Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 11th, 2006

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

I simply want to say, Mr. Chairman, particularly because sometimes rules themselves can be rather sanitized and sometimes abrasive, that in no way, shape, or form, at least on our behalf here, does this shed any shadow on the great respect we have for Senator Dallaire, not only for his position as a senator, but also for the great service he's given to this country.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

All right. I think we've all pretty much said our piece on this. Hopefully, in future we'll have this dealt with differently.

Monsieur Perron.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Could I be the first one to speak? I'm not speaking against the presence of a senator or of Mr. Dallaire specifically but, if we create a precedent and let anyone sit at our table, whatever his or her position, this means that we will have to accept that anybody coming into this room will be entitled to sit at the table whether that person is to be a witness or not. According to our rules, only elected members can sit at this table.

Iif this were a joint committee of senators and MPs, there would be no problem but I think we should avoid creating a precedent and that is my concern.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

All right. I think we're now back to normal business.

Mr. Miller and Mr. Ferguson. As I said before, you have either 10 minutes each or 20 collectively, or however you may wish to do that. Then afterwards, in the normally prescribed method, members will have a chance to ask questions of our witnesses.

Gentlemen, the floor is yours.

[Brian Ferguson, Assistant Deputy Minister, Veterans Services, Department of Veterans Affairs]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll be delivering our collective remarks today. I thank you for this opportunity to appear before the committee to talk about a veterans bill of rights.

I am here today in my capacity as assistant deputy minister of veterans services branch, to provide my perspective on the creation of a bill of rights and its relationship to the activities that we conduct in the service of veterans. In that context, my remarks will focus on the areas within my purview that would complement the introduction of a veterans bill of rights. As the ADM of veterans services, I can tell you without a doubt that the bill of rights will be welcomed as an important addition to the department's client-centred service approach. We often refer to it as the CCSA. It was put in place several years ago to ensure that all clients, regardless of the point of contact, receive the appropriate service in a consistent, standardized fashion.

For your information, I might add that these services relate to the delivery of monthly disability pensions, medical benefits such as long-term care, the Veterans Independence Program and the treatment benefits, as well as financial support and the whole range of programs coming under the new Veterans Charter.

All of these programs are delivered through a client-centred approach. At the heart of the CCSA approach is a case plan that is built by highly trained staff with the full involvement of both the client and the client's family. This encourages them to make informed decisions about their own well-being. It fosters a sense of independence and dignity in their lives at a time when many are feeling very vulnerable.

I should note that this plan will be changed when the needs of the client change. It allows several specialists from different fields to work together and, if necessary, the needs of the client can be satisfied by calling on the expertise and resources of local and provincial partners.

We have 48 client service teams across the country, as part of our service delivery network. To further define what we can do and how we will do it, our department has already developed a clear set of service standards that define guidelines regarding the quality, accessibility, and timeliness of VAC programs and services.

For the benefit of the committee, I would like to take a few moments to tell you about some of the service standards that guide us in our day-to-day operations. To begin, our service standards clearly state that clients can expect to be treated with courtesy, equity, fairness, respect, and sensitivity. It lets clients know that we'll make a decision on their pension application within 24 weeks of the date the application was received. Some 95% of our pension applications are processed within 24 weeks; in fact, the average turnaround time is 16 weeks.

The standards tell clients we'll make a decision on a departmental review within eight weeks of receipt of application. If a client appeals a departmental decision through the Veterans Review and Appeal Board, a decision will be given to them in writing within 30 days of the date of the hearing. If a low-income client applies for income support through the war veterans' allowance, they have our assurance that a decision will be made within 30 days of the time we receive the complete application.

In every matter, we promise to respect clients' privacy, no exceptions. We make tremendous efforts to communicate our programs and services in clear, everyday words.

For the past five years we've produced a client newspaper that goes out to every single client and many others interested in matters related to veterans. Our circulation per issue now exceeds 260,000 copies. It goes all over the world and it's enormously successful. This publication, plus all others, is available in both official languages and in multiple formats so that we reach those who have vision or hearing problems.

To help ensure that we're measuring up to these standards, we regularly conduct a client satisfaction survey. In the third and latest survey conducted in May and June 2005, 84% indicated that they are satisfied with the services they get from Veterans Affairs Canada. That' s one of the highest ratings in all of government.

Clients who live in the many long-term care facilities under contract to us also get surveyed every year. Through this survey, we measure ten outcomes, ranging from their satisfaction with the food they are served, to the care they get, to how much access they have to such things as church services. Our last survey shows that 96% are quite pleased with the care they receive.

I would like to now briefly update you on our progress toward implementation of the new veterans' charter. As you may know, it came into effect in April 2006. It represents the most significant change in veterans' benefits and services since the end of the Second World War. This new charter is a comprehensive wellness package of programs designed to provide post-war Canadian Forces members, veterans, and their families with the means to make a successful transition to an independent and productive civilian life. The new Veterans Charter recognizes that the modern-day veteran, with an average releasing age of 36, has a right to and expects programs and services that are delivered in a timely manner, are responsive to their unique circumstances, and are based on need.

