Exactly.
Evidence of meeting #6 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mail.
Evidence of meeting #6 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mail.
1 p.m.
Liberal
Andy Scott Liberal Fredericton, NB
Also, the community engagement now to say that these issues are there is, in the face of this, going to be a dramatically different exercise than it would have been while they were receiving their mail at their homes. People are reasonable. They don't want to see their neighbours put in harm's way. Consequently, I think it would have been an entirely different dynamic from the dynamic you're going to probably see now. In the execution of this exercise that we've seen coming and you've seen coming—as you say, you have been dealing with it probably since November, and I know it's been known in my constituency that this was coming—I think action should have been taken so that the discussions that are now going to be taken under some sense of tension, and I can tell you that it is palpable, might have been done much more reasonably and less emotionally before the crisis came upon us, which is what happened on Monday.
I can tell you it's the subject of pretty much everything in greater Fredericton right now, in terms of the fact that people are having to drive.... People are actually having to drive to places within the greater area.... Fredericton is not a large place, but a few are having to drive to places they've never been before in their lives. I'm being called and asked for directions on how to get to places they've been told to go to that are supposed to be convenient pickup points.
1 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Post Corporation
No, it's not a convenient pickup. I think I said no. I had a choice.
If I may, I don't want to sound defensive. If we're falling down on the job on the execution side, I want to hear about that, and I'm going to do everything I can to make sure we're not, but I just want to correct something.
You may not know, Mr. Scott, that yes, I knew that in the 840,000 points of call, I probably have 20% of them that are unsafe as a result of urban sprawl and traffic. I didn't know which ones. It was proactive work in Fredericton. I took the National Research Council criteria we have and I went into Fredericton and we surveyed that whole rural area and now we know, but before we had a chance--and this working with our union--to do just exactly what you have said and what we have been doing in other parts of the country, one employee decided on that route he wasn't delivering the mail. When that happens, the first thing I want to say is I apologize to you and to the people in your constituency who were inconvenienced by that right to refuse work.
When I'm told on Monday morning--your office actually knows from my office that same day because that's how the community outreach program works--that there's a refusal to work, right there on the spot I have only two alternatives. I can hold the mail--and there may be cheques in that mail--or I can use the communication means available to me--letters, the airwaves, whatever--to tell people that there are two post offices, and it's not great, but we're going to put your mail there for now, and we're going to come into your community. I have a team on the ground, as we speak, in your community and we're going to talk to you, the inconvenienced clients of Canada Post, and have your thoughts about where we can put a collective safe delivery point that will be more convenient than this emergency stopgap measure.
I assure you, Mr. Scott, that yes, in some cases, depending on the geography and on the time of the year, it is going to take me six months. If I get a refusal to work in northern Canada in February, it's going to take me sometimes six weeks to get a better solution in hand.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
Andy Scott Liberal Fredericton, NB
The only point I want to make is this didn't have to start on Monday.
1:05 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Post Corporation
It didn't start on Monday.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
1:05 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Post Corporation
That's my point to you, Mr. Scott. It did not start on Monday.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
Andy Scott Liberal Fredericton, NB
To every one of those people, it started Monday when they got a letter saying they weren't going to get mail on Tuesday. The consultation, the preparation, the ordering of boxes, all those things that I've been told are the reasons why it can't be remedied for a period of time--originally six weeks, now two--might have been started before. They're talking about having public meetings, and I appreciate all that. These are the things that have to happen, but I believe they should have happened before. It didn't come as a surprise. I was aware of this situation for a couple of months. So this did not come as a surprise. It should have been addressed outside of this--
1:05 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Post Corporation
Okay, I take your criticism.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
Andy Scott Liberal Fredericton, NB
And it isn't intended to be a criticism as much as it is a suggestion for the future, because as you say there is much more of this coming. I think that action should be taken in advance.
1:05 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Post Corporation
In a proactive way.
June 1st, 2006 / 1:05 p.m.
Bloc
Christiane Gagnon Bloc Québec, QC
I am very glad to meet you today and to have this opportunity to ask you some questions.
In your career, you have had much experience with privatization and regulation. You are known as someone who applies drastic measures, in other words, some of your decisions have been rather draconian.
