House of Commons Hansard #157 of the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was plan.

Topics

Opposition Motion--The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

May 18th, 2007 / 10:05 a.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

moved:

That, in the opinion of the House, given the desire of Canadians that this Parliament meaningfully address concerns about air quality and climate change, the government should call Bill C-30, Canada's Clean Air and Climate Change Act, for debate and decision at Report stage and Second reading as soon as possible.

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Victoria this morning on this most important and imperative debate.

We have seen much chicanery and seen the government playing with time. As we know, the government has chosen to reduce the hours of debate on this important topic from eight hours, which has been the tradition through most of Parliament's history, to two hours. This is a choice the government has made for--

Opposition Motion--The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:05 a.m.

Yvon Godin

It's in the guide. They have a guide to do that.

Opposition Motion--The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:05 a.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

I think it might actually be in the guide, Mr. Speaker. There apparently is a 200-page guide available to the Conservatives. It may be 500 pages according to the parliamentary secretary.

While there might be some fun to be had with this, this is also a serious issue. This describes a government unwilling to face the key issues of the day, the issues that Canadians are calling on us to address with most haste.

There has been a general agreement that there must be a calling for a state of the nation for Canadians when we realize what is happening to our planet, what is happening as a result of our actions on climate change.

Due to the Liberal's failure and the current government's continued denial, delay and inaction, Canada finds itself at least 35% above our international obligations under Kyoto. Government officials, the minister himself, and others have admitted to the fact that we will not meet our obligations by 2008 or 2012, but perhaps we will meet them by the year 2025.

It is incredible to me and to other Canadians, when we look at our international competitors in the European Union, Japan, Australia, and the United States, that we find Canada performing worse than all of them. Canada has given itself a record to the world saying that we will not abide by our signature on an international agreement, and we will not play a full role. We are telling the world that we will not pull our weight or contribute our fair share to battling what has truly become an international problem.

We received one important piece of testimony from witnesses when we were debating the clean air act. They asked us to consider the Kyoto framework and the protocol as an economic pact rather than simply an environmental one. This is an important designation for all members to realize here today.

The government has been asked to assess the threat of climate change to our economy and to the health of Canadians, and yet there has not been a single study performed by the Conservative government, or previous ones, to understand the impacts and the threats to our country with an increase in greenhouse gases in our atmosphere. There has not been a simple understanding of what that impact will be like on all of our communities.

As we have watched the pine beetle devastation roll through our communities in British Columbia, devastating community after community by attacking the forests, a source of livelihood, we realized once and for all that the affects are real, that we must do something about it, and the time for inaction has long since past. The forestry councils of British Columbia have directly related this to the impact of climate change.

I would contend that every generation is met with a great challenge, whether it is seeking rights for all individuals, whether it is the emancipation of slavery, or whether it is fighting great despots in foreign lands. Every generation is judged by future generations as to the quality of handling that challenge. How did we respond to that challenge? How did our forebearers respond to the challenges of their day?

Every Remembrance Day we stand with pride and recognize the service of our veterans. We recognize that when that generation was met with a challenge, they faced that challenge. We look to previous generations and wonder how they responded to the challenge of finding the right spot for first nation women and minority groups.

Our generation's challenge is finding a way to conduct ourselves, conduct our economy, to live our lives in such a way that we do not do harm to ourselves or to our planet. I would contend that by the actions of the previous government and by the continued delay and denial of the Conservative government, future generations will hold us to account.

Future generations will decide when they look upon our record that it was simply for another CEO's bonus cheque in a Calgary office tower that we were unwilling to take the appropriate actions, that we were unwilling as a generation to move in the direction that was most needed and most called for by our children and their children.

Clearly, this issue of the environment and climate change must not be all that important to the Liberal Party as members can attest by their overwhelming attendance here this morning. It is an important issue for the New Democrats. For New Democrats this issue for our leader from Toronto—Danforth has been front and centre year in and year out, as we have seen governments bend to the will of inside corporate lobbyists rather than to the interests and needs of Canadians every day.

When the government first brought Bill C-30 forward, the clean air and climate change bill, and it was simply called the clean air bill in those days, that was one change we had to make quite quickly, it was dead on arrival. I remember standing in the foyer with all the media and the then environment minister who has since been replaced to much fanfare and much expectation that this bill would be the solution. This would be the silver bullet and finally some action.

