Brian Masse

[Divorce Act, February 4th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, I was pleased to hear the minister's comments and connections validating the relevancy of child poverty in this issue. It is very important and the minister did a good job of detailing some of the issues and the connections that are happening here.

I would like to ask a question with regard to child poverty. We know that in the year 1989 the House of Commons passed a unanimous resolution to eliminate child poverty by the year 2000. Since then it has gone up 21%. Fortunately we have seen some improvements over the last couple of years, but it is still up 21% since that vote happened in this chamber. That is unacceptable.

What happened during that timeframe when we had billions of dollars of surpluses? We have no affordable housing program and we know from the facts that affordable housing is a key element to ending child poverty. Will the minister agree to support $1 billion per year to create new units as campaign 2000 as many people have advocated in this country to help eliminate child poverty and put action where it really matters?

[Border Security, February 4th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, on November 7, 2002 the Minister of Industry minister responded to my question on the flawed process dealing with the Windsor border saying, “The people of Windsor do not want more process. They want action”. Since that time thousands of people have attended six meetings to object to his committee's proposals and to demand an open and transparent process.

Now cabinet is considering the committee's report despite the public outcry to reject the DRTP and Ambassador Bridge submissions.

Will the minister commit to reject these two proposals and support projects that do not destroy neighbourhoods, and deal with the real issue?

[First Nations Fiscal and Statistical Management Act, January 30th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, I listened with great interest to the hon. member. He had to fill in for his party at the last moment but he has a history with this issue.

One of the important things about any change and working toward independence is the whole issue around financial management and the empowerment which is necessary to provide the means to move the communities in the direction they want to go.

I would like to hear the hon. member's opinion about the government's record with regard to financial management. We have recently seen gun control as an example. What gives the government the confidence to think that it could do a better job of financial management, given the issues like gun control that have happened in these halls?

[Member for Halifax, December 12th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I rise with great pleasure to pay tribute to one of Canada's most committed social activists and one of the House's best parliamentarians, Alexa McDonough who sits for the last day today in the House as leader for the NDP.

Born in Ottawa, Alexa grew up in Nova Scotia and, like so many New Democrats, her activism began early. At the age of 14 she helped initiate, through her church youth group, an outreach and day camp program for children and families of African Canadian families who were struggling with racial barriers and exclusion in her own province of Nova Scotia.

In 1980 Alexa became the first woman elected to lead a major party in a provincial legislature when she became the leader of the Nova Scotia NDP. In 1995 she took over the reins of the federal NDP and triumphantly brought the party back to official party status, electing the NDP's first MPs ever from mainland Nova Scotia and New Brunswick.

She has worn many different hats over the years and she has met all the challenges with grace, fierce determination and unwavering commitment to building a social democracy in Canada.

It has been my pleasure to serve under her leadership. Her support and encouragement since I first decided to run in the byelection earlier this year have been valuable and for that I am deeply grateful.

We would like to recognize and thank her family, David, her sons Justin and Travis and their families, right down to the newest addition to her family, granddaughter Abbie Jean, for sharing her energy and talents with us for all these years.

On behalf of my caucus colleagues and the New Democrats across the country, I would like to thank her for her incredible and tireless efforts as our leader for the past seven years fighting for a better, more democratic and just society that we know Canadians want.

Our thanks to Alexa, we look forward to the inspiration and dedication we know she will bring to the House as the member for Halifax.

[Prebudget Consultations, December 12th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I want to correct the hon. member with regard to the disability tax credit. The motion was to go back to the actual subcommittee recommendations. It was not just about a repeal. It was a specific motion that was not followed by the minister in subsequent discussions, and debate ensued on it in the House. It was not until after continued debate that we were able to get at least some acknowledgement that it was going in the wrong direction.

I can tell the House that there are still many persons in the disabled community who are concerned about this. If we are talking about 1996 and all the programming for a billion dollars, I would suggest that the former finance minister changed the capital gains tax for last year. There was a billion dollars in terms of capital gains difference.

The member can throw out all kinds of numbers and use semantics but we need to go back and stick to the recommendations of the subcommittee.

[Prebudget Consultations, December 12th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre.

This is a very important debate. I had a chance to participate in some of the prebudget hearings in Toronto. Submissions were made by a number of different witnesses. There were discussions among members as well as discussions in general about how to go about financing the nation's business plan in terms of spending and more important, in terms of developing our nation's resources.

