Debates of May 31st, 2010

Christian Paradis Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Mr. Chair, there have been many projects, including three in Alberta. The Quest project, by Shell, received $120 million and the TransAlta Pioneer project received $343 million from the federal government. The third project, Enhance Energy, has received $363 million from the federal government.

The Chair Andrew Scheer

I have to interrupt the minister there. I am just trying to preserve the balance of time.

The hon. member for Skeena—Bulkley Valley.

Nathan Cullen Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Chair, I am looking for those three figures. If at some point in the answers proceeding the officials can give the three figures, we want to know how much money in budget 2009, through the clean energy fund, was allocated toward wind, solar, and CCS. We believe that the approximate number for CCS was somewhere just shy of $1 billion. Is any of the money used for CCS used for what the industry calls enhanced oil recovery?

Christian Paradis Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Mr. Chair, the answer is no. To go back to the question, I could continue to list the projects. I do not wish to needlessly take up my colleague's time. I can obtain the list of all CCS projects awarded to date.

Nathan Cullen Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Chair, very specifically, I want to give the minister the space to have the numbers at hand, but this is a principle of the CCS fund writ large. He does not need specific projects.

Has the use of CCS funding from the federal government gone toward the use of what the industry calls enhanced oil recovery? That is when carbon is sequestered and oil that would not otherwise have been brought to the surface is brought back up in an enhanced way.

That is my question. It is not a particular project question. It's overall. Can the funds be applied for enhanced oil recovery?

Christian Paradis Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Once again, Mr. Chair, I have answered this question and the answer is no. No such projects were awarded for the purpose indicated by my colleague in his question.

Nathan Cullen Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Chair, I am concerned as much by the lack of information as I am by that last answer. I think what we will find is that it is contrary. Industry has come before us at committee and said that they have used CCS funding from the federal government from Canadian taxpayers to augment enhanced oil recovery. That is when they sequester carbon and bring up more oil.

My question was going to be whether the government sees this as a subsidy, but I am not sure that the government knows that it is spending the money. I am not sure which is more concerning.

Does the government have an estimate of the cost per tonne for sequestering greenhouse gases under its current CCS program?

Christian Paradis Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Mr. Chair, the department is currently assessing that. As I said a little earlier in my remarks, we have to look at long term results. This is not a one shot deal. This is not about knowing how much they will make per tonne. We have to look at this from a more general perspective.

The department is now working on finding the best way to do these calculations so that it can be accountable to Canadian taxpayers.

Nathan Cullen Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Chair, I am not necessarily looking for calculations. There are a few principles we have asked about that I am concerned we do not have the answers to.

Oil companies and utilities that testified at committee told us that they will not invest fully in CCS until there is a price on carbon. Does the government have any notion at all what price on carbon would make CCS viable under the current terms?

Christian Paradis Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Mr. Chair, as I said earlier, there have been major investments.

There were three projects for a total of $466 million. Then there were investments in 19 other projects. These investments leveraged a further $3 billion. That is where things stand now.

The industry may have raised specific questions, but I cannot comment on that. I was not at that committee meeting. However, it is clear that $500 million leveraged another $3 billion in investments.

Nathan Cullen Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Chair, the Government of Alberta released its study last year that said that the price of carbon would need to be somewhere in the range of $100 to $250 per tonne to make CCS viable. That is the specific question I asked the minister: Does the government have any study on this?

Turning to the renewable energy portfolio, at what point will the government make a decision to return to investing in wind and solar energy for Canada?

Christian Paradis Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Mr. Chair, with respect to carbon capture and storage, I also explained earlier that there are ongoing discussions as part of the clean energy dialogue with the United States for a North American atlas to figure out where appropriate geological formations are located so we can do this at the lowest possible cost. That is what is going on right now. We are researching the issue.

Furthermore, we announced in the throne speech that we would proceed with a comprehensive review of current programs to ensure targeted strategic investment. We are also operating under certain fiscal constraints. We want to work toward a balanced budget while making strategic investments.

Nathan Cullen Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Chair, in June 2009, the government introduced a black liquor subsidy, to match the United States, to level the playing field. It was the minister's predecessor who announced this.

I want to check whether the minister is aware of the program.

Christian Paradis Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Absolutely, Mr. Chair.

The industry in Canada was very happy to see this program introduced. The pulp and paper green transformation program will now generate more investments. Investments have been announced, and others are under review, but we will move forward.