We're nine months into the new charter, and we now have data that confirms our approach is solid and the programs within it are working. One of the most telling examples of its success involves our rehabilitation program. Of the applications processed to date, 94% have been approved. This means that close to 800 CF clients are already getting the medical, psycho-social, and vocational help they need. Even more encouraging is that the approval turnaround time for this program is averaging a mere 38 days. This means that the people who need our help are getting it right away. This is very important, because our research shows that the earlier people get help, the better their chance of recovery.

Having implemented the new Veterans Charter, we would welcome the introduction of a veterans bill of rights as a logical next step.

We believe that the outcome of our approach, of the service delivery standards that we promote and of a new veterans' bill of rights would be to reinforce a long tradition in Canada, that of taking good care of our veterans.

I thank you again for this opportunity. Mr. Miller and I welcome your comments and suggestions.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Thank you. You've only taken up seven minutes.

Mr. Miller, is there anything else you wish to add, or will we go straight to questions?

[Ken Miller, Director, Program Policy Directorate, Department of Veterans Affairs]

No, I don't have any comments.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Fair enough.

Mr. Cuzner, you're first up, for seven minutes.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

I'd like to welcome and thank the witnesses today for their presentation. It was short, concise, and to the point. That's great.

I will ask one question about the charter before I ask about the bill of rights.

With the turnaround time on the applications, you say the outside is 24 months. Is that hard and fast from receipt of application to decision rendered? Is there a qualifier in there? I know it's not uncommon to require additional information, like medical information, from pertinent officials. Is that 24 weeks dependent on the movement of other information, or is it start to finish time?

[Brian Ferguson]

It is start to finish time, Mr. Cuzner.

If I may go back a bit in time, in about 1995 there was a major pension reform passed, with legislative change, in Parliament. It was undertaken then in the Department of Veterans Affairs because the turnaround times from start of application to actual award for first application were averaging eighteen months. The target set down at that time was a nine-month target, so it remained to be seen whether the department could actually achieve that. In fact, in 1996 when that was introduced fully, the department began almost immediately to meet that target.

Over the years, we've seen a tremendous increase in the amount of pension applications. At the time, we may have been averaging around 8,000 or 9,000 pension applications. Last year, we were over 28,000. In spite of that increase over the years, we have taken a number of measures to improve our productivity, such as the use of new technology and some SWAT teams that have been put together to analyze it. We couldn't reduce turnaround times in other ways that had been successful. So we've actually reduced the turnaround time to its current state in spite of that increase, and it has really been a remarkable experience within the department.

You were probably thinking about this, Mr. Cuzner. At one time, we had a service standard that required that all the information be available. With that information available, we were making a commitment that it would take us four months. We've decided to go back to this other standard simply because there really isn't anybody accountable for collecting that information unless we take the accountability to help the veteran to get it. We wanted to reflect it in the spirit of someone being accountable for the whole process, to reflect that in our turnaround time for official service standards.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Good.

I apologize to other committee members. I'm probably the newest member on the committee, so this may be common knowledge to the others at the table. I apologize if it is, but could you just give me the Reader's Digest version of the consultation that has been undertaken by the department, leading up to the development of the bill of rights? Could you make a comment on that?

Obviously, the Legion would be a major player here, with some of the recommendations that they would have brought forward to committee in past testimony. Do we see their recommendations being implemented into the bill of rights?

[Brian Ferguson]

As I indicated in my opening remarks, my focus today at the committee will be to focus on some of the services and benefits that the department provides and how we feel a bill of rights will actually help us overall in complementing that delivery system. In fact, as part of our client-centred service approach, it's going to really add an additional important dimension.

I'm not in a position today to further update you on that particular process, other than to confirm that it's under way and going well. I'm certain that my colleague Mr. Hillier, who is responsible for that file, will be pleased to come back and give you an update at a later time.

I should mention that he's doing that because we want there to be absolute clarity in terms of an independent look at the service delivery system from that perspective, so that the individual, entire job of delivery, under the ADM of veteran services, would not be seen to be also running that process, which is being run by my colleague, the ADM of corporate services.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

When reading through the testimony, what I drew from it was a concern about how families factored into some of the decision-making processes for some of the programs and applications going forward. Could you again give me a view of the role families now play when dealing with veterans?

[Brian Ferguson]

I think the biggest change has come about in terms of the new Veterans Charter.

I'll ask my colleague Ken Miller to give you an indication of the new kind of programming that's been introduced to assist families.

[Ken Miller]

It's a really good point, because the role that families play is quite critically important.

