Evidence of meeting #15 for Veterans Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was son.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Francine Matteau  As an Individual

11:25 a.m.

As an Individual

Francine Matteau

Yes, of course. It will soon be three years; he has been waging this battle since August of 2007. The deadlines are never met. They always say that it takes from 6 to 12 weeks for the first contact, but in Nicolas' case, it took 26 weeks before he was able to arrange an initial meeting.

11:25 a.m.

Bloc

Guy André Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

I imagine that you are somewhat familiar with the criteria that are used to determine the amounts to be paid out and the lump sum amount. I presume there have been discussions, and that there is no agreement at this time on--

11:25 a.m.

As an Individual

Francine Matteau

No, there is no agreement. Nicolas sustained injuries to both legs. I believe he has 23 or 24 screws in his heel. But by some miracle, he survived: they saved his legs and he is still alive. So, you are right to say that we do not agree, because they are treating his two legs together, which is totally unacceptable, in my opinion. They refuse to consider those injuries separately, to each of his legs, and provide a specific amount for the injuries sustained to one leg and another specific amount for the injuries sustained to the other leg. He has had a bone graft, has a steel rod, and is really suffering the after-effects of the injuries he sustained to both legs, including a loss of balance.

11:30 a.m.

Bloc

Guy André Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

You said that he is suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder.

11:30 a.m.

As an Individual

11:30 a.m.

Bloc

Guy André Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

When did you realize that he was affected by post-traumatic stress?

11:30 a.m.

As an Individual

Francine Matteau

Well, I obviously realized it, because Nicolas convalesced in my own home. I did not want him to go to an institution; I preferred to have him stay with me. At the same time, this gave me an opportunity to be with him when he felt the need. I realized it primarily because of his mood swings and aggressiveness—for example, when he would say he did not want to talk about something or he just wanted to be left alone, and then he would come to see me a half-hour later to talk.

You know, these people are very unstable. It has been almost three years. He was closely followed by a psychologist, but even now, his mood will change suddenly. Just having to look for a set of keys, even though it is not much, can set him off.

11:30 a.m.

Bloc

Guy André Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

I would say they are not only unstable, they are unpredictable as well.

11:30 a.m.

As an Individual

Francine Matteau

Yes, completely unpredictable.

11:30 a.m.

Bloc

Guy André Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

So, he has been offered a lump sum amount--

11:30 a.m.

As an Individual

11:30 a.m.

Bloc

Guy André Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

--without necessarily considering his state of mind per se.

11:30 a.m.

As an Individual

Francine Matteau

No, not really—so far.

11:30 a.m.

Bloc

Guy André Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Whatever the individual's state of mind, he is given a lump sum amount. As you were saying, post-traumatic stress does not necessarily manifest itself immediately in a returning soldier; it can develop afterwards. When the individual comes back, he is given an amount of money, but no one really knows how he will react or deal with that money.

11:30 a.m.

As an Individual

Francine Matteau

No, exactly. Post-traumatic stress does not necessarily appear immediately. It may appear only several years later, in a specific situation. For example, one man talked about his keys being the trigger: he would think they were the keys to his armoured vehicle. Sounds or smells can also act as triggers. The fact is that these symptoms may only appear several years after the fact.

11:30 a.m.

Bloc

Robert Vincent Bloc Shefford, QC

People are always talking about the lump sum payment as being significant, but a lump sum amount of $269,000 is only granted in unique cases. Let us face the facts: not everyone is deemed to have a 100% disability rate. That means that someone whose disability rate has been set at 10%, 12% or 20% may receive a lump sum amount of $50,000. If that person cannot be retrained or go back to school and get a college diploma, then he is left to fend for himself and nothing happens; he has no other salary. Can someone like that continue to receive an amount corresponding to 75% of the gross salary on a permanent basis, like others can? I think your son is receiving it because his disability has been set at 100%, or almost.

11:30 a.m.

As an Individual

Francine Matteau

The 100% rate has not yet been recognized in his case, but we have our fingers crossed.

11:30 a.m.

Bloc

Robert Vincent Bloc Shefford, QC

It has been almost three years and you have not even got that far. According to what departmental officials told us, this is a very simple process. People do not even have to go to court; they are assessed and given an amount corresponding to 75% of their salary, and then sent for rehabilitation. According to the schedules they provided, everything is done in the same year. In the space of eight or nine months or a year, everything has been resolved and all is well. But the reality is a little different.

I would be interested in hearing your comments on that.

11:30 a.m.

As an Individual

Francine Matteau

Yes, the reality is quite different. Of all my son's friends and acquaintances, none is satisfied with the treatment he has received. They have all gone from one appeal to the next. It is frustrating, and it is difficult for them to be constantly reliving these events. I can tell you that in August, my son will have been going through this for three years, and it is still not resolved. There are others whose situation is even worse. I know of no one who has seen his case resolved quickly—not one. It is all well and good to look at what it says in the book about how things are supposed to work, but the fact is that, in actual practice, that is not at all the way they work.

And I would like to add one more thing. Because my son has more than 10 years of service—he will have 12 or 13 by the time he is fully released—he will be entitled to a monthly pension from the Canadian Forces. It is not much—only about $1,100 a month, because it is part… I do not know what the exact amount will be.

However, people who have less than 10 years of service receive a pension that corresponds to only part of the full amount. Imagine if he has nothing left of the $200,000 or $150,000—it is based on his injuries, and as I said earlier, you have to fight long and hard to obtain the maximum benefit and provide evidence as well. He will no longer have any basic income.

For example, if he ends up having to do what the person I talked about earlier did, and take a security guard course, he will be earning $25,000 a year. Nicolas was telling me that nowadays, even beginners, or combat soldiers, earn about $40,000 a year, at the beginning of their career.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

Thank you, Madame Matteau.

11:35 a.m.

As an Individual

Francine Matteau

So, when their salary drops to $25,000, that is a huge loss of income for them.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

Merci, Madame.

Now we'll go to Mr. Stoffer for five minutes.

May 25th, 2010 / 11:35 a.m.

NDP

Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Madam Matteau, thank you for coming today and supporting your son and other veterans of his age.

You bring up a very good point today, which hasn't been discussed very frequently within our committee, about the types of jobs they receive, even after their training, when they're out of the military. As you were saying, in many cases the benefits and salary may not come even close to what they were making in the military. If you look, for example--

11:35 a.m.

As an Individual

Francine Matteau

Mr. Stoffer, could I ask you to speak slowly, please? Thank you.

11:35 a.m.

NDP

Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS

You bring up a very good point regarding the amount of money they could make in the private sector compared to what they were making in the military, along with all the benefits. I look at a captain's wages, for example. They could be anywhere from $70,000 to $90,000, I assume. So if that person, like your son, gets retrained and goes into the private sector and makes about $40,000 a year, that's quite a drop in income. That would also have a mitigating effect on the personal problems they're already experiencing, because they were making a decent salary before and now they're not. I'm just wondering about your advice on this.

We already have a number of people within the military who are getting full pay plus a veteran's pension of some kind, maybe for a slight disability, but they're still serving their country. Many of these people, like your son, have been medically released out of the military. So I'm looking for your advice. Is there something we should be looking at within the military that your son could be retrained for so he could go back into the service? Is there another role in which your son and others could serve their country while still wearing the uniform, but not necessarily a combat role? Would something of that nature appeal to your son? Have you talked to your son about that?