Transport Committee on June 6th, 2013

[Robert Blakely]

—who are being hired for the construction project and the construction term. But once the job is over, they will be trained people who will be in situ. The owner will go out and generally try to hire the best they can find, so that they're meeting their own resources. Plus, Nalcor is planning to move on and build Gull Island, which is three times bigger than Muskrat Falls, so it's in their interest to help encourage a local workforce. If it costs a little more on this end, they're going to get it out on the other end.

The people who are designing the labour relations strategies for Nalcor, or for Syncrude, or for a resource company in the Ring of Fire aren't stupid people. They are looking at this on the basis of the life cycle that they are going to get out of the facility they're building.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I understand what you're saying. The title of the study is how competition can make infrastructure dollars go further. From your point of view this is essentially project labour agreements versus low bidding. Is that correct?

[Robert Blakely]

No. I got two issues out of reading the transcript. One is that project labour agreements are pernicious and ought not to be allowed. The other is that all tendering should be open tender without qualification. Mr. Miller was the only person who has ever said, “contractors who are qualified...”.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Mr. Blakely, I have to cut you off there because I need a rebuttal, I guess you could call it, from the gentlemen.

[Robert Blakely]

No problem.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Mr. Miller, we'll start with you.

[Harvey Miller]

Just for the record, my comments were that contractors who bid should be qualified. I've also said that if there are project management agreements, those agreements should be written in such a way as to not violate the Canadian Charter of Rights for workers.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I won't ask you to talk about a specific project, unless you'd like to. Do you think some of these agreements contravene the charter, as you point out?

[Harvey Miller]

In my opinion, absolutely. We instituted a lawsuit in Manitoba to that effect.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Perhaps you'd like to expand on that. Based on what?

[Harvey Miller]

I mentioned that in my presentation. Along with five individuals, a statement of claim was made in the Manitoba Court of Queen's Bench that the conditions I mentioned in section 12, stipulated in the Burntwood/Nelson Agreement, violate employees' rights, freedom of expression, and freedom of association.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Do you think something like a local hire policy infringes on basic rights?

[Harvey Miller]

Absolutely not.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Mr. Perrin.

[Dennis Perrin]

Thank you.

I'd like to speak specifically to project labour agreements. I want it to be on the record. From our perspective, we certainly are not opposed to them. It's quite the opposite. We support them, but we support them in a different context than we've talked about today. I spoke a bit earlier about the managed open site model. That is the predominant model on all major construction projects, particularly in the oil sands industry in northern Alberta today. It's being used more and more throughout the heavy industrial construction industry in Saskatchewan, and it's a movement that's certainly taking hold.

A variety of project labour agreements may exist, but at the end of the day, regardless of the mechanics within which they're structured, they allow the different labour groups to bid on and secure that work. The building trades unions that Mr. Blakely is with, CLAC, the CEP—

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

You don't have that advantage? This is unequal footing in your opinion.

[Dennis Perrin]

Yes. In the province of Manitoba right now, that provision does not exist with these agreements we've spoken of.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

How much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

You have about half a minute.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Mr. Blakely, would you like to comment on what was said? I don't have a lot of time to get into a new topic.

[Robert Blakely]

All right.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Just as a follow-up.

[Robert Blakely]

Yes, there are management open site agreements. Those generally tend to be owner preference based on their theory of risk management. It is all about managing the risk. There are as significant a number of Christian Labour Association project labour agreements as there are ours.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Mr. Perrin, is that the case?

[Robert Blakely]

On the issue of the project labour agreement—