Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 20th, 2007

[Darragh Mogan]

Yes.

I believe the minister has made a public commitment to try to bring this to government in the fall. I believe we are on track to do that, sir.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Okay.

I want to ask you, because of the convoluted eligibility rules that you mentioned in your presentation, is there any case in which there's a bed being used where the VIP would suffice, but because of these rules the person doesn't qualify for the VIP?

[Darragh Mogan]

Yes, unfortunately there are.

They would be people who have eligibility for our expensive contract beds but who do not have eligibility for the veterans independence program.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

So in fact once we get all the background work done there are some cases where it would be more beneficial to the veteran and save the government money as well.

[Darragh Mogan]

Yes, sir.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Also, when we had the Gerontological Advisory Council in--and I'm sorry, the time is now a blur to me--there was a campaign that they said was going on or was going to be started about active phone calling to veterans to make sure that veterans who did qualify understood the benefits they were qualified for and got them. Is that procedure still going on?

[Darragh Mogan]

We do have a capacity here called proactive screening. What that phone unit does is telephone veterans who we feel are at relatively higher risk of health incidents. We'll follow up on them rather than waiting for the veteran to tell us that something is wrong. That proactive screening unit is really a godsend to us in terms of our ability to reach out, and we use it quite regularly.

We could also use it to do surveys of veterans with particular needs that we might not otherwise be able to respond to.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

I don't expect you to have that by memory, but do you have any data that you could forward to the committee regarding just how effective those outbound calls are, how many veterans are actually being added to the rolls because of those?

[Darragh Mogan]

I don't know that we're necessarily adding veterans to the rolls. They would be people who are on the rolls now.

One of the things that we're doing, to get back to Mr. Gaudet's question, is contacting younger veterans who have gone through our transition interview process when they became veterans to follow up with them, especially the most severely disabled ones, to see how they're doing rather than waiting for them to call us.

We can provide you with data on the activity of the proactive screening unit. I think we actually have once before, but we'll be pleased to do that again.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

All right.

We're now going to move over to Mr. Valley from the Liberal Party for five minutes, and then Mr. Cannan for five minutes as well.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Mogan, you mentioned a couple of times that you spoke to us in May. I went back to my notes, and there's a big note--I'm not sure if it's to you or to myself, so I'll have to ask you again. If I asked this question in May, you'll have to forgive me.

We talked about the health care review that you're doing and we're doing, and how much involvement there is with the veterans themselves. Are the general public of Canada or the veterans aware that this is going on?

You mentioned something, and again, I'll use your words. It's kind of profound, but changes have been made whenever there is a political will for it. That's unfortunate, but that's probably the reality we live in.

How much are the public of Canada or the veterans aware that we're doing a health care review? We have many people who give us comments if they are neighbours of a veteran and they see a veteran suffering. The veteran himself may not comment, but maybe the neighbour would.

Have we ever done any general advertisements? Have we done any outreach anywhere in Canada, such as your newspapers, letting them know this is going on? You may have responded positively in May. I don't remember. As I said, this might be a note to myself.

Do you have any thoughts?

[Darragh Mogan]

The smart way for me to answer is to say it is a note to yourself, but it's not. You're quite correct.

The government had a choice to make on this one, and the choice we made was to ask the Gerontological Advisory Council--and they worked nearly for a year on this--to solicit views from the best and brightest in this country and internationally on what would make the most sense, given the complex eligibility rules we had, the fact that we aren't able to help 60% of war veterans, the fact that there are Canadian Forces veterans out there who need help when they're younger and older, and the fact there are primary caregivers who need help. We asked them to have a look at what we do and to give us advice.

The six major veterans organizations are on the Gerontological Advisory Council, but that isn't necessarily to restrict their advocacy; it is to ensure that they have the advantage of the best and brightest in this country on the questions that we asked. Their report is in the public domain. It's on our website. We submitted it to you, we'll submit it to anybody who wants to see it, and we solicit comments on that. We're getting quite a few.

I think the veterans community knows that we're doing it. We've had a process of talking to provinces about the policy basis for this--not to share views, because with a large cohort of baby boomers coming through, the lessons we've now learned about proper care of the elderly will pay dividends later on. Although we didn't seek a broad consultation mandate on this, in effect we've had all the benefits of a broad consultation mandate without the time necessary to get a specific mandate in that area. I'm quite confident we got pretty broad-based input, Mr. Valley, into our deliberations.

What we are waiting for, and with enthusiasm, is a report from the standing committee.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

Thank you.

There is a timeline on the VIP benefits that are extended to the widows of veterans; I believe it was sometime in the 1980s. What about extending the VIP to all the veterans' widows? This is something that has been campaigned on; it's something that's been said should be done. We know there is a large price tag for this, but at what level do you stop providing support for the widows? Is it following the timeline that was mentioned in the past?

[Darragh Mogan]

I'm constrained from answering. I understand your question, but that's probably a question that's better addressed to the minister, sir. I think there is a very broad awareness in the public service that supports Veterans Affairs, and from the Gerontological Advisory Council, of the very important role that voluntary primary caregivers play in the health of veterans. We're aware of that, and that awareness will have some effect on policy decisions down the way.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

In some of the input from some of the people you mentioned, especially the gerontological society, did they touch on that? I remember reading their report. I don't have it here in front of me. Did they comment on extending VIP to all veterans' widows?

[Darragh Mogan]

Yes, they did. One of the individuals who is on there is probably one of the foremost researchers on family caregiving in the country, if not North America. That's Professor Norah Keating from the Centre of Human Ecology at the University of Alberta. She's a very gentle and kind individual and she made her views on this subject very well known.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

Can you give us a snapshot of what she said?

[Darragh Mogan]

I don't know whether Norah appeared before your committee or not.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

Yes, she did appear. I saw her name in my book here.

[Darragh Mogan]

We'll see if we can get an extract from her and send it to you, sir. How's that?

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

All right. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Thank you very much, Mr. Valley.

Now we'll go back over to the Conservative Party and Mr. Cannan, for five minutes.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, gentlemen.

My name is Ron Cannan. I'm the member of Parliament for Kelowna—Lake Country in beautiful British Columbia. It's in the Okanagan Valley.

Just for your information, we have an aging population. We have the highest demographic in the census of metropolitan areas of people 65 and over--it's almost 16% of the population--and a good portion of those, of course, are veterans. We all want the best for our veterans and I'm looking forward to this holistic overhaul of the veterans health services review when it's completed.

Just following up on my colleague Mr. Sweet's questioning, I'm dealing with some of my constituents who wanted the veterans independence program so they could stay in their own homes, but they are not eligible; but, as you indicated, they would be eligible to go into the long-term care program, which is costing Veterans Affairs about $340 million a year. Do you have any idea how many individuals would be eligible to go on the VIP program and not for this long-term care program, and the potential cost savings for the government?

[Darragh Mogan]

I can't really speculate on that, but if we were to ask any ten veterans who are now eligible for long-term care in our own contract beds in larger centres where they would like to go, seven of the ten would say they'd like to stay in their own communities.