Debates of Dec. 1st, 2010

Mark Holland Ajax—Pickering, ON

Mr. Speaker, I move that the first report of the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security, presented to the House on Wednesday, April 14, 2010, be concurred in.

It is an honour for me to move this motion and to have it seconded by the member for Malpeque, and I will be splitting my time with the member for Malpeque on this issue.

If we look at the content of the motion that is before the House, it asks something that is pretty simple. It asks that before we close down the prison farm program, a farm program that has provided invaluable effort to rehabilitate inmates over the last hundred years, the government should provide some modicum of evidence that the program was not working.

In committee it was fairly startling to learn that the Correctional Service of Canada is keeping no statistics when it comes to the effective rehabilitation of inmates who complete programs. It also keeps no statistics on whether those individuals were able to get jobs when they were released. Further, it keeps no statistics even on the costing of the program. The Conservatives refused throughout the debate in committee to provide what exactly was the cost of the prison farm program and how much money we would specifically save.

This motion asks that, before the government moves forward, in each of those areas they demonstrate that the program was not effective. Here is the reason. As I and our critic for agriculture had the opportunity to travel the country, we came to see really the most effective program that we have in corrections at helping inmates rehabilitate.

At the end of their sentence, just before they are released, inmates are given the opportunity to work in the prison farm program. It is a program that lets them work with animals and develop empathy. It lets them build the compassion that comes from working with another living thing. As we have seen in research from other jurisdictions, this type of work is now on the leading edge of making sure that when inmates are released they do not reoffend. At the bottom line, is that not what public safety really is all about, making sure that crimes do not happen either in the first place, or in this case, when somebody is being released from prison, that it does not happen again?

I had the opportunity to meet with the men who went through the prison farm program, to look into their eyes and see the difference it made in their lives, how transformational it was. I heard from a gentleman who was in a terrible situation. No one can excuse his crime, but it was not an easy situation. He was 19 years old. He had a step-parent who was abusing his mother, and through a confrontation when alcohol was involved, there was manslaughter. He took the life of the person who was abusing his mother, a crime he deeply regrets, but a situation that was deeply regrettable.

He talked about how the prison farm program changed him as a person, made him stronger, not just how it built empathy but the process of voluntarily, and understand that this program is voluntary, getting up at five in the morning and going to a farm and putting in 10 hours of work. They get to know the dignity of a job well done and understand the structure of work. For individuals who never really had that structure in their life before, it becomes transformative. In so many different ways, this individual was able to articulate how it made a difference in his life.

Then I talked to correctional officials, people who have been working in the prison farms in many cases for longer than 30 years. They told us there is no more effective program in corrections than the prison farm program. In every instance where I talked to a correctional official, they said when it came to the prison farm program there was not a single incident of violent recidivism. It is absolutely stunning that the government would axe a program that is that effective.

Its rationale ostensibly was twofold; one was the cost. Let us look at the cost.

The government is embarking on chasing after California, spending tens of billions of dollars on megaprisons, locking people up for longer and longer following a Republican model that leads to less safe communities and turns prisons into crime factories. It turns them into crime factories specifically because people go in for crimes, and instead of getting better, they face reduced or cut back programs. Conservatives are willing to spend billions of dollars on all these new prisons, but when it comes to a program that is effective and is proven to work, a model internationally, they do not have the dollars. How much are we talking about? The government tells us it is $4 million, but it will not give us a breakdown of that $4 million.

The Conservatives tell us no one is being laid off as a result of these closures. They tell us that they are now going to have to go to market to buy the milk and eggs that the program now provides for Ontario, Quebec and the Maritimes. Yet, they say that somehow there is a mysterious $4 million to save, on which they cannot give us any information.

Even if it does save $4 million, that represents two fake lakes. That is barely more than a second of G8 and G20 spending in a weekend. It is a pittance compared to how the government blows money.

The second rationale, aside from cost, is that agriculture is a dead industry, if members can believe it. Conservative ministers have stood up and said that agriculture is a dead-end, that people do not need to learn those skills as there is no future in it. I think a lot of Canadians would find that offensive. It also misses a fundamental point.

I have visited most penitentiaries in this country. For example, I have visited a literacy program in a penitentiary. I talked with those going through the program. We do not expect most inmates to become writers, but we do understand that the basic skills of literacy are an essential component to getting a job and having a future. Similarly, I have visited prison programs where inmates sew pockets onto materials to be used by our soldiers, or sweep floors. I do not ask how many will get a job sewing pockets on garments. I do not ask how many will get a job sweeping floors. Instead, I ask about the base skills they are getting. For those inmates who have not had the opportunity to find the structure of work and the pride that comes from putting in a full day's work, this type of experience is one that makes a huge difference.

