Evidence of meeting #2 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was toyota.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
Do you believe that those ten inspector-investigators you have are sufficient to deal with 29 million vehicles so that we can guarantee the safety of Canadian drivers?
10:10 a.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security Group, Department of Transport
What we deal with is approximately 1,200 complaints a year. With the ten investigators we have, plus the regional resources that we also utilize, we feel, based on the risk in the system, that this has been adequate to date to deal with that.
Obviously, we live within our means. Should additional resources be required, there are mechanisms for us to follow through to seek those resources, should need be. But until this date, with the number of complaints we receive on an annual basis, we've been able to keep up with the complaints we've been receiving.
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
On this particular Toyota issue, when you came to know that there was a problem and Toyota came up with those two solutions, has your team verified that those two mechanisms work safely to protect the Canadian consumers?
10:10 a.m.
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
Right now, we are basing the information as to what Toyota has provided, indicating what they've done in their research and testing. Do keep in consideration that we typically--typically--do not investigate after a recall. In this particular situation, we are looking into it further in light of the fact of the number of complaints that have come forward since.
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
So do you mean you are telling me that when you hear about a recall where Canadian drivers' safety is at risk, you don't do any due diligence to make sure that particular problem is fixed?
10:10 a.m.
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
No, I wouldn't say that we do not do any due diligence. There is a recall process that is required by the vehicle manufacturers. Of those 459 recalls, probably 80% to 90% are voluntarily brought forward by the manufacturer.
The recall department will look at the validity of the technical instructions for doing the repair and they will also monitor the completion rate of the vehicles in that recall. For two years, the manufacturer must provide us an update on the vehicles that have been repaired as part of that recall. If by chance we get a complaint after the recall or outside of that recall, we will then look into that situation. Our investigations have led in the past to extensions of recalls or other vehicles being involved in the recalls.
10:15 a.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
You mentioned that the media has done its job to make consumers aware about this situation. Are you in a capacity to get a list of the customers who are directly impacted? If you have the access to those lists, what steps has the department taken to make sure that those consumers have come to Toyota to get that problem fixed?
10:15 a.m.
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
That will come through the quarterly reports with a completion rate of how many vehicles have been fixed. When Toyota submits their quarterly report to us, they will indicate the numbers of vehicles that were subject to the campaign and how many have been repaired.
10:15 a.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
But you have not done any work on your part. Or the department has not done any...?
10:15 a.m.
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
What we are currently doing is investigating those complaints that are coming forward. So if somebody has a concern, whether it be before the recall, after the recall, or as a result of the recall fix, we are looking into those situations.
10:15 a.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I am going back to the complaints, Mr. Lehouillier.
You received floor mat complaints in October 2009. Did you check to see what had happened in the United States or was it Toyota that warned you about the problems?
10:15 a.m.
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
The complaints we received were with respect to the Venza vehicle. We documented those situations and we just represented how those floor mats could get entrapped in the accelerator pedal. We shared our findings with Toyota and indicated that we felt they were doing an action with these other vehicles, that this is a very similar concern, and that they needed to take appropriate action with those vehicles as well.
10:15 a.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
You said you have received 17 complaints in total, but could you tell me what you did about the accelerator? We realized later that it was not a question of the floor mat, but that there was a problem with the accelerator. When I came to your meeting last Monday, one of your engineers showed that a pin or a piece of metal had been placed on the accelerator.
Was it you at Transport Canada who found the problem or was it the people at Toyota who pointed it out to you?
10:15 a.m.
Chief, Defect Investigations and Recalls Branch, Department of Transport
We are talking about separate issues. The rubber floor mats created problems in the United States. They could make the accelerator stick. In Canada, the Venza floor mat was problematic. Toyota issued a recall notice to replace the Venza floor mat.
The accelerator pedal that can stick is a different issue. Transport Canada was not aware of that before Toyota contacted us and issued the notice of defect on January 21, 2010.
10:15 a.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
Have you received any complaints? A little earlier, Mr. Lehouillier said that there had been 17 complaints. What were the complaints about? The floor mats or the accelerator?
10:15 a.m.
Chief, Defect Investigations and Recalls Branch, Department of Transport
We received complaints about the vehicles' involuntary acceleration problems. To find out whether it was because of the floor mats or something else, an investigation has to be done. We did not receive any complaints before Toyota's recall notice about the pedal that was sticking because of condensation.
When Toyota issued the notice of defect, the company had to provide the reasons for issuing that notice. Toyota told us that it has received five sticky pedal complaints in Canada and five in the United States since October 2009.
10:15 a.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
All right. What did you do when you received the 17 complaints? My question is simple. Do you not have enough staff to conduct the investigations? I want to know if you found something or if Toyota told you about it?
10:15 a.m.
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
The five complaints were not Transport Canada complaints. These were complaints that Toyota had received and brought to our attention when we had the meetings concerning the issue.
We have not seen a sticky pedal to date. During our vehicle inspections, that is one thing we look at. Not only do we look at the pedal, we also look at pedal spacing. We look at floor mat configurations, where the floor mat is, what the person is using for floor mats. Often you will see after-market floor mats in a vehicle.
We also look at some of the other circumstances that are taking place. If you had a sudden acceleration from a non-stop situation, such as a parking lot occurrence, what was the driver doing at the time? Were they backing up? Were they looking backwards? What were they paying attention to? If they were driving down the highway, what was happening? Was it a cruise control situation where they'd passed somebody? There are a number of factors involved in looking at these situations. Looking at the operation of the pedal and the throttle mechanism in the engine compartment is one of them.
10:20 a.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
I agree with you. But what did you do about the 15 complaints you received about the accelerator?
10:20 a.m.
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
The 17 complaints are not for sticky pedal. The 17 complaints relate to public complaints that have come forward concerning sudden acceleration, vehicle runaway, engine surge, driveability. When you look at the 17 and break them down, you have very small numbers of--
10:20 a.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
For me, sudden acceleration and the accelerator are one and the same thing. I am not sure if you understand what I mean. I believe Mr. Lussier understood. You are saying that it was accelerating faster. I am talking about the accelerator. For me, they are quite similar.
10:20 a.m.
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
If the pedal itself is sticking, the idle of the engine will return low. It is not going to make the vehicle suddenly accelerate.
10:20 a.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
Do you not have enough research staff when you receive complaints like that? I was a restaurant owner once. If I had received 17 complaints, I guarantee you that my restaurant would have been closed, regardless of the type of complaint, whether it was for cleanliness or for something else. I am not sure whether Transport Canada has enough staff. Maybe we are in a recession. I would like to know if you do not have enough staff. Transport Canada did not find the defects in the Toyota cars; it was the company who told you about it. I want to know if you found something or if Toyota told you about it.
