Evidence of meeting #16 for Veterans Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was charter.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Gordon Moore  Dominion President, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion
Gordon Jenkins  President, Head Office, NATO Veterans Organization of Canada
Percy Price  Acting Director of Advocacy, Head Office, NATO Veterans Organization of Canada
Brad White  Dominion Secretary, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion

4:40 p.m.

Acting Director of Advocacy, Head Office, NATO Veterans Organization of Canada

Percy Price

Yes.

Indeed, if you go back post-war, that was one of the priorities of Veterans Affairs, employing veterans at AECL, Atomic Energy, or government people. But it might well be, as said by the Legion, that a person might not be qualified. That's why I recommended that indeed he or she be given priority to go to college or university, to be upgraded.

I certainly believe that if a veteran or RCMP is qualified in certain positions within the government—I don't like the idea of bumping civilians, but I think that veterans are special people; in particular, they fought in war or have been injured—he or she certainly should be given priority for employment, as I recommended in the presentation for the NATO Veterans.

March 6th, 2014 / 4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Bryan Hayes Conservative Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Thank you.

I think the minister has done well in terms of introducing legislation that provides $75,800 for veterans to get a university or college education. I think that was outstanding.

Mr. Price, again, you made a broad statement earlier that you believe there needs to be a higher standard of service delivery. I don't want to talk about the office closures, because we can debate that. You mentioned that in context at the same time.

What I'm looking for is specific recommendations for the criteria you are seeking, because that's a pretty broad statement. To define service standards, you really have to be pretty explicit in terms of exactly what you're looking for with service standards.

I do want to throw in that if you're not prepared to answer that in detail today, that's okay. Perhaps you could put something in writing afterwards that would clearly define what higher standards of service delivery you're actually looking for specifically, because that was a pretty broad statement. But I leave it to you to make a comment.

4:40 p.m.

Acting Director of Advocacy, Head Office, NATO Veterans Organization of Canada

Percy Price

I hope I can understand what you mean by a “broad statement”, sir, but I think I can.

For an example, last night I received a call from a veteran in Cape Breton. He has PTSD and other pension conditions. He made a submission on November 1 for a reassessment on his attendance allowance. He got a letter yesterday, which is about three or four months later, and he calls to say, “What's the delay?”

“Well, we're overloaded. We're too busy.”

So there's something there. I've gone into the Gatineau office with a veteran and said, “What's going on here? How come he hasn't heard about this?”

“Well, sir, we're down in staff. We're overloaded. It's still in the basket."

It's been there for three months.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Bryan Hayes Conservative Sault Ste. Marie, ON

So what specifically would you think would be a reasonable response time? That's where I was going when I said you made a broad statement. Now we're being specific. What would be a reasonable response time?

4:40 p.m.

Acting Director of Advocacy, Head Office, NATO Veterans Organization of Canada

Percy Price

There's no reason that a response cannot be back to that veteran within 30 days.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Bryan Hayes Conservative Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Within 30 days? That would be what your anticipation would be?

4:40 p.m.

Acting Director of Advocacy, Head Office, NATO Veterans Organization of Canada

Percy Price

Yes, and 90 days is far too long, sir.

This is becoming a general reality across the board. I have details of names, but I'm not going to breach that at all. If you want, sir, I can certainly provide you with more detailed information.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Bryan Hayes Conservative Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Thank you, I would appreciate that. That's good.

I have one more question I want to get across to Mr.—

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr

You have to all be quick.

You have 10 seconds.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Bryan Hayes Conservative Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Mr. White, why two years? Why not three years? Why not one year? Why not five years?

Who would do that study in two years? Would that be this committee again?

4:40 p.m.

Dominion Secretary, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion

Brad White

Why not continually?

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Bryan Hayes Conservative Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Well, you said two years, so that's why I'm asking.

4:45 p.m.

Dominion Secretary, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion

Brad White

We wrote two years, okay, but why not continually? Anybody who does a strategic review should be having an ongoing strategic review about what their programs—

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Bryan Hayes Conservative Sault Ste. Marie, ON

I would agree with that.

4:45 p.m.

Dominion Secretary, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion

Brad White

—and services are. An ongoing review to make sure that we're meeting the needs of our veterans is required.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Bryan Hayes Conservative Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Thank you.

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr

Thank you very much.

Mr. Hawn now, please, for six minutes.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As a NATO veteran and a member of Legion 175 Kingsway in Edmonton, I welcome you all. I appreciate the work you have done and the work you are doing and the work I know you will do, and the rest of the veterans here.

In your sort of chapters 1 and 2 here in the Legion submission, I think you made some fair statements. There's a lot of talk about the lump sum versus the new Veterans Charter, and how a fairer evaluation should include all of the benefits that are accessible and should include an overview of additional benefits available under SISIP. Comparisons continue to be made between the disability award lump sum paid out and the monthly disability pension paid out under the Pension Act, and these comparisons do not provide a fair overview of what is provided under the new Veterans Charter. I would agree with that.

There are a host of benefits under the new Veterans Charter. To me the issue has always been access and burden of proof, that we make folks jump through too many hoops to get to it. To me that issue is burden of proof. We set the burden of proof too high. I haven't heard anybody here today say it, but there's an insurance company mentality within VAC that says you'd better prove beyond a show of a doubt that you need the benefit, and I understand why they do that.

The other issue to me has always been transfer of information—call it communication—between DND and Veterans Affairs. Because of the Privacy Act getting in the middle, they can't just transfer information back and forth. If we could lower that burden of proof—and there's no magic number—to something more reasonable and get the Privacy Act out of the way of communicating, how far would that go in a philosophical way to helping the problem? I know you can't give a definitive answer.

4:45 p.m.

Dominion President, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion

Gordon Moore

When the Canadian Armed Forces knows that an individual is going to be leaving within a period of time, that is when Veterans Affairs should be brought into the picture. From that point on—let's say he has a physical injury and he's also suffering from PTSD—Veterans Affairs should be involved right through to the very end when that individual is healthy and able to contribute again to society. At that time, Veterans Affairs should pull back but also stay in contact with the family for at least the next two to three years to make sure that everything is going “according to Hoyle”.

4:45 p.m.

Dominion Secretary, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion

Brad White

The chair will probably recognize that we've said this before, but the transition process of the individual from being a member of the Canadian Forces to being a client of Veterans Affairs is probably one of the trickiest transition processes of all, particularly if that individual is suffering from a physical or mental disability or injury that they have to deal with. The individual has to be held very closely. The have to be watched closely, and—you're right—they need accessibility to the programs that are there. But there's also the issue of harmonization among programs that the Department of National Defence offers under SISIP and what is being offered by Veterans Affairs under the new Veterans Charter and the Pension Act.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB

You're saying these things are complementary, but they need to be harmonized.

4:45 p.m.

Dominion Secretary, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion

Brad White

They need to be harmonized very much, because right now there are differences in some cases.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB

Okay.

I just want to correct something you said, Mr. Moore. When a class C reservist is on duty in Afghanistan and he gets injured in that theatre, he's treated the same way as a regular force member.

4:45 p.m.

Dominion President, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion

Gordon Moore

He's treated the same way?

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB

Yes.