I cannot help but reflect upon something the member for Malpeque once said to me. He visited a prison farm and there was a cow that had foot rot. In normal circumstances the cow would have been put down. He reflected upon the fact that it was the inmates who asked that the animal not be killed and that it be protected. They had become so close to that animal and had built so much empathy through that process that they had rallied around the animal. They wanted to nurse it back to health and take care of it.

I cannot help but think that if somebody is about to be released from prison, that would be the kind of person we would want the person to be when he or she walks out those doors. Let us remember that more than 90% of those who go to prison come back out. Shutting down programs like this is a travesty.

This is just a continuation of other things the government is doing.

Take a look at the fact that the crime prevention budget has been cut by more than 70%. Groups such as the boys and girls clubs and churches have been providing services to youth trying to get them to turn away from a dark path and not commit those crimes in the first place and not wind up in prison. The Conservatives have slashed money to those programs.

Similarly, the victims of crime initiative has had a 42% slash of its budget. This is a program that helps break cycles of violence and victimization. Often the people who commit crimes themselves have been victimized in their lives. By cutting funding there, the government is refusing to break that cycle of victimization that can so often happen.

The government is slashing from things that stop crime, that keep communities safe, and is dumping more and more money into prisons with fewer and fewer programs.

If that were not enough, the government has now announced it is going to violate international conventions to which Canada is a signatory and proceed with double-bunking. The government says there is nothing wrong with double-bunking, despite the fact that in many provincial facilities double-bunking is not only happening, but it is becoming the norm. In some cases, it is triple-bunking.

I talked to provincial corrections officials in some provinces where they are literally transforming the library into prison space. Prison guards are stepping over inmates at night to count them.

One could say, who cares? “Stack them on top of each other”, the Conservatives would say. “Make the conditions as deplorable as possible”.

The problem is, they get out. People will come out of that system that is broken, that has no focus on rehabilitation, that stacks inmates on top of each other and cuts all of the programs, or never invested in them in the first place, that cuts prevention programs and programs that help victims. And what type of people do the Conservatives think will walk out that door?

When I was in St. John's, Newfoundland, I went to Her Majesty's penitentiary and took a look at the deplorable conditions that so many people with serious mental illness are also facing. This point is just further illustrated.

We dealt with this in the public safety committee. The government sees no problem with solitary confinement. Inmates who are suffering from mental health illnesses are put into isolation where their condition degenerates and they get much worse. Our prisons are not hospitals so they are kept there. The disturbing thing again is that they are just released on to the streets. Because they are mentally ill and their condition has become even worse, and because the government puts no money into proper facilities to help deal with those mental illnesses, we end up having high rates of recidivism.

Where is all this leading? It is not as if this is all just conjecture on my part or the part of just about every expert in the country. The reality is this has been tried before, this cancelling of effective programs, building of mega-prisons, double-bunking, stuffing people in with each other. It was tried in places like California and other states in the United States. The result there was that it sucked like a vacuum money out of health care and education. It sucked money away from infrastructure and for helping those who were in need. What it left was a recidivism rate in California of over 70%.

We need programs like the prison farm program. We have to take action.

Wayne Easter Malpeque, PE

Madam Speaker, it was a pleasure for me and my colleague to tour quite a number of prison farms in the Kingston, Ontario area, New Brunswick, Manitoba and other areas.

I wonder if he could elaborate on the dairy herd at the penitentiary farm in Kingston. What was enlightening was the pride the inmates took in looking after the dairy herd and in providing milk and other food products to other institutions in Ontario and Quebec.

My colleague met with the mayor and town council in Kingston. He also met with people who are part of the group, Save the Prison Farms. I wonder if he could expand a bit more on what it means for the community to support the continuation of prison farms.

Mark Holland Ajax—Pickering, ON

Madam Speaker, I will start with where the member finished, and that is with the Save the Prison Farms coalition. This is a grassroots group that started in Kingston but spread across the country. This group is largely responsible for people knowing what prison farms are and the difference they can make in people's lives. We owe this group a tremendous debt for standing up against the actions of the government. Many members are correctional employees who risked their jobs to stand up for what they believe in. They were willing to put their livelihood on the line because they believed what the government was doing was fundamentally wrong.

We had the chance to meet with the mayor and council in Kingston who talked about how important this program is. We also had an opportunity to speak at rallies in Kingston and just north of Winnipeg, where literally hundreds of people rallied behind this program because they know how well it works. They have seen first-hand the effect that it has on inmates.

The member is absolutely right to point out the pride that was taken in that dairy herd. Imagine these inmates, many of whom have never had a pet in their life, are now talking about this dairy herd, which is one of the best and most productive in the province. They were proud to take us around and show us the milk production and the poultry operations. We could not help but see that these people get it. They understand what this program means.

