Evidence of meeting #34 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was airports.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:35 a.m.
Executive Director, Northern Air Transport Association
I can't talk to specific carriers and their intentions. Certainly we as an organization endorse the move to the 1:50 ratio where appropriate.
9:35 a.m.
NDP
Mike Sullivan NDP York South—Weston, ON
I'm aware that some of the carriers have actually asked to move to that, and I think one has been given an exemption already by Transport Canada. We have not had the finalization of the testing, the proof that it works. Our understanding is that the proof so far is that it doesn't work. But we're going to see how that plays out. In any event, do you believe it is safer to fly with fewer flight attendants?
9:35 a.m.
Executive Director, Northern Air Transport Association
I wouldn't categorize it as being safer. I would call it as safe, provided the exit arrangement on the particular aircraft is suitable.
9:35 a.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Hoang Mai
Thank you very much, Mr. Nourse.
Thank you, Mr. Sullivan.
Ms. Young, go ahead for five minutes, please.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
Thank you very much.
Your presentations have been truly excellent in terms of giving us a broad overview of what happened before and what you are facing now with all the changes, not just with SMS but, I think, with older infrastructure, older planes, and all of that sort of thing. I want to delve into that a little bit.
Quickly, just because time is always an issue, what happens with infrastructure in the north right now in other jurisdictions like Greenland, for example? Do they have short runways or gravel runways? What do they do?
9:35 a.m.
Executive Director, Northern Air Transport Association
Greenland put a tremendous amount of money into their system. Actually, the Danes put a tremendous amount of money into Greenland's system. They have a considerable number of paved runways. A lot of them are still shorter, because they are using STOL aircraft on them. They also have an extensive heliport program. They have a fairly sophisticated system.
Greenland also benefits from having, in most cases, year-round navigation up and down the west coast, which is significantly different as well.
Looking to the other side, there are something like 100-and-some paved runways in Alaska. There are a dozen in northern Canada.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
Mr. Gooch, whose jurisdiction is it with regard to building these runways? Is it a government thing? Is it an airport infrastructure project?
9:35 a.m.
President, Canadian Airports Council
The northern airports are generally operated by the territory.
In southern Canada we have a model where airports have been devolved, so we have 26 airports that are national system airports, where they officially are still on federal land. They pay rent to the federal government, but they are operated by the local airport authorities.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
It's the airport authorities' responsibility to oversee infrastructure. Is that correct?
9:40 a.m.
President, Canadian Airports Council
Generally, that is correct, yes.
Mr. Nourse is going to add something in the northern context.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
Very quickly, Mr. Nourse, please, because I have other questions.
9:40 a.m.
Executive Director, Northern Air Transport Association
If I could briefly speak to the territories, in all three territories, Yukon initially, the Northwest Territories, and then Nunavut when it was devolved, all of the airports were transferred from Transport Canada to the territorial governments. It's the three territorial governments that handle them. The territorial governments have done a wonderful job of maintaining those assets. The problem is that they simply do not have the funding or the tax base available to develop the airport.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
You are drawing a line between maintenance, of course, and building new infrastructure, the costs associated with that.
9:40 a.m.
Executive Director, Northern Air Transport Association
Correct. They've done a fabulous job of maintaining what was transferred to—
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
May I move on, just because of the time.
You note in your article that there are five different challenges for northern operators. I note that many of these are not safety or SMS-related. You talk about infrastructure, weather reporting. They are more external as opposed to regulatory, which the SMS is. Would you say that is correct?
9:40 a.m.
Executive Director, Northern Air Transport Association
They are all safety-related.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
I'm not saying they are not safety-related. I'm just saying they are more external. Building a longer runway is more external than doing a SMS safety inspection.
9:40 a.m.
Executive Director, Northern Air Transport Association
They're external to the organization, yes. They are absolutely external to the organization.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
Right.
My question, for Chris Farmer, please, is, which was more rigorous?
Chris, you outline that prior to SMS being implemented, there were annual inspections, and so on. Now SMS has been implemented. I know that statistically we've seen an increase in safety. Therefore, which is a more rigorous system, would you say, when the airlines are taking ownership of their own SMS and doing their own SMS audits?
9:40 a.m.
Director of Operations, Greater Moncton International Airport Authority, Canadian Airports Council
In my opinion, it's certainly a more rigorous system now, because now we are being informed of when safety incidents happen within the airline as it relates to the airport, or if an incident happens at an airport, we get the safety report. Also, if there's a safety concern from the airlines that's put forward, say, when a pilot is flying into our facility, we're made aware of it through their SMS. Essentially, we're almost heading to the point where one SMS is talking to another SMS.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
Basically, you are saying that the system is more rigorous today and therefore safer today. Is that correct?
9:40 a.m.
Director of Operations, Greater Moncton International Airport Authority, Canadian Airports Council
I would say that. Again, it goes back to what I'm saying, that now SMS makes safety tangible. Before it was just a concept. Now we're seeing it as tangible results, something we can measure and act upon and do—
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
Would you say that the system is working then, as it was envisioned and as it is implemented?