Transport Committee on June 17th, 2014

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

You were saying that Transport Canada holds it close to their chest and you can't do a safety check on what they may want for an SMS system. Why don't you propose, as associations, the type of SMS system they could have with the specific requirements for the small operator?

[Stephen Nourse]

Our particular organization simply does not have the resources for that. We actually prefer to work with the Canadian Council for Aviation & Aerospace and endorse their product as we feel it's appropriate.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you, and thank you to our witnesses.

This question is more directed to Mr. Nourse, and that's regarding the ability to find employees and pilots, especially for your northern remote airports, both for the ground services and your pilots. Is that any kind of challenge or is it very easy? Is there a surplus of qualified personnel who are willing to work up in those areas? Is it sometimes a challenge to fill those spots?

[Stephen Nourse]

It's definitely a challenge and it's becoming more so. We have a lot of programs and we're actually just setting up a training program to work with the local community colleges and high schools, because what we find is that people from the north tend to stay in the north and we have to try to figure out a way to encourage them to enter the aviation trades.

The aviation trades—pilots, mechanics, all of it—across Canada are actually in trouble. The college enrolment is down, demand is up, and yes, it's a challenge to get people in the north. Typically the north is a training ground. When people go north they either love it and stay forever, or they just can't wait and all they want to do is get that opening at WestJet or Air Canada and move on.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

The reason I ask that is that there seems to be constantly an assertion across the board and this whole concern with SMS that companies are going to use it—and it was raised in questioning earlier today—as a way to release employees, to let them go because something went wrong in the safety system. I guess the reality, from what you've just said now, is that companies that have proper well-qualified people are going to do everything they can to hang on to those people rather than looking for excuses to get rid of them. There seems to be this constant myth going out there that companies are looking for ways to get rid of employees.

[Stephen Nourse]

I would wholeheartedly agree with you. The employers right now are far more focused on retention than getting rid of people. The cost and investment in your pilots, your maintenance people, your cargo handlers, your DG experts, with what it takes to attract and then get those people properly up to speed, you do not want to get rid of them.

[Daniel-Robert Gooch]

If I may just add to that I would say on the airport side I would echo that comment. Transport Canada used to run airports. There was a large organization that served as a training ground for expertise in airport operations and when Transport Canada devolved airports to local airport authorities that expertise went there and the training ground kind of went away. Private sector and our organizations, Airports Council International with which we're affiliated, private colleges, have moved to fill the gap. But certainly personnel with expertise in airport operations and safety is something we look to the future with concern, to ensure that those professionals with experience are in the marketplace. Talent in that area with expertise in that area is something we are concerned about for the future.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

From a safety aspect there would come a point in time obviously if repeated warnings or if somebody shows a consistent pattern of behaviour, that you would have to deal with it. Your members would be very slow to go to that process. You would really want to do some education, some behavioural changes if need be. That would be much preferable before going to “here we go, you're out”.

[Stephen Nourse]

I was recently talking with one of our smaller members, and he was really bemoaning the fact that he finally had to let go a pilot he was bringing up through the ranks. The pilot wasn't going to work out, and the member was really upset at having to do it because of the time he had invested in this individual.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Hoang Mai]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Toet.

We have a bit more time, so we'll have a full round of five-minute questions each.

I'll start with Mr. Sullivan.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks again. I didn't get to ask too many questions of the airport authorities, so I'm going to move to you folks a little bit.

You have, in some airports at least, an SMS system now as opposed to direct inspections by Transport Canada. Does that include the security, the thing we all know and love, lining up at security to be scanned? Is that part of SMS as well, or is that an independent thing that is given to the airports by the government?

[Daniel-Robert Gooch]

Security is a different beast. At 89 airports throughout the country, screening—what you see when you're lining up as well as whole baggage screening and screening of non-passengers, which is employees essentially, the workers at airports—is conducted by the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority, which is a crown corporation of the federal government. Airports do have a role in security, but it's more in the areas of security that you as a passenger don't necessarily see.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

The airport authority is not directly responsible for that.

[Daniel-Robert Gooch]

It is not at those 89 airports with CATSA services.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Those security services are not considered part of an SMS system. I'm just thinking, for example, of the Edmonton incident with the bomb that got through. That's not the airport's responsibility.

[Daniel-Robert Gooch]

That would be screening. That's not an airport authority conducting the actual operation. That's CATSA.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Okay.

Mr. Mai is going to—

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

I'd just like to take a few seconds to move my motion that was sent out. Notice was given on June 5 about asking VIA Rail to come before the committee so we could ask them questions regarding the report. The annual report came out, and it was submitted to the House on May 6.

I know we don't have anything planned for Thursday, and I think that would be a good occasion for us to look at the study.

Also, because we have witnesses here, I would ask that the committee consent to talking about this motion later on during committee so that we don't waste the time of the witnesses. We can actually talk about this motion at the end of the rounds. Do I have consent?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, David McGuinty]

Does Mr. Mai have committee consent?

Mr. Watson.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

He's not moving his motion at this particular moment, so he's looking to move it after the rounds.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, David McGuinty]

Let's ask Mr. Mai.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

I'm moving it now, but I'd like to discuss it later.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

If he's moving it now, we have to discuss it now.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, David McGuinty]

With the consent of the committee, we can agree that he can move the motion and forego discussion until after we're finished with the—

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Chair, once the witnesses are dismissed, he can move the motion.