It is important to look at the opportunities that the nation has, the resources and income coming in, what will be used and how it will be used and managed. Unfortunately, we have seen recently some terrible situations with regard to the use of tax dollars which have given Canadians a sour taste and which really affect our prebudget considerations and our budget process.

I have been in the House for several months now. I am very disappointed with the lack of accountability of where our tax dollars go. The actions of the government, its different departments and that which drives public policy should be transparent. That is important to note because there have been situations.

For example, over the last 10 years there has been an $80 billion surplus in the employment insurance fund. It might be okay for Arthur Andersen or Enron to be out $80 billion but the government says it is a great thing that it has been off in its financial forecasting. Canadians cannot make educated decisions about where they want their money to go. The government says that it is the government's money and it will put it toward the debt or whatever projects it wants and that should be good enough for Canadians to accept. Well, it is not because employment insurance premiums cannot be used as a slush fund. Canadians need to make educated decisions.

It is also very important to recognize that the government is robbing workers and employers. It becomes particularly problematic when there are some businesses that do not even report their taxes. When there are businesses that do not contribute their fair share, it means the rest of the population is picking up that cost. More important, those businesses in effect are getting a subsidy and honest businesses cannot compete. It is pretty easy to have a competitive advantage when a business is not paying its taxes but its next door neighbour is. It is no wonder that business has lower costs, greater profits, all those things, if it is not contributing to the economic well-being of our country.

A number of different issues were raised regarding the taxation process and the budget, where the money is being spent, and more important, what we can do for Canadians.

One piece of legislation that has caused concern in my riding is with regard to the taxation of U.S. social security benefits. The government has been on the record to study and to get rid of the terrible regressive policy that punishes retirees who have worked hard for their income and have planned for their retirement. The government has usurped their income from them through additional taxes. That shameful practice has to end.

The government could change it through treaty negotiations. It is a simple process. The government has talked about it in the past. The former finance minister has talked about it. Former members of Parliament have talked about it. The government continues to say it is studying it. I do not know how long it needs to study the issue, but it should come up with something.

The treatment of those citizens has been absolutely abominable. They have worked hard for their income and have planned for their retirement. They are not getting the services nor are they living out their retirement as they had planned because the government has moved in with regressive actions.

We heard from many different delegations with regard to specific issues. It is hard to comprehend the logic of some of the members opposite on certain issues. It was good to see the whole House finally agree on the disability tax credit, except for the Minister of Finance, had to leave to be somewhere else. During the debate he was not present and during the vote on the disability tax credit in terms of the NDP's subcommittee amendment addressing that issue, he got up and left. We are talking about $960. The government was moving to cut off the ability for people to use the resources that are necessary for them and to offset some of their increased costs.

It is important to note that Community Living identified persons it supports and what the tax credit means to them and their families. The minister still could not stay to vote and after that, he ignored the vote. I had to continue to press the issue and I am still waiting to see some final results. It is shameful conduct. I hope that other members from all parties who are participating in this debate address that because it is one of the things in the budget.

The government claims it cannot afford to give persons with disabilities a $960 tax credit. That is absolute nonsense and it is unacceptable. The government had $1 billion for gun control and it did not even bring the issue back to the House so members could understand what was happening with regard to the expenditures. At the same time the government hammered down on persons with disabilities and claimed it could not afford to help them. That is unbelievable and shameful and it is wrong.

I would like to note a couple of points with regard to the Auditor General's report. We are talking about having funds to move forward on progressive issues.

We heard about the concern of the universities regarding innovation and research and their ability to work with the government to plan some changes but at the same time the government is not addressing the accessibility of education in our country.

Students are coming out of universities with larger debts. They have a delayed entry into the workforce; they are entering later in their life. They also switch careers more often. All of those things lead to concerns about long term employment stability.

One of the interesting things to note is the millennium scholarship fund. Education costs have skyrocketed by up to 140% in terms of actual tuition. The cost of living has gone up as well. The millennium scholarship fund has $2.5 billion to hand out to students but has given away only $282 million. What is the government waiting for? There are students who need support now. What is the problem? We have paid for it with our tax money. The government created an agenda. What is it waiting for? The government could release those funds to students and be a little more progressive with it thus ensuring that people get the support they need right now.

The Auditor General said that employment insurance premiums are more than double the amount that is needed. If it continues like that, it will not be able to provide the other relief necessary for growth. Taxing people through a regressive tax will not lead to transparency in the budget process. The problem is that people do not understand where their money is going. They do not understand how employment insurance premiums can be used for different things when it should be going to a specific program.

