Transport Committee on Feb. 25th, 2014

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Sullivan has the floor.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Fair enough.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Your question, Mr. Sullivan?

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

On the bill?

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Are the closure of the Kitsilano coast guard station and the cuts to the Canadian Coast Guard a difficulty in creating a world-class tanker safety regime?

Captain Brown?

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair—

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Point of order.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

—maybe the member can point to where the Kitsilano station is in the bill.

Chair, I don't know.... It's flouting your own decision at the table. I'm not going to tell you how to do your job, but I'm going to raise the point of order again and ask you to rule on it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

It's definitely not on Bill C-3. I'll see if Mr. Brown is prepared to comment on it if he wishes, but....

[Capt Stephen Brown]

I'm happy to do so, Mr. Chairman, should you wish.

First of all, Kitsilano base is not actually within the port's jurisdiction. It's outside of the port's jurisdiction. There was a misperception that in some way the Kitsilano base was related to spill response preparedness and capability. That is actually not the case. It was a pure rescue boat that was stationed at Kitsilano. It had nothing to do with oil spill response and preparedness. It was not equipped to undertake those tasks. The issue is really one of whether there was adequate other mitigating rescue capability when that boat was removed. I can talk about that as well, but I think I've answered the question.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

In terms of another part of your brief, Captain Brown, you talk about Bill C-3 including a commitment to expand Canada's national aerial surveillance program, the commitment to expand the number of designated ports for traffic control measures, the commitment to expand scientific research on non-conventional petroleum products, and the adoption of electronic navigation capabilities. Those aren't part of this bill, are they, as far as I can read it?

[Capt Stephen Brown]

No.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

They're a government commitment.

[Capt Stephen Brown]

They are, yes.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Under what aegis will those be created? How will that happen?

[Capt Stephen Brown]

Well, I think you can say that they're under the government's commitment to develop. As Mr. Wilson described it, we have an excellent record of capability in managing the marine traffic on the coasts of Canada.

What we want to do for what is sometimes referred to as a world-class system is to raise the bar even higher than the one we have today. I think referenced to the fact that we went to Norway to look at what they are doing and we've also looked very, very carefully at other jurisdictions.... There is within the marine industry a determination to leave no stone unturned in looking to see what we could possibly do better than we're already doing. But let there be no doubt: what we are already doing is of a higher standard by world classification.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Will these commitments...have you heard yet whether the government has actually put them in a budget? Is there funding for these commitments?

[Capt Stephen Brown]

They are recommendations from the committee at this stage, sir. The government has undertaken, in my understanding.... I stand to be corrected here, but in my understanding these recommendations are now moving forward, and there is a possibility that they could appear in legislation in the near future. But I can't speak for the government on that, except for the fact that they are undertakings that have been made, and certainly the marine industry would support them should they be fulfilled.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

So the government has actually made those undertakings?

[Capt Stephen Brown]

Yes.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

This is the Department of Transport or Transport Canada?

[Capt Stephen Brown]

Yes, it's Transport Canada. For example, on the expansion of the national aerial surveillance system, which you referenced, it was announced last year that this was the intention. In fact, the minister announced last week that in fact that is going ahead, and the budget for national aerial surveillance has been doubled.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you.

We'll now move to Mr. Toet for five minutes.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our guests for being here today. It has been very enlightening.

I want to come back quickly to the liability limit issue because I think there is some confusion on this, and I want to make sure that I have a clear understanding of it. In my understanding, it's the hazardous and noxious substances that are covered under this $185 million or, including the international fund, $400 million, which covers about 6,500 substances under the 2010 HNS protocol. In my understanding, that does not cover oil.

On the $400 million, we heard testimony a few weeks ago from the department that, to the best of their knowledge, there's never been an incident anywhere in the world that has cost even probably half that in cleanup, so the liability of $400 million seems to be a very reasonable level at this point in time.

I was wondering if each of you, or you, Ms. Legars, could speak specifically about that liability limit and, to your knowledge—and if anybody else has knowledge—about having incidents that would be even in excess of $200 million on the cleanup of any of these 6,500 substances covered under the HNS protocol.

[Anne Legars]

No, I don't have any knowledge of such a big spill that would have happened. So what we know is that this limit hasn't been reached and is far from having been reached yet.