The member for Beauséjour was with us when we were in New Brunswick. We were able to see that pride. We had an opportunity to talk to people in the construction industry and elsewhere who wanted to hire these people because they did good work and had an excellent work ethic after having gone through the program.

Jim Maloway Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Madam Speaker, I thank the member for moving the motion.

I, too, had the privilege of visiting Rockwood prison farm back in the spring. In my opinion, that was a very successful program. In fact, the authorities were on the verge of closing it down and selling the herds and land. The member is absolutely 100% correct that this is a wrong-headed move on the part of the government.

How does he propose to turn back the clock on this? Once the land and the herds have been sold, how do we resurrect the program?

Mark Holland Ajax—Pickering, ON

Madam Speaker, when the Liberal Party of Canada gets to the other side of this House, when we come into power, we will restore the prison farm program. We will undo the damage that was done here.

I say to those people who are disgusted with what the government has done on the prison farm program, who have gathered across the country, who have fought so hard and who are so disappointed that their voices were not heard, they have been heard. We will have a vote in this place. We will send a message to the Conservative Party that its actions are unacceptable and that the prison farm program, a program that works and is effective, is coming back.

Wayne Easter Malpeque, PE

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to speak in this concurrence debate. I want to expand on some of the comments made by colleague from Ajax—Pickering.

A lot has been learned since the government first decided, against all facts and common sense, to close prison farms. Its agenda is to go the American way and emphasize punishment over rehabilitation. Punishment is an American system that has proven to be one of the worst in actually fighting crime and rehabilitating people.

Let me ask a question. If members were to walk the streets in many of the big cities in the United States or in many of the big cities in Canada, where would they feel safer? I think they would feel safer walking the streets in a Canadian city.

However, when we look at Canada and the United States, in terms of their incarceration rates, the United States incarcerates about six times per capita as many people as Canada does. The United Sates incarcerates them and has a system that is based on punishment. It has a system of private jails. It has a system of super prisons. However, it is a system that is recognized around the world as one that is not working in terms of preventing crime over the long term, because it does not emphasize the rehabilitation of people.

The government likes these short bills talking about fighting crime. However, what it avoids at all costs, at all times, is facts that would back up its arguments. In fact one of the reasons it has closed down the mandatory census is that it really does not want to have to deal with the substantive facts. The government wants to believe what it wants to believe and does not like arguments based on facts going against it.

However, where the borrow-and-spend government sitting across the way is going with regard to the prison system in this country is that it is looking at spending another $9 billion or $10 billion on building more super jails. One of the biggest failures in getting there is closing the prison farms. The excuses the government has used, in terms of closing the prison farms, are really unbelievable.

When the announcement was made to close the prison farms, the former minister of public safety told the public safety committee that, in the view of the government, the funds directed toward the prison farm program could be better used if the resources were “redirected to programs where people could actually gain employable skills, as virtually nobody who went through those prison farms ended up with employable skills...”.

There are several problems with the point that the former minister of public safety made.

There is a great need in the farm community itself for those employable skills learned on the farm. There is a huge shortage of labour in much of the farm community, and we have to bring in people from other countries with those skills to work on those farms. It was a miserable statement to make against people who worked on farms, as if their skills were not of value.

The fact of the matter is that working on prison farms is not just about getting a job on a farm, as Conservative members at the public safety committee tried to make it out to be by asking the Correctional Service Canada people how many people got a job on a farm. They did not dare ask how many people got jobs. That is what working on these prison farms is all about. It is about learning life skills. It is all about rehabilitation. It is working with others. That is what it is all about.

In terms of rehabilitation, and my colleague mentioned it earlier, there is just nothing like working with livestock to give one a better sense of life.

I recall at the prison farm in Kingston I ran into an old gentleman who was in prison for life for some very serious crimes. When I talked to him, he told me he had been in trouble all his life, both inside and outside the institutions, and that he had revolted all his life, even inside the institutions, until he came to this farm. He put his hand on a cow and he said that these animals made him recognize what life is all about. He was rehabilitated as an individual. He said himself that he actually became a human being because he was working with livestock. He understood and loved those animals.

My colleague mentioned earlier how they cared so much about an animal with foot rot that really, from my perspective as a farmer, should have been put down. But they cared and they wanted to bring that animal back to life. They wanted to give her life again, where she could walk and be productive again. When I went back to that prison farm eight months later, that cow had healed. That is rehabilitation and working with animals, and I make those points to point out how important working with livestock and working on prison farms really is for the rehabilitation of individuals.

