Debates of March 24th, 1998

Wayne Easter Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Fisheries and Oceans

The member could not be further from the truth, Mr. Speaker. If you look at the report and read it, you will see a supplementary opinion and a number of members decided that rather than get into this witch hunting that you seem to be promoting we wanted to move forward—

John Duncan Vancouver Island North, BC

Mr. Speaker, British Columbians have been following the Pacific salmon treaty discussions and they have seen four years of inaction. They have seen hundreds of meetings, two negotiators and countless empty promises.

What is the result? A 50% reduction in quotas and 5,000 fishermen and fish plant workers laid off.

Why will the Prime Minister not tell the minister of fisheries to stop talking and take action or find someone who will?

Lloyd Axworthy Minister of Foreign Affairs

Mr. Speaker, we have made very significant advances in coming to grips with the United States on getting a solution. We had the Ruckelshaus-Strangway report which recommended a series of steps. We have during the visit of secretary of state Madeleine Albright come to an agreement on a new negotiating regime which will focus specifically on getting an agreement for this spring fishing season and at the same time establish a proper framework of negotiations.

There are two countries to the treaty. We have to get agreement between the two countries. To follow the hon. member's advice—

John Duncan Vancouver Island North, BC

Mr. Speaker, the fisheries minister and the foreign affairs minister do not know who is in charge for starters.

The fisheries minister is always talking conservation, conservation, conservation. What about honesty, integrity and leadership on this issue?

The priority of the fisheries minister has been to avoid upsetting the Americans. Meanwhile 5,000 fisheries workers are going to be out of a job.

Why will the Prime Minister not give the job to someone who will do it?

Lloyd Axworthy Minister of Foreign Affairs

Mr. Speaker, it seems to me that the hon. member has a very distorted sense of priorities. He criticizes the minister of fisheries for being concerned about conserving the fish stocks. If there are no fish, there are no fishermen. We must get a co-operative framework in which the two countries of North America can work together to preserve the fish stocks and preserve the livelihood of the fishing communities.

Yvan Bernier Bonaventure—Gaspé—Îles-De-La-Madeleine—Pabok, QC

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

The Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans is now convinced of the federal government's responsibility in the collapse of northern cod stocks and of its obligation to provide support to fishery workers affected by the moratorium.

Since fish stocks have not yet been renewed, and thousands of fishers still have no way of earning a living, will the Prime Minister admit his government's responsibility for mismanaging the fishery and will he promise to make money available to extend the TAGS program?

Jean Chrétien Prime Minister

Mr. Speaker, the Atlantic fisheries crisis began before we were elected to office. We assumed our responsibilities.

Four years ago, we implemented a program to support fishers and fishery employees. The program is scheduled to end this year, and the government is now looking at what it can do. The Minister of Human Resources Development is working on this right now, and we hope that it will be possible to announce something concrete in the coming weeks.

Yvan Bernier Bonaventure—Gaspé—Îles-De-La-Madeleine—Pabok, QC

Mr. Speaker, since the Prime Minister does not seem to have abandoned the idea of extending the TAGS program, can he tell us whether or not he shares the opinion of colleagues in his own party regarding the federal government's responsibility for the mismanagement?

Jean Chrétien Prime Minister

Mr. Speaker, we inherited this problem from the former government. As soon as we formed our government, and although we were in very difficult financial shape, we created a program to provide support to Atlantic fishers at a time when the deficit stood at $42 billion. We assumed our responsibilities in the wake of the disaster caused by the mismanagement of the Conservative government of the day.

Jean Chrétien Prime Minister

Mr. Speaker, I am very proud of the senators I have named. They are working very well. I believe I put a lot of pressure on Senator Thompson to resign and I am happy to see that he listened to what we asked him to do.

Bill Gilmour Nanaimo—Alberni, BC

Mr. Speaker, obviously the Prime Minister has learned nothing from his past mistakes. He is going to make those same mistakes over and over again.

Even the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs and President of the Queen's Privy Council admits that “we cannot boast of the most democratic Senate in the world”. At least one member on the government side recognizes that the Senate is undemocratic.

Apparently the Prime Minister has learned nothing from the Thompson and Fitzpatrick affairs. When will the Prime Minister allow Canadians to democratically elect their own senators?