Transport Committee on Nov. 16th, 2009

[Helena Borges]

I don't know where they got their information, but I'll tell you that it's very difficult, first, to get good financial numbers from any other country. As part of our assessments we look at them. We compare VIA Rail and benchmark that to Amtrak because Amtrak tends to be the one with the best publicly available information. We have tried to get data from Japan, from the U.K., from France, from Germany, from Sweden, and for most of the numbers we are finding there is no system that covers its operating costs or its capital costs. In fact, we've only found one little railway--and I'll limit that to “little”. The only one that does cover its costs is the Heathrow Express, which is the dedicated rail line between downtown London and Heathrow Airport, which does basically a non-stop express service in that segment.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Does any passenger rail system cover its costs? Does VIA Rail cover its costs?

[Helena Borges]

VIA Rail does not cover its costs.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

By that logic, we could just fold up VIA Rail as well.

[Helena Borges]

The government provides VIA Rail, and VIA Rail has been before this committee numerous times. I have to speak on VIA's accounts: they get an annual subsidy from the government of $169 million.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

You are making improvements to the passenger rail service, in eastern Canada anyway. What kinds of results are you expecting? Are you expecting to shave off a significant amount of time from the trip? It doesn't seem to me we are going to notice much of a difference at the end of the day. Perhaps it's just that we're liberating some freight track for freight trains or we're repairing track that needs to be repaired. Correct me if I'm wrong, because obviously you have the numbers, but I can't see those investments really changing consumers' choices. Do you?

[Helena Borges]

The passengers look not only at the time it takes to get from point A to point B. In fact, what customers really want is reliability. If they know they're going to be able to get from Montreal to Toronto in so many hours and they can basically count on that day after day after day, that is more important to them than taking an extra 15 minutes.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Sure, but Mr. Miller said that the reliability, unless I misunderstood, is 92%.

[Helena Borges]

I think he mentioned for his three passenger systems, so that includes GO Transit and AMT as well as VIA Rail. VIA Rail's is not at 92%; I can tell you that.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Will you be using some of that money to improve the railcars?

[Helena Borges]

Yes. In fact a big portion of the funding VIA is receiving is to overhaul the cars that are used in the corridor and the cars on the western service, the cars all over their system, as well as the locomotives. They are basically rebuilding the locomotives to be more environmentally friendly.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Mario Laframboise]

Thank you.

I will be using some of Mr. Plamondon's time.

It is a good thing that you highlight the merits of government investments, but if we take the study on Amtrak, we have to admit that we are far from achieving the same results as the Americans, as far as passenger rail is concerned.

A little earlier on, Mr. Miller said that 78% of trains generally arrive on time, which includes passenger trains and VIA Rail. Amtrak completely controls passenger transport in the corridor. They choose the schedules whereas we have not reached that point. We have not had such a rate of success. The Agence métropolitaine de transport de Montréal has had significant delays in the last year. We do not have such a rate of efficiency as far as respecting schedules is concerned.

[Helena Borges]

Today, VIA Rail is investing. That said, the company negotiated an agreement with CN to obtain results on improvements to arrival times in train stations as well as the entire duration of trips. It is the first time VIA Rail has ever signed this type of agreement with CN. In the past, this agreement did not exist. Now that investments have been made, I hope CN and VIA Rail will work together to obtain the results desired by VIA Rail.

I also know that the AMT and GO Transit are doing the same. They have agreements with CN regarding rehabilitating the system. I think it is starting to work.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Mario Laframboise]

Yes, beginning, but we are far from the results in the U.S.

My second question is simple. A reference was made to customs clearance, problems in B.C. and even in Montreal on the issue of customs clearance. People were saying that Canada was the problem. Is there an agreement? That is what people were telling us in the United States.

[Helena Borges]

The problem had to do with the Canada Border Services Agency, but I believe that has actually been addressed. It only has to do with the new frequencies, not for the system already in place. In Vancouver, there are plans for a new train this fall. The CBSA addressed the problem, and I believe everything has now been settled. However, I am aware of the fact that there were problems this spring.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Mario Laframboise]

Thank you very much, Ms. Borges and Mr. Lawless.

We will suspend the hearing for a few minutes and come back in camera for our meeting. We would therefore ask all of those who are not members or staff to leave, if you will.

[Proceedings continue in camera]