People are asking for transparency. We have heard that transparency is supposed to be coming with the gun control registry. What is transparent about it is that it is basically a sieve for money. It may shuffle right through the whole thing and it is not going to a clear objective.

There are many wonderful opportunities to work on as a country. There are particular assets that can be used to achieve some of our objectives.

The government has introduced an urban task force initiative but it does not have any resources available for it. It has some suggestions and some summaries with regard to municipalities, but it does not have any practical ability to fund them. That has to happen. There cannot be any more reports. There are some reports like the first nations report where they have to go through a reporting process. These reports are not read. This is yet another report. If some resources were put toward it, we could achieve some beneficial objectives for municipalities, urban infrastructure, all of those things.

There is wanton waste which must be stopped and plugged and the money used toward something. With regard to the Canada pension plan, in the last six months there has been a loss of $4 billion, a negative 20.5%. It is interesting to note that John McNaughton, the chief executive officer, said that these wide swings in performance in terms of the stock market are expected to continue. Why not use that money right now? Since the government has lost billions of dollars already, why not use that money for infrastructure in the meantime? The government could get a lower rate of return from municipalities, perhaps 2% or 3%, so some revenue could be guaranteed for the Canada pension plan but at the same time use the difference to build the nation's infrastructure.

Things can be done. We do not have to put it through the process where we lose billions of dollars. How much more do we have to lose before we get it straight? We have some incredible opportunities but the government continues to squander them.

Conservation Ontario has put forth a wonderful program that will cost about $100 million. The program could actually be a great legacy for Ontario but if we continue to waste billions of dollars it makes that $100 million unattainable. This has to change because Canadians want transparency. They do not want games being played with their money.

[Automobile Industry, December 11th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, while the industry minister takes seven months to get around to meeting with the auto sector partnership council for only a second time, 871 GM workers in London are being laid off with the help of a $3.2 billion loan from the government. That is on top of the 2,200 jobs lost at Navistar, in Chatham, which is moving to Mexico.

While he muses about his leadership ambitions we have more than 3,000 new jobs and investment in excess of $1 billion in jeopardy in Windsor because the minister will not come to the table.

When will the minister get it right? We are asking for a Canadian auto strategy, not the Mexican plan his colleague has implemented. When will we have a Canadian auto strategy instead of meeting once every blue moon when the minister's campaign schedule needs a photo op?

[Kyoto Protocol, November 28th, 2002]

Madam Speaker, the first thing I want to touch on is with regard to California. It is important to recognize that it is a significant trading partner. The hon. member is absolutely to correct to note that we will lose those markets.

I know the auto companies that I have been in touch with have been calling for, and the Canadian automotive industry will support them, incentives for the development and commercialization of new technology that allows for the harmonization of our products.

This is also important and perhaps the government will reconsider this. I have asked the Minister of Industry repeatedly why he will not meet with 20 plus urban mayors from the auto sector who have asked the for a meeting with him. This is a launching of an urban strategy, a blueprint. The government says it needs to consult and be more involved with municipalities and the minister refuses.

I hope the minister takes that into consideration and looks at the fact that we have Kyoto as a vehicle with regard to incentives and new technologies. I know the Auto Parts Manufacturers Association supports this as well. Everybody is on board right now but the minister and I cannot make any sense of that.

If one has any sense of leadership in this country, when the workers, the auto dealers, the actual manufacturers, the companies, the Canadian public and the mayors are all on side and everybody is clamouring for this, why would they not meet? I think that is important. If we lose out on markets like California that are increasingly growing, then we will certainly reduce our ability to trade.

With regard to the second question, there have been very credible and positive increases with regard to resource technology. It is coming a little slower than what we would like to see. I would like to point out that the 10% ethanol target, which we are calling for now, could have been reached a long time ago if there had been leadership.

[Kyoto Protocol, November 28th, 2002]

Why not just leave? Are you asking them all to just leave? We know that the Alliance would want all the auto jobs to leave. I suppose that is its position. I do not think that is probably the best one that most Canadians would assume, but it will certainly create economic hardship.

We have a real opportunity here, not only for the area I represent but for all of Canada. It is something important that we need to recognize.

Let us go back once again to municipalities with regard to Kyoto. I think it would be good and proper for the government to invest in and focus on some of the actual buildings, the infrastructure and the green funds that can happen there with regard to improving energy efficiencies and technologies and also using that infrastructure to promote the efficiency that is necessary. That is an already existing infrastucture for us. It is something we can count on. It is something we can use. The government can also learn how to move those types of innovations and, more important, those types of investments, the buildings, back up to provincial and federal levels. So we do have some of these mechanisms and tools if we are to move along with the urban task force, if we actually are going to put some resources into that initiative, and then we will find that there will be some sustainability.

