Debates of Oct. 18th, 2007

Lawrence Cannon Minister of Transport

Mr. Speaker, I have two things to say. First, we will recall that the Bloc Québécois voted with the government to solve the fiscal imbalance.

Second, once again, Quebeckers know very well that when this government gives its word and promises to do something, it will happen.

Jack Layton Toronto—Danforth, ON

On the contrary, Mr. Speaker, far too often the Prime Minister says one thing and does another.

I will give an example. On January 12, 2006, the Prime Minister said on CBC that cabinet should consist only of elected members. Just a few days later he appointed Michael Fortier to the Senate and to the government's cabinet. Yesterday he said he thinks that, perhaps, the Senate should be abolished. We agree.

Why should we believe the Prime Minister this time?

Stephen Harper Prime Minister

Mr. Speaker, I very clearly said that this party's preference is to see a reformed and elected Senate, but the Senate must change; if the Senate cannot be elected, then it should be abolished. Those are the choices. The New Democratic Party has made its choice.

It cannot reject the idea of having an election and then ask that senators be elected. That is a contradiction.

Jack Layton Toronto—Danforth, ON

Mr. Speaker, it looks as though the only way that we are going to get Michael Fortier to face the voters is to abolish the Senate.

Let me quote the Prime Minister once again when he said, “An appointed Senate is a relic of the 19th century.”

Many provincial leaders in this country support the abolition of the Senate. So, let me ask the Prime Minister seriously, is he willing to open up a dialogue with provincial leaders regarding the steps that would need to be taken to abolish the Senate? If it is broken, let us abolish it now.

Stephen Harper Prime Minister

Mr. Speaker, as I just said, this party's preference has always been to see a reformed and elected Senate, but if the Senate cannot be reformed, the only other alternative would be to abolish it. I think we recognize that.

Once again the leader of the New Democratic Party is in a bit of a contradiction. He cannot blame the Senate for having unelected senators when he himself refuses to pass legislation to allow senators to be elected.

Marlene Jennings Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC

Mr. Speaker, Elections Canada investigated this $1.2 million Conservative Party laundering scam.

There is no evidence these expenses were incurred by their candidates. Some of their candidates said they did not even know about them. Others said they were pressured to contribute to the national advertising.

Elections Canada says that the Conservative Party used local campaigns to hide the fact that they spent more than they were allowed to and then they had the gall to claim bogus rebates.

When will the government admit that it knowingly broke the law?

Peter Van Loan Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform

Mr. Speaker, all of the suggestions of the hon. member are in fact incorrect. The reality is that all of our activities are lawful. We follow the law very carefully and we will continue to do that in the future.

Marlene Jennings Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC

Mr. Speaker, that is not the opinion of Elections Canada.

The Prime Minister has to explain himself. Ann O'Grady, the official agent of the Conservative Party, knew that. His campaign manager, Tom Flanagan, knew that. He even wrote about it in his book.

These people get their mandate from the Prime Minister. He is the one who tells them what to do. Why did the Prime Minister tell them to violate the election financing legislation?

Peter Van Loan Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has made some very serious accusations of illegal activity by particular individuals. I have not heard her make those accusations outside the House. I would invite her to do so and bear the consequences of doing so.

Dominic LeBlanc Beauséjour, NB

Mr. Speaker, even Conservative candidates feel the need to admit that they cheated during the last election.

Gary Caldwell, the candidate for Compton—Stanstead admitted, and I quote, “It was not a legitimate expense in our riding”.

Jean Landry, the candidate for Richmond—Arthabaska, said that a Conservative organizer, and I quote, “did not stop bugging him about it. He said he had to take it and that was that.”

Why does the Prime Minister not come forward, as his candidates have done? Why is he hiding the truth?

Peter Van Loan Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform

Mr. Speaker, there is absolutely nothing hidden. All of our activities are legal. All of them follow the letter of the law and all of them are similar to the practices of other parties.

Dominic LeBlanc Beauséjour, NB

Mr. Speaker, let us be very clear. Gary Caldwell, who was the Conservative candidate in Compton—Stanstead, said that this “was not a legitimate expense in our riding”. Jean Landry, another Conservative candidate said that a party organizer, and I quote, “did not stop harassing me with that. He said we had to do it, that it was obligatory”.

Who is telling the truth, the Prime Minister or his candidates?

Peter Van Loan Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform

Mr. Speaker, I heard the hon. member the first time. I do not think he heard me the 12th time.

All of our activities were legal. They followed the letter of the law and were similar to the practices of other parties.