Debates of June 10th, 2005

Mauril Bélanger Minister for Internal Trade

Mr. Speaker, if there is someone who has gone into hiding, it is certainly not the Prime Minister's chief of staff. It may be someone else on that side of the House.

However, there is mention of tapes. I still wonder how these members subscribe to the theory of pristine tapes when five independent experts, not partisan experts, have testified that these tapes have been altered, doctored, spliced, sliced and reduced from four hours to two hours.

To ask for anybody to step aside on the basis of such tapes is ludicrous.

Jeff Watson Essex, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is time they updated their talking points. A leading audio expert has confirmed that the full recordings are “clean and unedited”. What is not clean is the Prime Minister's right-hand man, Tim Murphy, who apparently offered plum government positions to poach an opposition member for a crucial vote. The government will stop at nothing to stay in power.

Will the Prime Minister finally admit his right-hand man was caught red-handed in these recordings?

Mauril Bélanger Minister for Internal Trade

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister will admit to no such thing because it is not the truth.

The truth is the member for Newton—North Delta sought to cross the floor. The Prime Minister was aware of that. He advised his chief of staff and the Minister of Health not to make any offers. None were made.

Now those people would want the Prime Minister's chief of staff and the Minister of Health to step aside on the basis of tapes that have been doctored, spliced, sliced and shrunk from four hours to two hours. Even their partisan experts recognize that they have been tampered with.

Jean Lapierre Minister of Transport

Mr. Speaker, I thought the hon. member, as an MP from Quebec, would have been happy with a health agreement that ensured the transfer of $41 billion to the provinces. This means $9 billion more for the Government of Quebec.

I hope he will also be happy with the upcoming agreement with the municipalities on providing help for infrastructure. This will transfer $5 billion to municipalities throughout Canada, including some $500 million to $600 million to municipalities in Quebec.

As for equalization, adjustments to the tune of $30 billion were made. This relieves some of the financial pressure—

John McKay Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, the report referenced by the hon. member was originally referred by the House to the committee. It assumed a fiscal imbalance. Then a study was purportedly carried on by the subcommittee which assumed a fiscal imbalance. Then the witnesses appeared to be loaded somewhat heavily toward treasurers of provinces and premier of provinces, all of whom seemed to have some interest in it. To no one's great surprise the report says that there is a fiscal imbalance.

André Bellavance Richmond—Arthabaska, QC

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister could save everyone a lot of trouble and make the RCMP's job easier by simply answering our questions about the timing of when he became aware of a member of Parliament trying to sell his support.

Could the Prime Minister tell us why he is stubbornly refusing to answer this very simple question? When exactly did he learn that a member wanted to get something in return for supporting the government?

Mauril Bélanger Minister for Internal Trade

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister was informed of the intention of the member for Newton—North Delta to cross the floor of the House and join the Liberal caucus. He told his senior adviser and the Minister of Health that no offer was to be made, and none was made. If members opposite have any other information at this time, it should be provided to the RCMP, which will decide whether or not an investigation is required and will act accordingly.

André Bellavance Richmond—Arthabaska, QC

Mr. Speaker, the member confirms that the Prime Minister was informed, but what we want to know is when.

Does the Prime Minister realize that, by refusing to answer this very simple question, he is himself raising questions about what really happened in this matter?

Mauril Bélanger Minister for Internal Trade

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister was informed that the member for Newton—North Delta wanted to cross the floor of the House and join our caucus. He gave instructions that no offer was to be made to this member. No offer was made.

If the members opposite, who, incidentally, have already referred the matter to the RCMP, have anything else, they should contact the RCMP. In the meantime, they should let the RCMP do its job.

Irwin Cotler Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, I agree that it will have an impact on rights and freedoms. It will protect rights and freedoms. It will protect both equality and religious freedom.

I have continued to say that the legislation is anchored in the rule of law, in the charter and in the jurisprudence of this country which protect both equality and religious freedom.

We remain open. If there are any amendments that can give further certainty to the protections already there, we are prepared, within the democratic process, to consider such amendments.