As I flipped through the bill, as did other Canadians, we found that there was no serious action on climate change until the year 2040, as if we somehow had the luxury of time, the luxury to delay even further into the future.

The bill was dead on arrival. It met with no support from any other party in the House. There was no consultation with any other party in the House and there was not a single environmental group or a group of interest in the country who supported it in its measures.

I can also recall the day when the member for Toronto—Danforth, the leader of the New Democrats, stood in his place in the House of Commons and asked the Prime Minister to move the bill to a special committee. I recall the Conservatives guffawing and slamming their desks and laughing and calling out names of derision.

The Prime Minister stood in his place and said, “All right. Let's let a minority Parliament do its work. Let's let a process happen whereby each party will contribute their best ideas”. It was suggested that we bring forward the best witnesses we can from across the country and that no single party would win, but the best ideas would be allowed to win. Here was a novel concept for Canadians watching politicians, one of the most derided forms of occupation that could be had in this country, that they would somehow put aside partisan interests for a moment and allow a process to go ahead where every party would be allowed to move amendments, make changes and recommendations. Lo and behold, that is what happened.

Every party in this place made recommendations to the new revised bill. Every party voted for a majority of the sections of this bill. Yet here we find ourselves. All the media and the lobbyists and members of the government said that this could not be done, saying this simply cannot be done. But we got it done. We were able to find a place of consensus where everyone got something and everyone gave up something.

It is an old adage in negotiations that a good agreement is one where everyone gives something up. That is exactly what happened when we rewrote this bill and then renamed it.

The minority government's response to this has been to simply pretend it never happened, as if Canadians did not witness this experience, as if people are uninterested in the issues that we brought forward and that all the time and money that Parliament spent in good faith rewriting this bill simply did not exist. That is simply not true.

There was all sorts of sabre rattling as we entered into the spring session with the Prime Minister ready to go to the polls and, lo and behold, his numbers slipped in those very same polls and we do not have an election.

The Conservatives scrambled about the place and brought in another green plan. They stepped up to the plate for their second opportunity and it was another dud. Not a single environmental group in the country, not a single group, is interested in this at all.

The results of moving forward and what we were able to accomplish in a new and revised clean air and climate change bill were that national housing standards have an absolute lead and national targets for the first time have been placed into law that the cabinet cannot undo.

There are industrial targets for each sector and allowing those industries to use every tool available, unlike the government's bill which restricted the use of tools available.

Air pollution standards for the first time in this country will have national standards placed in the bill. The bill provides the ability to build the best vehicles in the world, the best cars and trucks for Canadians to drive, with the lowest emissions and the highest quality. This is what Canadians expect from us and this is what we delivered.

The government should bring the bill back to the House for a fair and free democratic vote today.

Opposition Motion--The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

Dick Harris Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Mr. Speaker, the member for Skeena—Bulkley Valley is too kind to me in giving me openings like pine beetles and talking about how we did not listen to the NDP-friendly environmental groups.

Speaking of pine beetles, back in the early 1990s the then NDP provincial government listened to those NDP-friendly environment groups, and now what we do have on our hands? A massive pine beetle infestation, because the environmental groups would not let the government of British Columbia go into the Tweedsmuir park and fix the pine beetle. That is what those environmentalists did.

The former Liberal government sat on its hands for 13 years--

Opposition Motion--The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken

The hon. parliamentary secretary to the government House leader is rising on a point of order.

Opposition Motion--The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK

Mr. Speaker, my point of order seems to be rather moot right now. I had not been advised, due to the absence of members opposite, of whether there was any boycott by the Liberal Party in having no members in the House, but I see that one now has arrived so I will withdraw my point of order.

Opposition Motion--The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

Opposition Motion--The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken

Order. The parliamentary secretary is well aware that referring to the absence of members is out of order. He would not want to do that on a point of order and blunder into all kinds of mistakes.

The hon. member for Cariboo—Prince George has the floor, but we must have a little order so the hon. member for Skeena—Bulkley Valley can hear the question or comment.