I want to touch briefly on a number of different things. One of the things that has sometimes been forgotten in the debate is our role in the world. When we look at what is happening with regard to different treaties and different types of agreements, we see that on this particular issue Canada has had a record of saying that we will be supporting ratification, that we are going to support it and be there with other nations. What happens now if we backtrack? If we backtrack at this point, we lose further credibility. We have seen issues recently with public comments like “moron” and stuff like that, where we have seen our reputation suffer.

This is an issue on which the Prime Minister has been out there saying that we support ratification. If we go back on that, what will happen? Will the deal fall apart? There is a high potential for that. If the deal falls apart, who is going to take up the initiative with regard to treaties, with regard to moving the world to environmental sustainability? That is a significant problem. It is something we have to wrestle with because the eyes of the world are on Canada on this issue right now. The world is looking to us for leadership. I cannot imagine how we are going to get scientists together again or how we will get the United Nations to move on other things.

Kyoto has been described in many respects as a baby step. It is the first step to working toward sustainability. If we do not have that now, what is going to happen? Will we have other types of treaties in the future? Will people come forth to champion them? I do not think so. If we do not ratify, I think we create some suspicion with regard to our involvement and there is good reason.

The government can do something for itself here to recover some of its record with regard to the environment. We know that since 1993 the government has not had a good record with the environment, which has been a cost to Canadians. It certainly could have been doing a lot more about this up until now, that is clear. We have seen that during debate over the last few days in the House of Commons. We have seen that from Canadians. We have seen that from the fact that we have had increased pollution. It is not just the fact that it is not willing to tackle Kyoto, it is the connection with the environment and the connection with our health, all those things. There are too many vivid examples that lead people to suspicion.

For example, we have asked for changes to the taxation laws. Why is it that right now polluters can actually write off their fines and the taxpayers pay for it? If the government can move so quickly at this time in terms of drawing up a plan in the last few months and putting it together, why can it not move a lot more quickly to change something that is just ethically wrong? I think Canadians would be appalled to know that a company can pollute and claim that fine on its taxes, and Canadians will lose. Not only that, it takes more money to clean up the environment. The government can move more quickly on those types of initiatives.

I can give the example of the Detroit River, where we had an oil spill from the United States. We heard nothing. The oil washed up on our shores. We heard nothing in terms of what is going to happen. There still is a considerable degree of concern that these things can continue to happen and that we do not invest in that.

With regard to the red book in particular, the Liberals promised to reduce carbon dioxide emissions by 20% between 1988 and 2005. The Prime Minister abandoned that goal a long time ago and that is why we are playing catch-up. That is the real problem.

It goes back to my initial comments about a business plan. All of a sudden it is coming forth at the last moment and it is dividing a nation. That is not healthy. While other nations got on with actually signing the protocol, we are one of the last standing. Why do we have to be at the end of this? I do not understand that. I do not know why the Prime Minister did not champion this from the beginning. It does not make any sense.

It is not like the government has a lot to talk about lately with regard to legislation in the House. It has been busy with a lot of other things internally, but it has not been busy with the actual planning and moving things forward. It is something that should have happened a long time ago. We are coming in at the tail end and that is why the world is looking at us with regard to our actual mandate.

It is unfortunate, because provinces have supported this. We are down to Manitoba and Quebec right now with regard to their support, but other provinces have made overtures about Kyoto in the past. Now they are abandoning, questioning and undermining, I would say, the Minister of the Environment in many respects because they have not been consulted for many years and all of a sudden everything is happening at once.

I think this protocol is something that we have to ratify. It is something important for Canadians. It is something that is going to certainly fundamentally change our way of life. I think we have to make sure that the government is going to commit itself. It is going to be interesting. I know that one of the officials of the Minister of Health said that obviously the minister is considering what is in the best interests of Alberta in terms of her position on Kyoto. We do not know how the Minister of Health is going to vote on Kyoto. That is why we have had all this division. We do not know.

Being Minister of Health involves all of Canada. Health is certainly related to the emissions that we are talking about. There is no doubt about it. There is no doubt about the fact that if we eliminate some of these pollutants there are going to be significant improvements in the quality of life for Canadian. We can control some of those emissions. We can control some of those pollutants. I know that in my area, for example, 50% is local and 50% is from the United States.

