Transport Committee on June 6th, 2013

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

But essentially, if you limit access somehow through undoing collective agreements that have been signed, if you limit access to the building trades, that is to your advantage, because then you have access where they used to have access.

I guess this is part of the problem with this whole thing. There are two stages to a collective agreement. There's certification first, which comes to a union and not to a contractor. It's the workforce that becomes unionized, not the owners. Then the second stage is that the owners and the union have to sit down and sign a collective agreement. If they don't then it's still open. They're free to choose how to do that—both sides. There are two parties. It's not, as the opposition would have us believe, somehow forced. A collective agreement isn't forced upon anybody, by any government or by any fiat of a province or city. In fact, two sides get together and decide what they want to see in a collective agreement, do they not?

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

You've made your point on that, Mr. Sullivan.

Do you want to comment on that, Mr. Miller?

[Harvey Miller]

I would like to.

That is the concern we're raising. In our companies the employees have chosen not to be unionized. The conditions that are imposed in Manitoba on these projects are that non-union workers, workers who have chosen freely not to be unionized, are being forced into a union for employment. We feel it's wrong that you should be forced to be a union member just to feed your family, if it's your choice and your desire not to belong to a union.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you.

I want to clear up an issue that you mentioned a couple of times, Mr. Sullivan, as to witnesses we haven't heard from.

We have invited a large number of witnesses put forth by your party, who have been unable to come. They will get a chance at some point, if we can do it, and the study goes long enough. I also want to point out that on Tuesday we had four of your witnesses who were here in Ottawa, but due to circumstances that were not the fault of any of the parties—we ended up with votes—we weren't able to have our meeting on Tuesday. That didn't happen, and that is very unfortunate because we paid to have the witnesses here.

I don't like the insinuation, because we are working to get everybody here. The NDP are four members of a twelve-man committee, and get 33% of the witnesses, more or less. That's what the clerk and I strive to have at the end of the day. This study is not over yet, so give us time.

With that, I move on to Mr. Poilievre for five minutes.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Mr. Sullivan said that giving you a level playing field would constitute an unfair advantage. Do you believe you would have an unfair advantage if you were given a level playing field to compete?

[Dennis Perrin]

With respect to CLAC's perspective, we would certainly not have an unfair advantage to compete. We are already three steps behind the eight ball, because of how these agreements are put together.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

You're not looking for an unfair advantage, you just want to compete on a level playing field.

[Dennis Perrin]

Absolutely.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

The next point that Mr. Sullivan said—

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

There's a point of order.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

I have a point of privilege. I don't believe I said "unfair advantage".

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

You did.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

I said "advantage", not "unfair advantage".

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Whichever....

If he just said “advantage” then I guess he's implying that the union-free contractors are, by their nature, advantaged over the unionized ones. That's not my suggestion; it would appear to be his. I believe all of them can compete on a level playing field but it's news to me that the NDP believes otherwise. It might want to take issue with the unions, if it believes so.

He also suggested that the Merit Contractors Association and the Christian Labour Association of Canada contractors want to block building trades. Do you want to block building trades from competing?

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

You have a point of order, Ms. Chow.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

You mentioned earlier that Mr. Sullivan said that on this issue—

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

On what issue?

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

On the issue that there was the question, I think there was a bit of discussion as to—

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

About advantage...?

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

About witnesses.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

You and I have had a discussion. We're not going to waste committee time on it. I want to clarify. You and I have had the conversation.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Exactly, on the side.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Yes.