Opposition Motion--The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Dick Harris Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Mr. Speaker, while the NDP would want us to continue striking committees and special groups under this bill to study this more, the Conservative government is taking action.

In the next three to five years greenhouse gases will stop increasing. By 2020 they will be down by 150 megatonnes. The Liberals did nothing to fight air pollution and the NDP wants to continue with more studies.

This new Conservative government is doing something for the first time ever about greenhouse gases, air pollution, water pollution and contaminated ground and soil. Under our environment minister, this Conservative government is doing something for the first time in 13 years.

Those NDP members stood and watched the Liberal government do nothing for 13 years and now suddenly they think are going to save the world. I do not think so. We are doing something. This Conservative government is fixing the environment and we should be proud of what our environment minister has done.

Opposition Motion--The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Speaker, where to begin? First, in terms of greenhouse gas emissions, unfortunately there was a contribution made to our national average right there and it was unhelpful of the member from Prince George. This grassy knoll theory that the environmentalists are somehow to blame for Canada's poor record on the environment is fascinating. What a strange confabulation.

When the B.C. First Nations Forestry Council comes to Ottawa, perhaps the member from Prince George should attend the meetings and find out that it is the forestry council that makes a direct link between climate change and the pine beetle devastation going on in our province right now. He should pay attention to the foresters and leave his grassy knoll theories for another day.

In terms of action, what studies? Perhaps he should read the resolution for today. The NDP is calling on the government to act on the bill that we created together in Parliament. It is a minority Parliament, I will remind the government, which means that a 200 page manifesto on how to disrupt committees is unhelpful.

What is helpful is to actually listen to the work of the committees whose members work together to solve an issue that does not have a right and a left, but that does have a right and a wrong, and the government is wrong on this issue.

Opposition Motion--The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Dick Harris Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Mr. Speaker, I can agree with the member for Skeena—Bulkley Valley on one thing, which is of course that climate change has been contributing to the pine beetles. There is no doubt about it.

However, back in the early 1990s when the provincial NDP government had a chance to go in and stop what was then a small infestation in the Tweedsmuir park, their environmentalist friends told the government it could not or it would lose their support. That is the legacy the NDP has to live with when it comes to pine beetles in the province.

Opposition Motion--The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Speaker, the continuation of these theories is incredible. Despite what the First Nations Forestry Council in British Columbia is saying, despite what the environmental groups are saying, and despite what the scientists within the department of the government are saying, somehow the theory is that the pine beetle devastation is due to a handful of environmentalists in British Columbia.

That is what is happening. Those members are not realizing the truth of the matter, which is that we must fundamentally change course in this country. We must alter the economic reality for this country and start to build the type of green economy that Canadians have been asking for.

Bill C-30 would allow us to do that. Why the government refuses to listen to the will of Parliament, just like the Prime Minister used to call for when he was in opposition, is beyond me and beyond Canadians, but the Prime Minister will feel the retribution when it comes.

Opposition Motion--The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:20 a.m.

NDP

Denise Savoie NDP Victoria, BC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise and speak about this bill, which was drafted by a committee with representation from all the opposition parties as well as the governing party. This committee was inspired by the NDP.

This bill, which the committee renamed Canada's Clean Air and Climate Change Act, offers an environmental plan that is far superior to what the Conservatives are proposing. They would have us believe that their targets will mean tough control over greenhouse gas emissions. The reality is different. The reality is that with intensity-based targets, greenhouse gas emissions will increase. That is why the committee took the Conservatives' shoddy bill and amended it to give Canadians a really effective plan. That is what Canadians want.

I condemn the government for not having the courage to introduce its own plan in the House for a debate and a vote. That is why the NDP is introducing Bill C-30 today.

To shut down this debate through procedural trickery, to bring it down from eight hours to two, is all about stifling the good ideas and progress made in Bill C-30 on an issue that Canadians are progressively increasingly concerned about. Canadians are angry about the inaction of their governments over the past decade.

For a government that purports to want to bring democracy to other countries, this action is profoundly undemocratic and disrespectful to the majority of Canadians who want real action on climate change. There is no issue about which I have received more mail from my constituents in Victoria.

This is a government that is increasingly and dangerously unwilling to accept the majority will of Parliament and of Canadians. We have seen this on committees throughout the last week.