If we improve and invest in the technology and reduce some of the emissions, maybe we cannot get Michigan to go just yet, but we can control what we have and that is going to lead to improvements for some of the respiratory problems that we have had. We have issues with regard to birth defects as well and issues that deal with learning disabilities. All those different things have affected us because of the pollutants, while we have contributed so much to this country. Windsor and Essex county contribute $26 billion annually to the Canadian economy. That would make us the fifth largest contributor if we were an actual province and we have one of the worst polluted environments. We do not get anything back in the way of support from the government for that.

That is why I talked about the auto issue. It is certainly there in terms of our contribution and work ethic and we will continue to do that if the government believes in us. If it abandons us, like the health minister has, then we are forced into a position and we are divided and that is certainly unhealthy.

The health minister should know that. The health minister should know that she represents all of Canada on this issue, but I guess big oil and big gas have too much influence, because that is what has happened. We have abandoned looking at wind in terms of a real strong national strategy. It is starting to come out a little to the forefront. We could have been on this a long time ago. We have other sustainable energy with regard to hydro as well. We have passed up some incredible opportunities and it is unfortunate.

When the government looks at itself in terms of why Canadians are now divided on Kyoto, I hope it understands and appreciates that it is because of its business plan and its management of it. I hope it has the courage and intestinal fortitude to be able to work with organizations that have come forward, like the Canadian Labour Congress. It has come forward and identified that it is concerned about jobs. Paper workers, steel workers and auto workers are concerned about their jobs, but they understand that there is a larger issue and that they are going to have some of their markets shut out in the future.

They are asking for the government to consult with them and to give them the confidence and the wherewithal to be able to have transition if it is going to happen. I think that takes a lot of courage, because they are putting at risk some of their future security. They are saying they believe that if they do this it is going to improve their lives and their children's and grandchildren's lives. They are saying that they can work toward more sustainability and can prosper better as people in a nation, but they cannot do that if they have a unilateral government that is bent on basically running stuff through at the last moment in terms of implementation plans.

I think we need to ratify. I hope the government has the courage to make sure that its implementation plan is strong, thorough and more consultative than it has been to this moment.

[Kyoto Protocol, November 28th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to speak today in this important Kyoto ratification discussion.

I will make a couple of points in terms of the process to make sure that everybody understands. Right now the federal government could ratify Kyoto. It is a decision of cabinet. The decision of Parliament, the voting and the debate is immaterial in some respects. However, at the same time, I would like to thank the government for at least providing the opportunity to have debate. I think that is important.

I am disappointed, as I think many other Canadians are, that the government has not put a specific time to when it will ratify. That is something of concern. There is still some degree of suspicion that cabinet will do it but we will see what happens over the next few weeks to come.

One of the many reasons that we are supporting Kyoto is not just the fact that we have to change thing in our communities right now but our future and also the way Canada is involved in the world.

We have been very disappointed with the way in which the government has handled this file. It is something it has had over several years, with regard climate change. It is something it had in its red book from 1993 to be addressed, in terms of reductions. That has not happened. It has increased many times over the years. That is why we have almost had to catch up over the last few weeks.

We now have a situation where the Prime Minister is literally scurrying across the country to meet with premiers because he did not do so over the past few years. Something has to come to fruition, so we will see deal cutting and all those things happening at the last minute.

That does not make for good government and it does not make for good policy. It is truly unfortunate. If we look at the opinion polls and listen to what Canadians have been saying over the years, we would know they have been saying that they support Kyoto and the changes that need to happen, and that they are willing to do that. However when the government introduces a plan at the last moment without the proper consultation, it pits people against one another, which is truly unfortunate.

We have a situation here where we can be part of a world strategy and part of an initiative to actually change some of the things that have been causing economic and environmental degradation in terms of our sustainability and it has now become a confrontation that was completely unnecessary and, I think, in many respects, unhealthy for the Canadian public. It has to be recognized because it is about the management practices of the government.

We have seen it as well today with regard to our health care. We finally have the Romanow report. However we have a high degree of uncertainty among Canadians about a very particular issue, which is what we are talking about here, the planning business practices of the government. That has not happened with Kyoto.

With regard to the plan that the government has put forward, we have some concerns about it and it still has a lot of glaring omissions but despite that, we will be supporting the ratification. We hope to participate in a fruitful and, more important, a really thorough and more consultative way with regard to the actual implementation plan itself, making sure it hits the streets and gets out there.

