Bill C-48 (Historical)

An Act to authorize the Minister of Finance to make certain payments

This enactment authorizes the Minister of Finance to make certain payments out of the annual surplus in excess of $2 billion in respect of the fiscal years 2005-2006 and 2006-2007 for the purposes and in the aggregate amount specified. This enactment also provides that, for its purposes, the Governor in Council may authorize a minister to undertake a specified measure.

Act to authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain Payments

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my constituents have told me not to vote for the NDP budget because they said that the Liberals are corrupt, they are ruining the country's finances, which this bill is proof of, and that in the process they are putting Canada's unity at risk with the damage they have done to the federalist cause in Quebec.

When one looks at the bill, on the face of it, it is $4.6 billion. We hear the Liberals sometimes say that it is only $4.6 billion. That means $205 for every voter. That is the cost of the agreement to buy the support of the leader of the NDP.

However it is only part of the bigger spending spree that we have seen in recent weeks.

Bill C-48, this NDP budget, is part of a larger fiscal framework but it is really a spending and pre-electoral vote buying project by the Liberal government. It has announced $25 billion since April 21.

What does that money mean for each voter? It means that the cost for each voter is $1,114. That is the cost for each vote they are trying to buy with this spending spree. However, guess what? That cost also comes from those voters. In fact, if we were to take the whole population of the country, that cost is $757.50 per person.

Therefore it is no surprise that the people in York--Simcoe do not like this budget. For a typical family of four, with the husband and wife both working, what is their share of the Liberal pre-election spending spree? It is $3,030 which has to come from somewhere and that is from that family. They cannot afford $3,030 of their money to prop up a corrupt Liberal government.

For years now, spending has been out of control up here in Ottawa. Program spending has been going up over 10% a year. Ask my constituents if they have enjoyed 10% more in services from the federal government. I have yet to meet a single constituent who tells me that he or she has. They are not getting more services but all along the public service continues to grow and the spending continues to grow.

Bill C-48, the NDP budget--if I can paraphrase the comments of the hon. member for Newmarket--Aurora today for her comfort--is not a complex bill. In fact it could have been written on the head of a pin without using special equipment. It is but a few sentences long and about only chunks of money that will be thrown at target areas.

That is too often the way the Liberal government works. It takes a chunk of money, identifies it and throws it somewhere. There is no plan and no details. I know we would find a more detailed financial breakdown on a McDonald's menu than we have in Bill C-48. A grocery bill has a more detailed financial plan and breakdown than we find in Bill C-48.

The substantive part of the bill is about four sentences long and about seven or eight figures get stated. That is not a plan. That is simple, straightforward vote buying. It is $4.6 billion out the window and overall, in this whole $25 billion spending spree, $3,030 from each family in my community that they have to find a way to pay. Those are their tax dollars.

What do they really want? My constituents tell me that they want a chance to achieve their dreams. What would $3,030 mean for each of them, if it were in their pockets, to achieve their dreams? Having $3,030 less while the government tries to tell them what their dreams are and tries to force its solutions on them is not what they had in mind. They had other plans for that $3,030. They had plans to pay down their mortgage, to pay for some long overdue car repairs, to put the kids in hockey for another year or buy a couple of new bicycles as the kids get older. That is why $3,030 lost to them means a lot.

What they want is the opportunity to spend that $3,030 on the things that are important for them. Why are they losing that $3,030? It is because a deal was made with the leader of the New Democratic Party to prop up a government that is corrupt, that is desperate and that is willing to do anything to win. What they want to see is an end to this government waste.

My constituents are not unique. All Canadians want to see this. None of this is here. There is just a new bunch of more government waste. This is a typical government solution: identify the money, throw it at the target but have no plan for what to do with it. To me the worst example of how government waste happens is when there is a chunk of money looking for something to do.

Let the people of Canada and the people of York--Simcoe choose how they want to spend their $3,030.

Housing is supposed to be a priority in this bill. Well, $3,030 would go a long way for each family in my constituency to help deal with their housing challenges; $3,030 would go a long way to help pay down the mortgage; $3,030 would go a long way to help pay their rent, because that is what the Liberals are taking from them in spending priorities elsewhere that they cannot spend on their housing.

