Thank you.
Evidence of meeting #18 for Veterans Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was veterans.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #18 for Veterans Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was veterans.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Anders
Thank you, Mr. Valley.
Now we move to Mr. Perron of the Bloc Québécois.
You have seven minutes.
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Gilles-A. Perron Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Good afternoon, Mr. Petit.
You are confusing me a lot. Could you give me a short history lesson, very short, since I only have seven minutes? You mention Aboriginals, Inuit and Métis, but then you mention a new group that I am not familiar with, the non-status.
Who are the non-status?
4:10 p.m.
President, National Aboriginal Veterans Association
They were people who were coming off reserve and weren't let back in. The government made that person, like everything else. It's people who were first nations people who came off the reserve and weren't let back in, or married off the reserve. They're non-status.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Gilles-A. Perron Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you very much. I did not understand the term non-status.
I agree with your requests, but we should talk about something else today. We should talk about care for veterans. I know that most veterans live in very remote areas. In Abitibi, where I come from in northern Quebec, there is a reserve in a little village called Notre-Dame-du-Nord.
How can we successfully uproot—unfortunately, that is what we are doing—an aboriginal person from his native land and from his family, and make him live out his days in a long-term care facility in Montreal, say? The poor soul will die before he gets to Montreal. I would like to hear your opinion.
4:10 p.m.
President, National Aboriginal Veterans Association
Yes, that's what'll happen. The thing is, it is the job of Veterans Affairs to find a way to protect these people and to keep them in their homes as long as possible. I think communication between.... Well, everybody knows if there are veterans in their communities. It's their job to do this. This is why.
They have a list of the people who served in the armed forces. That's why I'm saying that, and that's why we're here. They're not doing this.
For example, we have people up north who say they're not going back there because they're refused pension. They are told they don't qualify. It's stuff like that. People are really touchy on this, especially aboriginal people--really touchy. When you tell them they don't qualify, I tell them to go back, because the old saying was that you've got to go to the DVA three or four times before you get accepted. They say, “Well, I'm not going back there again.”
That's the way they think. You're not going to change them if they're 80 years old and, as you say, from northern Quebec. How do you communicate?
That's why I went to a newsletter. A lot of them can't read or write or understand. They've no education. How do you communicate? Some guy got up and said, “Well, get on your computer.” I said, “Christ, they haven't got computers, the guys up north.” Some of them have, and some of them haven't. They have to have people reading their mail for them. This is the way it goes.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Gilles-A. Perron Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
I am going to make another comment, and you can feel free to react.
I know that problems of health and isolation are the same for aboriginal veterans as they are for any elderly aboriginal who is not a veteran, who has not fought with the Canadian armed forces. It is a widespread societal problem, I suppose. I am thinking about health care on reserves and in remote villages and areas.
4:15 p.m.
President, National Aboriginal Veterans Association
Certainly it is, and that's what I'm saying. It's not only aboriginal veterans; it's other veterans and other people. The elderly people up north who don't have the care won't say too much, especially if they're native. They don't complain too much. It's a family affair, and it's still happening. I don't know how you solve that. It's to make contact with the family somehow and get in with the family. That's the way I work it. I try to get the younger people to talk, especially if they can't talk English or if they talk in their own language, Cree or what have you. When they start talking, then they'll go to see a doctor. They don't even want to go to see a doctor. It's very hard for them even to bring them to the hospital or the doctor's office. They don't want to go.
So what are you going to do about that?
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Gilles-A. Perron Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
That is the problem I face when I have to make recommendations to the government. We have to find solutions together, Mr. Petit and Mr. MacPhee. Would it be too expensive? How can we provide you with services or find any solution when there is a serious shortage of doctors and other professionals in places like Montreal, Toronto or Vancouver? We do not have enough professionals. Furthermore, distance is a serious problem in our health system. Solutions must be found, and that it is not easy.
4:15 p.m.
President, National Aboriginal Veterans Association
The thing is to communicate. Veterans Affairs have to communicate. We have nothing, and they don't communicate with us. That's the problem. As I just said, when I was with the Korean veterans, I wanted to phone all the veterans, and they wouldn't allow that. How are you going to--
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Gilles-A. Perron Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Sir, I am sorry, but we cannot blame the Minister of Veterans' Affairs. Some legislation, like the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act, is pretty convoluted. Exceptions might be possible, but they are not made because of the act. It is run by lawyers most of the time.
4:15 p.m.
President, National Aboriginal Veterans Association
The thing is, it's not my job to bring that forward. It's for the Department of Veterans Affairs to bring it to another department. We're very small, as you can see. We don't make too much noise. But the Minister of Veterans Affairs should be passing this on to the health people to have a program up north and have communications.
That's the key thing. How do we service these people? It doesn't matter if they're elderly, white, blue, or black; they're veterans. But they have to have a system to do that. I can't do that.
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Gilles-A. Perron Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Mr. Petit, unfortunately, our time has run out. I could have spent hours talking to you.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Anders
We have time yet, so there will be other opportunities.
Now we go to the NDP and Mr. Stoffer for five minutes.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Again, Mr. Petit, thank you for your service to our country as well.
To Mr. McPhee, thank you for the service to NAVA, for what you do as well.
Sir, you said they wouldn't let you call those veterans. Did they tell you why? Was there a legal reason or something?
4:15 p.m.
President, National Aboriginal Veterans Association
I believe it is because it's a policy of theirs not to let out any information like that on who they are.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
If they wouldn't let you do it, did you ask them if they could get someone in there to do it themselves?
4:15 p.m.
President, National Aboriginal Veterans Association
We went through this quite a few times. We've asked them. It's always the same answer: they don't have the staff to do that job. Do you know what I mean?
4:20 p.m.
President, National Aboriginal Veterans Association
If you don't have them, then hire more staff. There are a lot of bad stories about veterans being at home and nobody taking care of them. I don't want to go into it.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
Yes, sir. That's completely understandable.
Sir, you indicated it would cost about $200,000 to finish the beautiful monument. By the way, every night I walk by that monument on the way to my apartment, and it is very beautiful. So about $200,000, you figure, would finish it. Is that correct?
4:20 p.m.
President, National Aboriginal Veterans Association
Well, it would be $230,000 now, because it went up.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
We'll say $250,000.
You had talked about ensuring that all veterans receive the compensation amount. That means Métis, non-status, etc. Have you figured at all, Mr. MacPhee, how much that would cost? How many people would we be talking about in total? I know some of them may have passed on, and some of them are hard to find. You said before that there are about 4,000, but is the number higher than that?