Debates of June 6th, 2000

Human Resources Development

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. These comments are getting too personal. I would ask members to temper their language. I think we are getting a little bit out of hand.

I will permit the minister to answer the question if she would like to, but we will not have any personal attacks on one side or the other today.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, all I would like to say is that no accusations and no insults will change the facts in this case.

What is clear is that the department has taken the work of the internal audit very seriously. We have provided that information to the Canadian public. We have shown them how we are going to make improvements and we have actually shown them that we have made improvements.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, what I would like to make clear is that her top bureaucrats, officials and personal staff spent much of last fall in a frenzy trying to prepare for the fallout that was going to be coming forward because of this now famous audit.

Damage control plans were in full swing last August to prepare for the fallout but that did not phase the minister. Between August and December she shovelled another $500 million out in programs, the very programs that bungled the first billion dollars.

If everyone else around the minister knew the results and the damage, why did they let her keep that chequebook in her hand?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member makes reference to the top bureaucrats and the people in my department. I just want to say to the House, and particularly to that member, that the members of the Department of Human Resources Development have been working around the clock, 24 hours a day, to improve the administration of grants and contributions because they agree with the government that those contributions make a difference in the lives of Canadians in every part of the country, including the hon. member's riding.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, I would also like to credit the HRD people and officials with doing great work. It is a pity there is such political interference from the top that they are not allowed to do their jobs.

While the Philippines were collapsing, Imelda just kept on buying shoes. Poor Imelda, she was the last to know about any disaster happening in her country.

It seems to me that the film idea Yes, Minister was a great take-off on this, except that it was fiction in Britain. It was supposed to be a spoof that was funny. It is reality here now in Canada.

In spite of the government's billion dollar bungle, the minister carried on and flushed another $500 million out in programs. Was the taste of that first bungle just—

[The Speaker]

The hon. Minister of Human Resources Development.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member talks about flushing $500 million out in programs. Do members know what those programs included? They included programs that gave young people who were on the streets the opportunity to come into a place with a roof over their heads and to get some training and self-respect. In this particular case, I am thinking of the Servants Anonymous Society in the city of Calgary where a young woman turned to me and said “Without this grant I would be dead”.

Is the hon. member suggesting those were tax dollars that were unwisely spent? If she is, she should say so.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, here is the minister's story. She said that on August 9 she had a briefing from her officials on the hottest issues but that somehow they forgot to remind her of the hottest issue of all, the internal audit. By October 20 everyone in the department, from the mailroom clerk on up, knew about the internal audit except for the minister who, like a mushroom, was kept in the dark.

I know this is all very painful for the minister but I wonder if she could tell us what her bureaucrats told her to say about why she was out of the loop for those three disastrous months.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, we have been over this countless times and we will go over it once again.

More than a year ago the department identified that it should do an internal audit on its grants and contributions. Over the course of a period of time the audit was undertaken. The audit was not even complete during the timeframe to which the hon. member has made reference, which was the summer. The auditors were still in the field collecting information.

As I have said before, as a result of the preliminary findings the department took action, which is as it should be. I can tell the House that the first time I was briefed on the internal audit was on November 17, and that was appropriate.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister does not even have the good sense to be embarrassed about her ignorance of the situation.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

I want the member to go directly to his question.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, how can Canadians have any confidence in a minister who stands up and proudly proclaims “Hey, how can you blame me? I was out of the loop for three months?”

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps you have noticed, in the tone of the question from the opposition member, that yet again it is really nothing but an insult. I remember that it was that party in 1993 that said it was coming to the House of Commons to improve decorum. Whatever happened to that?

Canada Information Office

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we learned that, in 1997-98, another friend of the government, lawyer Richard Mongeau, now a judge, received $160,000 from the Canada Information Office, while working for the firm Administration Leduc et Leblanc, which was awarded a $50,000 contract without tender to provide communication services, after contributing $15,000 to the Liberal Party fund.

Could the minister tell us why Richard Mongeau received that money? Is it as a political analyst, legal counsel or contributor to the party fund?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, during its first few years, the Canada Information Office, which is a small body, had to rely on outside professional services, until there were enough public servants to allow it to do its job. Mr. Mongeau was paid for his professional services.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, let us look at an example of professional services.

Here is the kind of analysis made by Mr. Mongeau for the firm Administration Leduc et Leblanc. The memo reads as follows “A review of Quebec's weeklies shows that the member for Verchères again criticized the federal government's decision to withdraw its annual contribution of $7.2 million to the Tokamak project, in Varennes”. Incidentally, these criticisms were made in the House.

Are such analyses worth $50,000, not to mention the amount of $160,000 received as legal counsel by that person, who was appointed a judge by the government during the same period?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, again, Mr. Mongeau was asked to provide services to the CIO and I believe he provided these services according to the treasury board's rules and guidelines.

I realize that the member, the leader of the Bloc Quebecois, may not agree with all the things we do to improve the situation in Quebec and to be in touch with Quebecers to explain what the Canadian government does for them. I know they are not pleased with this situation, because they are only here to destroy the country, while we are here to build it for all Canadians.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, allow me to read you a message addressed to Jean Pelletier, the Prime Minister's chief of staff:

An analysis of the regional press review reveals that the following businesses from the Saguenay region participated in the team Quebec trade mission to China: Le Centre Québécois de recherche et de développement de l'aluminium, Alumiform, Microvel, Groupe conseil Saguenay.

The message was signed by Richard Mongeau, information service.

Why did the CIO, the Canada Information Office, have to pay Richard Mongeau $50,000 to send this sort of note? Are there not already enough professionals to monitor the print media in Quebec—

[The Speaker]

The hon. minister of public works.

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, as I said at the outset, in its early years, the CIO lacked the organization it needed to fulfil its mandates internally. So it turned to professional firms, and that is what Mr. Mongeau did.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would remind the minister—and he must be aware of it—that Mr. Mongeau is a lawyer, not an information analyst. He in fact pays him $160,000 as the CIO's legal adviser.

Why did the minister pay Mr. Mongeau $160,000 to be the CIO's legal adviser and $50,000 to be an information officer at the same time, in the same year? Were so few resources available in all of Canada and Quebec that only Richard Mongeau could do all the jobs?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps the hon. member should look to the mother house and grasp the fact that the Government of Quebec, with its great organization, is handing out contracts to individuals to do analyses.

I can tell you about a contract worth $10,000 that they handed out for an analysis of sponsorship agreements signed by departments over the past three years, develop a policy and a table of comparison and make recommendations.

Perhaps he should put the question to the Government of Quebec and their mother house.

Workplace Safety

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, it has been eight years since the Westray disaster, three years since the Westray inquiry recommendations and yet hundreds of workers still die on the job in this country every year because of employer indifference or outright negligence.

The Westray bill would strengthen the criminal code and bring Canada's law in line with other countries.

My question is simple. Will the Minister of Justice finally and urgently introduce the necessary amendments to the criminal code?