes, Mr. Chair, as opposed to tracking trends. I think I spoke to the same kind of rationale earlier when it came to the Air Travel Complaints Commissioner's role of tracking trends over time, as opposed to reporting on isolated complaints or isolated complaints that have been resolved there.

That's what I wanted to submit to the committee under amendments L-1 and L-1.1.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Jean.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm pleased to report to the committee that I think we have some form of compromise for the member, after listening last time and seeing the reasoning he brought forward or that the members brought forward. The department actually has provided to me a brief set of amendments that sets both French and English in some form of compromise that might be acceptable to the member and to the committee. I'd like to have the opportunity to pass that out, if I may.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Agreed.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB

Indeed, Mr. Chair, if I may continue, we have in both official languages the copy of the 2005 transportation report that has been referred to. I thought it would be advantageous for those of us who haven't seen it before to receive a copy of it.

3:40 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Do you have chocolates?

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB

That's 14,000 trees, Mr. Julian, right here.

Also, Mr. Chair, we do have the gentleman who was ultimately responsible for preparation of the report here again, if the committee has any further questions on this particular consolidation of amendments that have been proposed by the department, I think with input from all parties subsequent to the last meeting.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

I'll just wait, Mr. Jean, until everybody gets a copy. Then I'll ask you to briefly review the comments that are being made here.

Does everyone have a copy of the consolidation of amendments?

Please proceed.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB

Mr. Chairman, as can be self-evident from reading the consolidation of the amendments itself, what we are proposing is an every-year reporting function in addition to the five-year report. The five-year report would be substantially more in depth, given some of the comments made last time. We thought specifically that proposed paragraph 52(2)(c.1) would be helpful. It is for “the long term outlook and trends in transportation in Canada”, which will give not only a year-to-year synopsis of what's taking place but also a five-year outlook that can be compared to the last five years to see where the trend is going. That would be, from the department's perspective, very helpful on an ongoing basis.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Are there any comments?

Go ahead, Monsieur Laframboise.

3:45 p.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

I agree.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Are there other comments?

Go ahead, Mr. McGuinty.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON

As a point of clarification, Mr. Jean, would proposed paragraph 52(2)(c.1), “the long term outlook in trends in transportation in Canada”, include, for example, the air travel complaints responsibilities addressed by Bill C-11 as well?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB

I think that question would be best directed towards the department.

3:45 p.m.

Helena Borges Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport

A separate report is required in the current act from the Canadian Transportation Agency that reports on all the complaints. This is a report produced by the department, and it's really reporting on the state of transportation. The agency's report reports on all the complaints and the matters dealt with by the agency, and there are no changes proposed to that reporting requirement.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON

May I ask another question?

Can you help us and Canadians to understand what a brief overview of the state of transportation in Canada would look like subsection 52(1)?

3:45 p.m.

Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport

Helena Borges

We would propose that it look like basically the facts and figures, the changes on an annual basis from year to year in each of the modes--the infrastructures providers and so on--compared to the five-year report. The five-year report would look at many other factors--it would look at the impacts of trade, for example, the changes in the economy, and the future trends and things like that.

The report that we distributed to you is a mix of both. It does the facts and figures on an annual basis, but it also tries to go beyond that and look at specific issues. We would propose to reduce it to just the facts and figures, and then on a five-year basis do a much more comprehensive report.