What could $3,030 do for training and post-secondary education? If each family could have that money they could put it away and save for their children's education and for the future. People could go through an entire community college program for $3,030 in tuition. If that was their dream, if that is what they wanted to do, to make a brighter future for their families, is that not what they should be allowed to do. Instead the leader of the New Democratic Party is taking that money from them, along with the Prime Minister, to prop up a government and make it look like they are doing something for Canadians. In fact they are really taking from Canadians.

We want to see Canadians achieve their dreams.

Another priority, supposedly, in Bill C-48 is the environment. My constituents in York--Simcoe want to see money spent on the environment in their community to clean up Lake Simcoe. For years and years the federal Liberal government has stubbornly refused to part with any money to support cleanup and environmental improvements to Lake Simcoe. It will do it for the rest of the Great Lakes but it will not allow any money for Lake Simcoe which is the centre of the Great Lakes basin.

Tens of thousands rely on Lake Simcoe for their clean drinking water. It is a critical part of their environment. The government talks about helping the environment and yet stubbornly refuses to allow that money to be spent right here in Canada, right in York-Simcoe where people have real priorities. Those are the priorities that we find the people of York--Simcoe want when they want to see spending on things like the environment.

I ask how I can in good conscience, knowing the dreams, hopes and aspirations of a typical family in York--Simcoe, support the waste of money, the confiscatory taxation, the fact that this NPD-Liberal budget means $3,030 out of the pockets of every family in my constituency?

I see some Liberals over there smiling but they should know that $3,030 is not a small amount of money to the hardworking families in York--Simcoe. It is a serious amount of money. It takes a lot to earn $3,030 and to have that taken away from them is taking away the freedom to achieve their dreams, the freedom to build a brighter future for themselves and their children, the freedom to pay off the mortgage and the freedom to save for their future and their education. It is taking away from them the opportunities to do that.

I have a high regard for the typical family in York--Simcoe. The people in that community do not believe the government owes them a living. They do not believe anyone owes them a living. They just want the freedom and the opportunity to go out and work to achieve their dreams. They just want someone to allow them to keep a little more in their pockets for the hard work and toil they do. They want the opportunity to make a better life and have a brighter future for their families. The spending plan of the Liberal government in Bill C-48 leaves them $3,030 further behind in achieving those dreams.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, let me make it very clear. The government supports and continues to support tax reductions. We had the largest personal income tax cuts in Canadian history of $100 billion over five years. I heard a member over there earlier talk about 10 years, but it is five years.

Bill C-43 includes tax cuts for small and medium business. If the member's party votes against Bill C-48, then those reductions will not be there. On the corporate side, the member well knows that he will have an opportunity after this evening to continue to support the government when legislation is introduced on the corporate tax side.

If the member wants to support tax cuts generally, he has to vote for both Bill C-43 and Bill C-48. If the opportunity arises, he will be able to deal with the corporate issue.

[Jim Abbott, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my Liberal friend seems to get his lexicon a bit mixed up. He keeps on talking about investments instead of expenditures, an additional $4 billion of expenditures.

He also seems to have picked up the NDP disease. Those members do not realize that corporate taxes are not paid by corporations. Corporate taxes are paid by the corporation's customers.

The member seems to know a bit about business. Surely to goodness he would not think that telling the NDP that the government is not going to be going ahead with the corporate tax reductions is a good move. The member, particularly coming from Ontario, knows it will cost thousands of jobs if we do not get those corporate tax reductions. How can he possibly vote for Bill C-48?

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the party across the way originally supported the budget. I assume at that time the hon. member supported more money for the environment, which is in Bill C-43 and Bill C-48. I assume at the time the member across the way supported more money for affordable housing. I assume he supported assistance for Canadians in terms of affordable housing, which was very important. We announced that. It is an enhancement within a strong fiscal framework. I am surprised that the member's party would say that it would support Bill C-43 tonight, but not to enhancing it, making something even better.

