Evidence of meeting #46 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was track.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Colin Mayes Conservative Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
What about the railways that would not be under the authority of this act?
4:05 p.m.
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
I'd have to check. I'm more familiar with the federal regime, the network. It changes quite often with lines being bought, sold, or dismantled.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Colin Mayes Conservative Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
I think it's important that we're clear here that we're dealing with the main lines of CP and CN.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Colin Mayes Conservative Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
In terms of the operation certificates and the penalties, how do you see that working? Would there be a warning? As you monitor violations of the operating certificate, would you give a certain period of time for them to rectify the problem before there is action taken? And how long is it going to take to get to the point where you're actually going to take them to court and fine them?
4:05 p.m.
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
At this time that would be defined by regulation. But I'd say it would have a lot to do with repeat offenders. If someone has a non-compliance placed that can be fixed right away, that can be done under a notice and order, we would still do it this way. It could be based on the severity of the violation as well, that we may decide to go directly to an administrative monetary penalty. It could be because we've been finding that type of defect time after time, and although they're fixing it, we're still finding it, so we'd want to got to an administrative monetary penalty system.
Obviously, there will be a schedule attached to the regulation that will determine what it could cost for which type of offence.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Colin Mayes Conservative Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
What about the environmental protection of the rights-of-way? It might not be part of rail safety.
For instance, in the community where I lived, one of the councillors and I went down on the track and did a cleanup. We got 24 bags of garbage, and the majority of it was from those maintenance people along the track. We were not impressed. There were oil cans that were spilt on the track and those types of things.
Is that going to be part of protecting the environment along those rights-of-way?
4:05 p.m.
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
What you call garbage on the rights-of-way has been an issue for many years. Unless it creates a safety hazard for train crews or people, there's very little we can do.
There's provision under proposed section 47 of the bill, under clause 37, and in your binders, I think, that deals with the environmental plan that will have to be submitted by railways, and that will be audited by Transport Canada.
How deep will we go with that? I don't know.
But in reference to what you're talking about, in the past, unless it could create a safety hazard, we did not have any authority in the act to take action.
To be honest, I don't know whether, when we work on the regulations for the environmental plan, that will be in it or not.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Colin Mayes Conservative Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Do you think that might come under a different ministry, maybe a provincial ministry of environment?
4:05 p.m.
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
It could. It's something we can consider.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
My questions are going to be focused only from the perspective of women and men, workers or employees.
I have heard many concerns from employees that they operate under a climate of fear, which would make them hesitant to use any non-punitive internal reporting. Shouldn't there be a clause or provisions in Bill C-33 to allow them to report, or make these non-punitive reports directly to Transport Canada?
4:10 p.m.
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
At this time it is under section 47.1 of the act, but the reporting would be to the company and not to us. That was the amendment that was suggested.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
Basically you're telling me that they would not be reporting to you but to the company. That's my concern. I'll give you an example. An employee goes to his employer and says there is a safety-related issue. At that point in time, the employee is marked, and the next time that employee makes a minor mistake or something, that is kept in mind, because this person is a whistleblower. That is what I am concerned about.
All those women and men who are working there as employees have a sword of fear hanging over their necks all the time. How are you going to make sure it is taken off the employees? They should be able to report directly to Transport Canada.
4:10 p.m.
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
Right now, under the bill, it would be reported to the employer. There's also a system that exists, which unfortunately not too many people know about, under the Transportation Safety Board. It's called Securitas. People can call anonymously to let them know what is going on. Usually we're contacted to investigate the situation.
However, if you're talking about something that would be on the side of harassment, first of all, we investigate 100% of the complaints we get. We send someone out.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
All I'm saying is that you know the fear exists. You know there's no provision in the act to report it to Transport Canada. What would it take? I don't think it would take a great deal. All it would take is a small effort to amend the bill so that those employees would be able to come directly to Transport Canada without having any fear of the employer if they reported a safety issue.
4:10 p.m.
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
Right now when there's a situation like that, which has been reported to us and which is perceived as harassment, it is usually dealt with by HRSDC.
Within the philosophy of the safety management system, we're trying to do as much as we can through the guidelines we've published and through the council we have in place to change the culture in the rail industry so that this type of situation does not occur.
However, you're not the first one to raise that point. I guess it could be submitted as an amendment, and it would be considered by the department.
4:10 p.m.
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
I'm not saying we're going to support it. I'm saying we're definitely going to look at it, because we have heard it before.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
On the other issue, fatigue, you mentioned that you have guidelines or something. What are the laws and regulations that govern the fatigue policies? Do agreements between management and labour ensure appropriate rules?
4:10 p.m.
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
Currently we have what we call the work-rest rule, which is a rule that everybody has to abide by. If you're in what we consider to be a position critical to safety--train crews, locomotive conductors, RTCs, or crane operators--you have to abide by this rule. The rule sets out maximum hours of duty and mandatory periods of rest. If the rule is not respected, then we will take action.
On top of this, as I mentioned earlier, when they did their report, SCOTIC recommended that we look into fatigue. So we had a joint working group that included labour organizations, transport, and the industry. We recently published new guidelines to help people cope.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
Should we explicitly allow in the bill for regulations on scheduling, then?
4:10 p.m.
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
It's not in the bill. It's through a rule that we get the authority to do it under section 18.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
I have to stop it there. We will get another shot, I'm sure.
Monsieur Gaudet.