Transport Committee on Dec. 13th, 2007

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

I want to focus on some of the hallmarks, I think, of the plan in terms of broad principles. You mentioned leverage, of course, the fact that in order to deal with this infrastructure debt that is in the country, you have to be able to leverage other levels of government, private interests, and that type of money to be able to tackle that large a number. Next is predictability--year over year funding in some of the funding envelopes.

Then there is also flexibility. I want to focus on that for a second. What does this plan mean for large urban centres first and then small rural municipalities?

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

One of the problems we always see when putting projects online is the period of time in which due diligence has to be done, when we have to be able to make sure that the contribution agreements are there, the whole process that is required by the Auditor General. I think it is quite correct to be able to say that we are, as parliamentarians, accountable to Canadians and to the Canadian taxpayers for what we're doing. So there is a legitimate process there.

But when we look at flexibility, we want to see how we can, for instance, accept that an analysis that has been done by province X is an analysis with which we're familiar, with which we're comfortable, with which the Auditor General would be comfortable. What are the general thresholds we're looking at.

It's very mechanical in a sense, but it does consume a lot of time, so we're trying to find ways to make sure that we can bundle things together. I guess the best appreciation of that would be when we go out and do an environmental study. In many cases we do joint environmental studies with the provinces to be able to shorten the period of time.

So when we look at flexible financing, it's a bit like that. The best case here I can give you is the base funding, which is the $25 million a year that we're putting out there for the provinces and territories over the next seven years. That literally has very few requirements. The provinces will submit to us a list of infrastructure priorities for which they would like to see funding, for which they would submit, of course, an amount of money. They would be in for 50% of that amount of money, and we would add on that amount of money.

The gas tax is another great example of flexibility. We turn around and we give the provinces that gas tax. The gas tax basically enables the provinces either to work with the municipal organization--as in the case of the Province of Ontario--or, as I was mentioning to Mr. Laframboise before, as in the case of the Province of Quebec, to determine its own priorities. They've asked for flexibility, and we've given them flexibility.

These are two examples of where we feel that in terms of partnership it has to be all the concerned parties working together, and that's the kind of model we want to develop.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you, Mr. Watson.

Mr. Alghabra.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, Minister and officials. Thank you for coming here.

Minister, I'm going to talk to you about a subject that is very important to me and to the people of Mississauga.

Last March, you and Prime Minister Stephen Harper came to the greater Toronto area and made an announcement that included funding of the bus rapid transit of $83 million. This is a project that the city has been working on for the last ten years. The province had made a commitment and the federal government had made a commitment. Your former colleague, Wajid Khan, at the time took credit for it, and said that because of his work this money was delivered. At the time, the Prime Minister said that money was actually allocated in the 2006 budget, not the 2007 budget. That was even prior to the 2007 budget announcement.

I've written to you at least four times over the last six months on this matter. This project is in jeopardy. When will we see the $83 million that you and the Prime Minister have promised to the City of Mississauga?

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

Let me back that up.

The Prime Minister made an announcement on an unprecedented amount of money in the GTA, roughly a billion dollars, of which the largest chunk goes to the expansion of the subway system. I recall Mississauga in there for $83 million, which I think is the amount you alluded to. You're right, the Brampton “AcceleRide” project was in there.

The funding actually was provided not through Building Canada; it was provided by the Canada Strategic Infrastructure Fund. So the parameters there have already been accepted by Treasury Board.

I had the opportunity, about half an hour ago, to speak with Hazel McCallion, who, as you know, is the mayor of Mississauga, to tell her that we had sent documents for her signature no later than yesterday so that we could be able to get this project up and running. As you know, the federal government pays when the invoices are coming in. So there's no problem. We're there, we're open for business. I've repeated that. All I need now is a signature from Mayor McCallion to be able to move forward.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

So you're saying the money is there?

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

Absolutely.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Why do you think the City of Mississauga has been saying that the money has not been provided for up to now?

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

The money is there. The contribution agreement will be, hopefully, signed in the very near future. You have to appreciate, and I've indicated that before, that when projects come forward due diligence has to be done on the projects, on the one hand. We—yourself, myself, every parliamentarian—have to be able to account for the money that we spend. In that regard, all the necessary paperwork has been done, and any time we receive that document signed by Her Worship Mayor McCallion, we'll be able to go forward.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Minister, this announcement was made in March. I've written to you four to five times about it. I'm going to wait and see. I think you'll forgive me for remaining skeptical, but I will wait and see what the mayor says, and hopefully the money will come.

Mr. Chair, I want to share my time with my colleague.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with your correspondence there, but I'll get back to you on that.

When is the start date? When is the construction starting on that?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

The construction could not start until we get confirmation that the federal government has the money ready for it.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

That's not correct.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Bell.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Do you believe the mayors are whiners?

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Bell, you have 40 seconds.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Can I have him answer that?

Do you believe the mayors are whiners, Minister?

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

No, sir.

I just indicated to you.... I asked you a question.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Do you believe the mayor's job is—

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

I asked you a question. When is the project set to start?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

No. It's my time.

Mr. Chair, a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

A point of order, Mr. Alghabra.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

When is the project set to start? Can you answer me? When is the project set to start?

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Order, please.

We have a point of order.

Mr. Alghabra.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

The minister had time to have his opening remarks. We would never interrupt him, interrupt his speech, or criticize it. We have limited time as members of this committee to ask questions, and it's our time. We have the right to control it and ask the witness to answer our questions or move on to the next question.

So I hope, Mr. Chair, you help us in facilitating this dialogue.