We are concerned about the government's record on a number of different things. First, with regard to its plan, 25% of the emissions have still been left out of the whole reductions. We do not know where that will come from right now. It is no wonder businesses and consumers are a little skeptical. They do not know where those reductions will come from, which causes some of the uncertainty that has led to the fearmongering and to all the different elements, in terms of propagating that everybody will lose their jobs and there will be no new growth. That type of environment allows that to happen.

If we are looking at the actual sectors and initiatives that the government has in its plan, one of them is transportation. We have seen the government just recently fall flat on its face with regard to urban strategies. In an urban blueprint that was released we saw that once again the municipalities were left behind. The government provided no tools and no means of resources to support the Kyoto accord in terms of the actual emissions.

With regard to public transit, we know from documents that it has been behind Kyoto all this time. It actually has been in the forefront on a number of different fuel cell technologies and it did not receive anything from the urban task force. It got rhetoric. This is a problem because once again it goes back to the business plan of the government and the credibility. It creates fears and, more important, it shows that the government cannot handle this responsibility. That is certainly something that is out there for debate.

With regard to the actual transit issue, we know that in the past there have been significant differences with regard to our modes of transportation. I come from a municipality that has a 3% transit use. It is not very high. If we do not eliminate or actually almost mandate use in regard to all the times that we have to use our automobiles, we are going to create more problems. People need to be able to have reasonable choices. For example, supplying a portion of the gasoline tax to municipalities would allow them to create some of the sustainable mechanisms that they need for urban transit. That would be an improvement with regard to emissions and air quality.

We have issues with regard to large emissions producers and Kyoto. We also have opportunities that have come out. One I would like to talk about in particular is with regard to the auto industry. It is something that we are very much concerned about. We are very much concerned about the future of it and the fact that the emissions are so related to the actual amounts of vehicles we have, the types of vehicles we have and also the purchasing choices that Canadians are showing. Certain ministers have shown that they have purchased big, gas-guzzling SUVs. It is something they have bought into as consumers and now they have to look at their own practices and set examples, like the rest of Canadians.

With regard to the auto industry, we have been calling for an auto strategy for many years. It is something that is a real problem. We have watched our auto jobs dissipate and there is a real sense of opportunity with Kyoto and the actual auto sector. In Windsor, Ontario, we know that we have DaimlerChrysler looking at a billion dollar investment for a plant. It will not do it if there is not an auto policy. I know that some people have said it is subsidization, that we are giving incentives, but the reality is that our trade agreement with the United States, which the federal government has bought into, allows the United States, its municipalities, state governments and its federal government, to offer a number of different incentives to get the car manufacturers into their communities.

We either have to address that and be on an equal footing on the part of our trade policy or, alternatively, we at least have to look at being able to compete. If we want to compete with regard to their types of incentives, what better way to do it than Kyoto with regard to some of the emissions? What better way is there when we have them coming to us regarding the CAW, General Motors or Ford? They have all signed on in terms of an auto policy and they are all open to being able to create more sustainable technologies. Specifically, it is unfair what the government sometimes does with this type of strategy. It has asked consumers to change their driving purchases in order to reduce by 25%. It is interfering with the market itself but it is not providing incentives to companies to create the sustainable technologies and advance ourselves.

If we do not deal with this issue, it is not a question about the vehicles that we produce today and right now, it is that other markets are going to dry up on us. We know, for example, that California has standards that will affect our ability to sell vehicles there. Right now, as we speak, there is a court case with regard to legislation in California, but it is going to create the standards and the emissions requirements for vehicles. It is the biggest purchaser of automobiles in North America in terms of its single market.

That is the problem. If we do not look at Kyoto and at creating competitive fields that are going to meet those of the different nations that are moving toward these targeted means of their products and services, we are going see ourselves being frozen out. We are going to be frozen out of future economic development. This is not just about the fact that we can say, okay, there are going to be a lot of jobs lost here right now and there are not going to be any others developing. The fact of the matter is that we are going to be losing the opportunity to trade and compete in the world.

We are going to fall behind in innovation. That is important. We now have the innovation strategy that has been kind of going around the nation, almost like a three ring circus in some respects, because it is not really funded to any really high degree and, once again, it really does not come together with Kyoto or any of the other initiatives. I have had the chance to participate in these exercises and they are nice exercises to some extent, but when we do not actually put in any resources, it does not create the feeling that we want to have happen with business, technology and innovation.

The auto industry has an effect on one in seven jobs in Canada, one in six in Ontario, and one in seven in Canada. Why can the government not recognize that? Why can it not become involved with regard to the auto sector? We know--