Let me mention a decision you made in 2005, which was to close down the Quebec mail sorting centre. At the time, 130,000 persons petitioned against this closure. Moreover, municipalities tabled some 1,000 resolutions to try and stop this decision by Canada Post, which was at the time your decision.
With regard to this decision, I would like to know whether you have a plan for downsizing. Why did you decide to implement downsizing in Quebec? You know that we have two centres, one in Quebec and one in Montreal, and that they serve 7.5 million people. Ontario has six centres for 12.5 million people. If you close down the Quebec centre, there will be a ratio of one centre for 7.5 million persons, whereas in Ontario, there will be one centre for 1.7 million persons. What is the rationale for this? Is this just or fair?
I know that you will tell me that no jobs were lost, but as far as I am concerned, I believe that jobs will be lost in the long term. You will tell us that the service would be just as good, but that is not what I want to know. Tell me, do you have a downsizing plan? Will you table it if you do? We already asked the minister for this in 2005. Now we are dealing with Minister Cannon. We want you to present a plan and to put a moratorium on your decision until this plan is made public.
1:10 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Post Corporation
Thank you for your question. I have no plan to downsize the sorting centres. At Canada Post, we have been downsizing for the past 15 years as conditions allow. We do this following certain criteria.
First of all, we downsize operations if we can do so, without penalizing employees. Next, we check to see if there is enough production capacity in the other undertakings of Canada Post. With regard to Quebec, the answer is yes. Montreal can increase its productivity by 30%. Thus, mail can be transferred from Quebec to Montreal without any loss in the quality of service. In fact, Ms. Gagnon, I'm very proud to tell you that the service in Quebec is the best in the province. It is done in a timely way 99.6% of the time. It is very important to avoid any decrease in service.
Finally, there is a third standard that allows us to know whether we can use our centres more efficiently. When a long process is involved, different types of mail can be transferred without Canada Post having to change its operating plan in any major way.
If we see that the situation is favourable in all three ways, then why not go ahead? The service offered by Canada Post to the Canadian population is of course very important, but it is commercial in nature, which is another important factor. This is in keeping with my mandate.
As CEO for Canada Post, the fact that 30% of the production capacity in one of my centres is not being used gives me an opportunity to streamline operations without even penalizing one single employee. If there is no decrease of service in the region, I think that it would be irresponsible not to go ahead.
1:10 p.m.
Bloc
Christiane Gagnon Bloc Québec, QC
Let us say that I do not agree at all with what you've just said. First, Canada Post is not a commercial service, it is a public service, a crown corporation.
1:15 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Post Corporation
It is a commercial company.
1:15 p.m.
Bloc
Christiane Gagnon Bloc Québec, QC
Yes, but I mean that you are going about the downsizing as if it were a private company.
Secondly, I would like to know what you mean by fairness. You have two sorting centres in New Brunswick for a population of 752,000 persons. This is a ratio of one sorting centre per 376,000 citizens. Thus, in Quebec, mail delivery has decreased more than anywhere else in Canada. Mail delivery is only decreasing in Quebec while the installations in the rest of Canada are improving.
1:15 p.m.
Bloc
Christiane Gagnon Bloc Québec, QC
There are two sorting centres for a population of 752,000 in New Brunswick, whereas Quebec has one centre for 7.5 million. Now you said that the service will remain the same and that there will be no problem with delivering service in Quebec. I do not believe that.
Have you studied the matter?
1:15 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Post Corporation
Yes. We did some studies and it is—
1:15 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Post Corporation
The studies are conducted by an independent firm, a third party. The firm is IBM, which conducts studies of this nature for most major postal organizations in the world. IBM conducts service studies in Canada and the US because we have to know what the levels of service in both countries are, and determine whether they are met.
According to information from IBM, which is not paid by Canada Post, I can assure you that service in Quebec is the best in the country.
With respect to equity, I don't believe that is the issue. The issue is rather to make the most efficient and effective use of all resources at Canada Post, without reducing services and without causing harm to employees. Let's say that some 319 people will retire in Quebec over the next three years. We could transfer the mail to Montreal in stages, in order to harmonize the process with the retirements. So it is not an equity issue. We have some facilities here, and others there. It is an issue of...