I want to come back to the facility itself. A case study of the Frontenac facility indicates that the program has been successful. The program that the government wants to close down was successful, and I have to ask why it wants to close them down. Why does it want to misrepresent the facts relative to these institutions? Why do the Conservatives not want to rehabilitate inmates so that they can get on to producing in the economy again in a productive way?

The Frontenac facility has been in operation since 1962 and it operates on 455 hectares of class two farmland. The facility houses 130 cattle and produces 4,000 litres of milk per day, which places this facility within the top 20% in terms of productivity in the province of Ontario.

In 2005, this prison farm operation won Frontenac County's most improved dairy herd award, and when we walk in the facility we see the breeding, the genetics that are in that herd. That herd has been around since the turn of the last century. There are genetics in that herd that just cannot be replaced by going out and buying another herd. The facility supplies milk and eggs to Corrections Canada institutions in Ontario and Quebec.

The training program provides, through the prison farm, as follows. Inmates receive training on heavy equipment maintenance related to farm machinery. Inmates receive training on operating tractors, loaders, corn planters, harvesters, ploughs and spreaders. Inmates working in dairy operations can receive third-party certification for learning to operate and maintain the industrial pouch filler. They learn welding skills in the repair of farm equipment. They learn how to operate a variety of hand and power tools. They learn about environmental stewardship, which includes nutrient management and composting. They are trained in crop management and how to maximize yield and feed values. They receive training on feed management as it relates to milk and egg production. They learn how to grade eggs to meet industry standards. They learn how to operate a major poultry operation. They learn about animal care and welfare, including proper management and breeding techniques.

They learn a lot in these institutions, including management skills for the herd, administrative capacities in running computers and clerical skills. All those are important and, with the loss, with the closing down of the prison farm system, the ability to learn those skills in a farm setting where they get rehabilitation as well is lost because of this ridiculous decision by the Government of Canada. It is a decision not based on facts but based on an attitude toward people who have gone to prison, yes, to pay a price for a crime. However, the prison farm system actually rehabilitates them in a way that makes them better persons in society when they get out. That is what we need. The government should be ashamed.

Joe Comartin Windsor—Tecumseh, ON

Madam Speaker, the then minister of public safety and national security was quoted, at the time when the announcement was made of the closings, that none of the prisoners ever worked in farming and, for that reason alone, the prisons were useless. He did not seem to understand, and this is what I want my friend to comment on. He had no appreciation whatsoever of the rehabilitative aspect of working in that setting and all of the other talents.

I know my friend just ran out of time, so I would like him to comment on the lack of understanding, lack of knowledge really, on the part of the minister of the day.

Wayne Easter Malpeque, PE

Madam Speaker, the minister's understanding of the issue relative to rehabilitation when he was the minister in charge of public safety, in charge of the RCMP, in charge of CSIS, in charge of prisons in this country, is almost beyond belief.

The problem though, and the reason the minister does not understand, is that he never walked in the doors of one of those prison farms. We need to walk in the prison farm, go in and see these inmates working with the livestock, whether it is the cattle in a dairy operation, the beef in a beef operation or the poultry. We need to see them working in the machinery shop.

What the minister should have seen is the pride of these inmates when they worked in the dairy operation and provided food for other institutions across the country, but that is one of the failures of the minister and the government. They do not want to know the facts. They will not go and look at the facts, because they want to believe what they want to believe even if it is wrong, and in this case, they are very much wrong.

Scott Simms Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

Madam Speaker, the member brought some great evidence to this House, certainly anecdotal evidence, which we did not get from the other side in any way, shape or form, but I do want to ask him about some of the statistical evidence, if available, that provides credence to the argument that these programs should continue.

Wayne Easter Malpeque, PE

Madam Speaker, one of the difficulties on the statistical side is that the government did not provide us with the documentation we asked for. It claims that the prison farms are losing $4 million. I do not believe that for a minute.

Where is the food for these institutions going to come from in the future? Is it going to be American food? Is it going to come from Chile? Is it going to come from Argentina? It is not necessarily going to be Canadian, under our system, but let me point this out.

The government is adopting the American system, but the United States now is recognizing how valuable prison farms are and it is reinstituting some of them. In California, it is a crop operation.

Here is a headline from the Associated Press: “South Carolina's largest dairy will be at prison”. The article goes on to explain it. It says, “Others take away a work ethic”. In a quote from this, a Mr. Dew says, “They are learning that for everything you do, it takes effort. You get up, you go to work, you do your job and you go home.”

The Americans, which the government likes to follow, it seems, are now recognizing that prison farms are of value, and the government is throwing away an opportunity for feeding our own prison system from within and rehabilitating inmates in a way that they are more productive in society. That is a shame.

The Acting Speaker Denise Savoie

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

The Acting Speaker Denise Savoie

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.