I'll address it in two ways. There are certainly benefits under the new Veterans Charter that accrue to family members, but I'd first like to speak to it from the point of view of involving family members in the decision-making process along with the veteran.

Keep in mind that when you're dealing with rehabilitation related to veterans, and it's their condition they're dealing with, the veteran has to agree to the participation of the family. But it's certainly something that we encourage very strongly at the time when veterans are sitting down with area counsellors or case managers in the field to talk about what their needs are, the level of their disabilities, and what kind of services should or ought to be in place to help them. We very much encourage the participation of the family, because there is often an impact on the family in certain ways through the nature of service, the disability, and so on.

It's also been our experience that family members have another perspective to offer. Sometimes when veterans may not wish to discuss certain things, the spouses or the family members may in fact bring certain issues to the forefront. When the veteran is agreeable to that as part of the process, it certainly helps us a great deal to identify needs and put certain benefits in place. It's the informal involvement of the family member.

On the more formal side, coming back to my point that there can be an impact on family members themselves, we created a number of benefits in the new Veterans Charter.

Firstly, if a veteran is disabled to the point he or she can't benefit from the rehabilitation program, those benefits would then become program benefits directly for a spouse. In other words, the focus of the design was such that if the benefit couldn't go to the veteran, we would try to assist the family.

There's a whole range of other benefits as well, which include things like access to counselling if the family members are dealing with issues themselves and, of course, very extensive death benefits if, in the unfortunate situation where that happens, the family needs access to income replacement and compensation for the loss of a family member. It's a fairly comprehensive involvement.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to Monsieur Perron for seven minutes.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Good morning, gentlemen.

Your colleague, Keith Hillier, gave us quite a challenge when he told us that veterans' bills of rights don't change anything to legislation, don't change anything to policies and don't change anything to service delivery standards. If that is so, what is the use of a veterans' bill of rights?

[Brian Ferguson]

As I said, I'm not certain what Mr. Hillier actually stated specifically.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

June first.

[Brian Ferguson]

But I can say that from the perspective of the department, on the departmental delivery side, we think the declaration or the bill will provide an important complement to the services we currently offer.

As you know, we have a number of mechanisms currently in place. We have service standards identified in the booklet that I brought today, our At Your Service booklet. I could read those out to you, if you wish, but we have that particular element of the existing service standards that have been established within the department.

We have a number of service mechanisms, such as our national call centre network. We have a joint centre for the care of the injured with the Department of National Defence. We have the Bureau of Pension Advocates to assist and provide free legal service within the department. We have a comprehensive range of mechanisms.

We see the bill of rights adding another important voice to the concerns of veterans. I know this committee has made an amazing contribution over the years. We're all there to try to improve services to veterans as much as we can. I think anything that adds to it would be seen as being exceedingly beneficial by those who have a service delivery role in the department. It's where we place the idea of a bill of rights.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Ferguson, you're acting like a politician : you're using lots of time.

I have several questions to ask and I would like to have brief answers. I only have seven minutes and a half at my disposal and, if you take eight minutes to digress, I won't be able to ask many of my questions.

I'm wondering. I have a striking example to mention to you and I don't want that to be repeated in the study that begins today. As far as an ombudsman is concerned, you have met with three veterans associations and you have suggested three options to them: a high official of the public service, someone reporting to the minister and selected by the minister, or someone selected by the minister but reporting to a veterans organization.

How come we've never heard of that? We got that information from people around us. Could you not brief us regularly to tell us about the progress made about your vision of an ombudsman and your vision of a Veteran's Bill of Rights?

The work is being duplicated. The people coming here have also been witnesses at your place. Unless the minister is the only one to know! However, as MPs, we're not aware of the information you have received and of all the consultations you have started. We don't know anything about that. Have you held any consultations on the Veterans' Bill of Rights? If so, could we have a copy of the results of those meetings, please?

[Brian Ferguson]

As I said earlier, certainly the consultation, or the process for getting consultations going, is under way, and I understand that it's going well.

I want to reiterate that my understanding of my appearance here today was to discuss—which I introduced and discussed in my opening remarks—the potential relationship of a bill of rights to the services and the mechanisms we currently have within the department. That was my understanding of what I was supposed to bring forward today. I'm certain there would be absolutely no objection to my coming forward at a future date with an update on the progress that's being made in this regard. I'm just not mandated to provide that today, because I understood that there was a different purpose to this meeting.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I like to make a suggestion. Why not ask the department's officials to come here to report every three, four or six months on the ombudsman or the Veterans' Bill of Rights? That might be interesting. It would give them the opportunity to tell us about the status of their consultations, which we could then compare to ours.

In fact, I've always had the impression that you and us are doing the same work and that this work is needlessly duplicated. This is time wasted by the veterans' associations, by us and also, at the end of the day, by you. Both organizations do the same thing but we're still at the same point.

[Brian Ferguson]

Thank you for that comment.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!