Instead, the Conservatives jet-set around the country to introduce one idea per town, small half measures that fall far short of what is needed, without a real plan to reduce greenhouse gases.

One would think some of the best scientific minds on this planet would have been able to shed light in the Conservative mind--

Opposition Motion--The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:20 a.m.

An hon. member

A dark place.

Opposition Motion--The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:20 a.m.

NDP

Denise Savoie NDP Victoria, BC

Yes, a dark place.

One would think some of the best scientific minds on this planet would have been able to shed light in the Conservative mind about the most urgent issue our generation faces. One would think the Conservatives would understand the threat to our children and the urgency to act.

Yet the Conservatives and their friends in the oil patch dismiss the impact of our actions in Canada. They say that our emissions represent only 2% of global greenhouse gas emissions, but they fail to understand that we are 0.5% of the world's population.

In other words, we are a dirty bunch, spewing out four times more emissions than our share. This is not the “punching above our weight on the international scene” that most Canadians have in mind.

We are told that this is the case because of our economy, so we get rich at the expense of the environment and at the expense of the rest of the people who inhabit it. This is certainly not the role that Canadians want to play in the world. It is a disgrace.

Bill C-30 offers a real possibility for a shift in direction. We are the only western country whose emissions are still rising, and the Conservative plan does not change that until 2020.

The Conservatives have us stuck on an escalator going ever upward. We are the only western developed country whose emissions are still rising and we are looking over at everyone else who is on the escalator going down.

The environment minister has said that he understands the urgency of the situation, yet given the lack of urgency of his actions and his plan, it is clear that he does not understand. He runs around claiming that the economic sky will fall if we aggressively tackle climate change.

However, a couple of days ago, a Canadian financial leader speaking at the Rideau Club said the following about those countries and those businesses who are too slow to join the green economy. He said that “the last into this will pay through the nose”. His company, VanCity Savings, is in the process of becoming carbon neutral by 2010. What that means is the act of doing business in a way that does not contribute to global warming.

One would expect that the Conservatives, who make themselves the apostles of productivity, would understand that those who transition early to a green economy will benefit. Yet with their ludicrous, discredited, intensity based targets, they remain firmly anchored in an old way of thinking and in an old economy that separates us from the possibility of real solutions.

There are real solutions. Other countries are putting them forward. We are being left in the dust.

Our excellent NDP energy critic, the member for Western Arctic, said that “any credible plan needs to be accompanied by real investment in renewable, sustainable, and green energy”. He continued, saying, “We must develop a national energy strategy which invests in renewable energy, supports conservation and creates an east-west energy grid so Canadians can share clean energy with each other”.

That is the kind of thinking that will allow us to change paradigm. What we need is a vision for what a green economy will look like and the determination to be the first ones to get there, which is precisely what the Conservative minority lacks.

If there were genuine political will to get something done beyond the mere appearance of action, the crucial first step would be to set the necessary political signals and framework conditions to achieve a more climate friendly development in the time to come. However, that does not mean making the tar sands slightly less dirty per barrel. It means a full shift in the way we produce energy. It means making stable, long term investments in conservation and development of renewable energy sources, instead of the spontaneous flash-in-the-pan window dressing projects that were given by the Conservatives, and the Liberals before them. It requires making a transition to triple bottom line decision making where social, economic and environmental objectives are given equal weight and all decisions must meet these objectives on each front. It does not mean doing a little bit of this and a little bit of that.

This is the principle that Norway has adopted. Norway produces only 0.2% of the world's emissions, but the country's leaders understood that it was part of the global family and needed to do its part.

The five countries that produce the most emissions account for half the world's emissions. However, as the Norwegian commission on low emissions has stated, if all the countries with relatively low emission levels rely on the major producers to reduce their emissions, we will never control climate change.

We can also follow Germany's example. Years ago, German political leaders seized the opportunity to build a strong, green, sustainable economy. They had a vision of the future that is being realized today.

Opposition Motion--The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. Parliament is not allowed to sit if there is no member of the official opposition in the House. Is that not the case?

Opposition Motion--The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken

The hon. minister knows very well that is not the case. It does not matter who is in the House as long there are 20 members here. The Chair has no views on this. The hon. member knows that it is also improper to refer to the absence of members in the House. I have just chastized the parliamentary secretary to the government House leader for doing the same thing, so I know he will want to set an example and refrain from such activity.

