Evidence of meeting #2 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was toyota.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
9:40 a.m.
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
I'd like to give you an idea--
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
For example, the other day, one of my staff who attended that particular on-site inspection asked if you had the black box that would give you a clear assessment of what was wrong with the Toyota parts or not. The answer was that it should be in the office by now. Have you got it?
9:40 a.m.
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
Mr. Chair, could I provide a little background?
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
What I'd like to explain first is that there are 400 recalls in Canada. We typically do not investigate after a recall has been issued. We have defect investigations and recalls. The purpose of defect investigations is to see if there is an issue that the manufacturer must take care of. When a manufacturer comes to the table with a recall, they've addressed that concern. We take it that they have done the appropriate action. Often, of these 400 recalls, we have not had an investigation related to those recalls.
In this particular situation, Toyota came to us. They informed us of the issue. They issued the notice of defect as required under the Motor Vehicle Safety Act. We looked at the data that we had prior to that situation and we had nothing that outlined a pedal concern. We have not seen a sticky pedal in the cases we have.
If I can continue--
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
I'm sorry, I'm going to have to interrupt you, because I'm going to have to ask the questions. I can hear that again. You gave us that speech already. What I wanted to know is do you have the decoder that Toyota says will allow all specialists to understand how their product works? Yes or no?
9:45 a.m.
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
I'm getting there. I am getting there, please--
9:45 a.m.
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
Yes, I do. Please let me get there.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
But it's a simple answer. Yes, I have it, or no, I don't have it.
9:45 a.m.
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
We made formal requests to Toyota for the readers. The readers are prototype tools, which they are currently manufacturing. If you watched the congressional hearings, you would know that. They indicated that the readers would be available at the end of April.
Toyota has forwarded a reader to us. It is a prototype device. We received it this week.
Our collision and defect investigation group--
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
So if you received it this week, are you going to be able to take a look at the very important issue of safety?
We have an example in B.C., where a Mr. Eves has been claiming that his son was the victim of a vehicle accident--
9:45 a.m.
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
If I can complete, I will give you more information with respect to that.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
--in which this particular issue might have been the case. He was promised the decoder so that he could look at that black box and we could be certain about the safety of the product.
You have that. Are you going to call Mr. Eves and get that thing resolved today?
9:45 a.m.
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
Mr. Chairman, can I expand, please?
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
That's the end of the time, but I'm going to allow you to answer that, yes.
9:45 a.m.
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
Thank you very much.
With respect to the black box, two points, and I will answer both of your questions, Mr. Volpe.
First off, on the black box, we do have it. It is a prototype tool. Our group is currently working with it to verify that the data is accurate. What we are doing is taking data from our crash test centre, because we know those crashes and we understand what happened in those crashes, and we are doing downloads. Keep in consideration that the box may not work on every vehicle. Also keep in consideration—and I'm using this from previous experience with other manufacturers—you typically require an airbag deployment to set a system in time. Therefore, if there is an event without an airbag deployment the black box reader may tell you nothing.
With respect to the situation in B.C., yes, that issue came to our attention as of yesterday afternoon, late afternoon, Eastern Standard Time. Our field investigation team has been on the phone with the gentleman and we already have recent information from the black box as far as the label so we can try to determine if it can even be downloaded. It will be in transit, likely today or tomorrow, from the owner to our field team, and then to Ottawa for us to attempt to download. However, prior to downloading that box we want to verify that the data that's coming out of it is appropriate and that we do not disturb the information that's in it by doing something incorrect.
This device is such a prototype that there is not even an instruction manual with it. Toyota Canada has given it to us. They do not have any technical expertise with respect to that device because that is coming directly from Japan, where it was manufactured.
9:45 a.m.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
What I find irritating in the whole Toyota file is that we seem to be lagging behind the Americans in terms of safety. When we look at your complaints graph, we see that there has been an increasing number of complaints against Toyota since 2006. There was a floor mat recall in October 2009.
I have a simple question. How many Toyota floor mat complaints did you have before the recall? When did you start receiving floor mat complaints, for example?
9:45 a.m.
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
I'll answer the question, Mr. Chair.
With respect to the carpets, there are a number of things you have to consider. First is the type of event that has resulted. Often the event may not be known as a carpet issue. It may be what is classified as a “sudden acceleration” or a “run-away event”, where the operator has a circumstance that they feel the vehicle is uncontrollable. We often learn during the process of investigation whether or not it is the carpets.
Up until September 2009, the Toyota complaints were not significantly higher than the other years. Up to September, we actually only had 37. And then, from that time forward, you'll see the increase in the data.
9:45 a.m.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
If you do not have the answer, could you provide it to the committee? I would simply like to know when you first started to receive floor mat complaints and how many complaints of this type you had from 2006 to 2009.
9:45 a.m.
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
Since 2006.... Unfortunately, I do not have the data right back to 2006. We do have it; I don't have it present today.
These complaints are grouped with accelerator pedal, floor mats, and other sudden acceleration issues, because you often will not learn what those are until you do you the investigation. Often they may just be a simple consumer complaint.
We will provide all data for you.
9:50 a.m.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Let me ask you the same thing..., since there was the sticking accelerator pedal recall in January 2010. Could you tell me how many accelerator complaints you have had since 2006?
That is my problem. I began my speech saying that we seem to be behind the Americans. I am trying to understand why.
If, since 2006, 2007 or 2008, you had floor mat complaints, why did you wait for Toyota's recall? Did Transport Canada force Toyota to issue the recall?