Evidence of meeting #31 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was aviation.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Norman Chalmers  President, Pacific Airworthiness Consulting Inc.
Daniel Slunder  National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association
Christine Collins  National President, Union of Canadian Transportation Employees

9:35 a.m.

President, Pacific Airworthiness Consulting Inc.

Norman Chalmers

That's just reading from past records. The framework is there. The Aeronautics Act is there, the air regulations are there, the standards are there, and they were being used for inspections and audits. But under the new system, they're not being used anymore. The framework is there, but....

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON

In the union's resistance to the implementation of SMS, how many grievances have been lodged by your members?

9:35 a.m.

National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association

Capt Daniel Slunder

We do not resist the implementation of SMS.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON

How many grievances have been lodged in relation to organizational changes relative to the implementation of safety management systems?

9:35 a.m.

National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association

Capt Daniel Slunder

From our side, I've received none. It's not a labour—

9:35 a.m.

National President, Union of Canadian Transportation Employees

Christine Collins

It's about 1,000 for the changes in the jobs themselves.

I just want to add that the 13,000 that you referenced earlier includes the inspections and the audits.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON

That's actually not true. There's a separate column, and the same thing for audits.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Thank you.

Mr. Braid, you have seven minutes.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

I'll start with a question for you, Mr. Chalmers. Your presentation indicates that you've been involved in the aviation industry for many decades. As just a general, high-level question to start, over the course of the many decades you have been involved, has travelling by air become safer or not over the course of the decades you have been involved? Is it safer?

9:35 a.m.

President, Pacific Airworthiness Consulting Inc.

Norman Chalmers

Absolutely. It has become much safer, in my view and in my experience, and also on the world international level. Statistically it is much safer.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

What is underneath that increased safety, then, that you've witnessed? What factors have contributed to the increased safety that you have witnessed?

9:40 a.m.

President, Pacific Airworthiness Consulting Inc.

Norman Chalmers

That's a good question because it gets right to the core of aviation safety, and the improvement and the lack of need for SMS. It's on many fronts that aviation gets safer. It gets safer in the designs of aircraft, and that is very often mainly a result of research but also of accidents. Accidents happen and the design of aircraft gets better. An accident happens and the maintenance gets better.

Maintenance systems are getting better. Aircraft are getting smarter. The training requirements for aviation professionals such as maintenance engineers and pilots are gradually getting better. When there's a weakness seen in the old system, pre-SMS, anywhere from design to landing the airplane, something was done to tighten up and make sure that didn't happen again.

Also, running parallel to that, the worldwide insurance rates have made it impossible, or very difficult, for companies that are not safe to carry on business. So the combination of incremental learning over the years and the insurance companies putting their rates up, in my years, has dramatically increased safety in aviation flying.

June 5th, 2014 / 9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

Thank you for those additional explanations, and for clarifying that. I appreciate that.

Mr. Slunder, in your presentation you explain that Transport Canada expects to see the accident rate increase and to adjust its forecast performance targets to account for this. The increase, if it materializes, will equate to between 40 and 50 more accidents in 2014 than occurred in 2011.

We're almost halfway through 2014. How many accidents have there been?

9:40 a.m.

National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association

Capt Daniel Slunder

For this year, I've not gone to the Transportation Safety Board side yet to measure the numbers. Those are numbers that belong to Transport Canada—

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

Okay, but they're in your presentation, so I'm asking you to explain—

9:40 a.m.

National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association

Capt Daniel Slunder

If it materializes, it will amount to 40 to 50 more accidents.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

To your knowledge, how many have there been this year?

9:40 a.m.

National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association

Capt Daniel Slunder

I've not read that.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

Ms. Collins, just to come back to Mr. Watson's line of questioning, again, we're halfway through 2014. To your knowledge, how many audits has Transport Canada conducted this year?

9:40 a.m.

National President, Union of Canadian Transportation Employees

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

How many inspections have they conducted?

9:40 a.m.

National President, Union of Canadian Transportation Employees

Christine Collins

That's it, zero.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

Zero inspections...?

From your perspective, when was the last inspection that Transport Canada conducted within the context of the airline industry?

9:40 a.m.

National President, Union of Canadian Transportation Employees

Christine Collins

For a traditional inspection, it was around 2004.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

How do you define a traditional inspection and how is it different from what is happening today?