The hon. member for Victoria has the floor.

Opposition Motion--The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:25 a.m.

NDP

Denise Savoie NDP Victoria, BC

Mr. Speaker, I wish the Minister of the Environment, instead of being disruptive, would focus on environmental solutions.

But that would be asking too much.

I was saying that German political leaders took the opportunity to build a green, lasting and strong economy. That is what Canada is not doing and should be doing. For example, Germany has become the world leader in wind energy and it plans to gradually eliminate all of its nuclear energy by 2020. Canada is going in the opposite direction.

In closing, it is not just countries, but also Canadian and U.S. companies that are calling on the government to take action in order not to miss out on this opportunity to be competitive.

For example, the CEO of the Atlanta based carpet manufacturer Interface Incorporated, Ray Anderson, has adopted incorporating energy efficiency as a fundamental tenet of business and that it can mean financial success. This is something the Conservatives do not seem to understand.

I am pleased that the NDP pushed the climate change clean air act back on the floor of the House.

Hon. members spent months developing this bill and it required much negotiation, cooperation and hard work. What we have before us now reflects the best the four parties—

Opposition Motion--The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken

I am sorry to interrupt the hon. member, but her time has run out. We will now move on to questions and comments.

The hon. member for Rivière-des-Mille-Îles.

Opposition Motion--The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:30 a.m.

Bloc

Gilles-A. Perron Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

Mr. Speaker, since every province and every industry emits greenhouse gases at different rates, I would like the hon. member to say a few words on the polluter pays principle.

Opposition Motion--The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:30 a.m.

NDP

Denise Savoie NDP Victoria, BC

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for his question. If the bill is passed that is exactly what it would propose. That is exactly how it would apply. We are currently compensating the big polluters, the major emitters of pollution. For example, the government is proposing exempting the oil sands, which will continue to pollute. On the contrary, Quebec has adopted a green plan and many other provinces want to move forward. The NDP strongly supports this.

Opposition Motion--The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:30 a.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Mr. Speaker, many of us were very heartened by many of the remarks the member made and the tone of optimism in her voice that we as a minority Parliament may come together and do something meaningful in the context of the environment and climate change. I thank her and my colleague from Skeena for both the tone and the content of their speeches.

As a member from the province of Manitoba, I would like to focus on one thing she mentioned that is of critical import to us, and that is the idea that we must get busy with an east-west grid so that we in Canada can have our own Canadian system of sharing green renewable resources. My province of Manitoba and the province of Quebec have surpluses of hydroelectric power which, although not benign, is a heck of a lot better than the coal-fired and diesel-fired generating stations or the tar sands.

Could the member expand on her vision of how an east-west grid may become a reality and may be the most important nation-building exercise that this 39th Parliament constructs, period? I wonder if we could encourage the minister while we are at it.

Opposition Motion--The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:30 a.m.

NDP

Denise Savoie NDP Victoria, BC

Mr. Speaker, it is encouraging that the minister has put his paper down at least for that. I am very pleased to see that.

We should all remember that the railway going across Canada was one of the infrastructures that really brought Canada together.

This is a time when provinces are struggling to address climate change. My province of British Columbia has made it a requirement that any new coal-fired plant must have zero gas emissions. I know Ontario is struggling to meet its own goals in terms of reducing pollution. An east-west grid would allow those kinds of efficiencies between provinces that are not possible at the moment.

Those are the kinds of solutions that we need to implement but the government, after a year and a half in government, has not yet taken or made any serious moves to implement. This is the basis to developing a national energy strategy. It is the most basic aspect of what would be required to get our country working together, rather than one province against another.

Opposition Motion--The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:35 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I believe that you will find unanimous consent for the following motion:

That, at the conclusion of today's debate on the opposition motion in the name of the member from Skeena—Bulkley Valley, all questions necessary to dispose of this motion be deemed put and a recorded division deemed requested and deferred until Tuesday, May 29, 2007, at 5:30 p.m.

Opposition Motion--The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken

Does the hon. member for Acadie—Bathurst have the unanimous consent of the House to move this motion?