We said from the beginning in the House that the government was prepared to work with other parties to ensure that we had good government for Canadians. We worked with the NDP and now have a budget which Canadians support even more so because it is fiscally responsible and is a good investment.

If the hon. member is going to stand up tonight and say that he supports the environment so he will vote for Bill C-43, then I applaud him. However I presume the member is then going to stand up on Bill C-48 and say that he cannot support it because it has another $900 million for public transit, for wind power, et cetera. The member cannot have it both ways. He cannot support one part of the budget but not the other part, because obviously the government would fall.

I hope the member will reflect and realize that if he really supports these good investments, he will have to support them across the board. We are committed both in terms of small and medium tax cuts, which is in Bill C-43. The minister has made it very clear in the legislation dealing with corporate taxes.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Dewdney—Alouette, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has me a bit confused and I hope he can help me out.

He has gone on about how important the things in Bill C-48 are, but they did not show up in Bill C-43 when the government had the first crack at it. This really makes me question how sincere the government is in these so-called priorities. It looks as if the government is buying the votes of the NDP.

We all saw the agreement on TV. It looked like they borrowed a Sharpie from somebody, found a blank page and scribbled out these things on a napkin. These do not look like real priorities to me. I would like to see the plans for them. If they are so important, why were they not in the original budget that the Liberals thought was so good that they said it could not be cherry-picked?

I am confused about another thing too. The corporate tax cuts are not reflected in Bill C-48 as far as I can tell from my reading of the legislation. My recollection is that this agreement between the Liberals and the NDP committed to removing certain corporate tax cuts. I am not sure if this is in Bill C-48 or whether it is going to be done separately or is the government pulling the wool over the NDP's eyes? I would like some clarification on that too.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

In the G-7 and in the world. We have a plan for Canadians to deal with the issue of climate change.

There are some in the House, unfortunately, who do not believe the ice age occurred and they do not believe that climate change is a problem. We on this side are realistic. We know there is a problem. We know that Canada must take an active leadership role. This country and the Minister of the Environment are doing that.

Bill C-48 proposes a further $900 million for further environmental measures focusing primarily on public transit and a low income energy retrofit program. This investment builds on the government's continued focus on the environment, including the measures contained in budget 2005, which is the greenest budget in Canadian history.

Who could vote against the greenest budget in Canadian history? If members really believe in climate change, if they really believe that the environment is important to Canadians, they will make a difference tonight when they vote for Bill C-48. And if they do not, any rhetoric I hear on that side is simply that.

In the budget there is $1 billion over five years for the clean fund, the climate fund. This is very important. It will encourage cost-effective projects that reduce greenhouse gas emissions. This is very important. We have the fiscal instruments to move forward on climate change.

There is $250 million in the budget to create a partnership fund for projects that are best achieved through cooperation between the federal government and the provincial and territorial governments. We will work in partnership. Again, who could argue against working in partnership?

In the budget there is $225 million over five years to quadruple the number of homes retrofitted under the EnerGuide for houses retrofit incentive program.

There is $200 million over five years to further stimulate the use of wind power. We talk about alternate energy sources. Again, here is an opportunity for members to stand in their places tonight and vote for it.

I could go on highlighting how important Bill C-48 is, but I know hon. members and all Canadians know it is important. Tonight we will demonstrate that leadership.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise on Bill C-48, particularly given the fact that the government has had eight balanced budgets or better. Canada is the only G-7 state paying off its national debt. We have been able to do that because of good fiscal management. That is what has characterized the government and its ability to invest in the social priorities of Canadians.

Clearly the budget Bill C-48 is important in terms of ensuring that the social foundations which are key to Canada's identity are enhanced. They are enhanced in Bill C-48. This is a natural extension of the initiatives the government has pursued over the last few years. It is clear that the priorities of Canadians are to ensure that we have affordable housing, post-secondary education, a good environment and foreign aid. That is what the budget in particular and the bill deal with.

We are investing in a way that ensures we do not in any way affect the financial gains that we have made as a nation over the years. We will never go back into a deficit. That has been a commitment of the government. At the same time, it is because we have managed well that we are able to make these important investments for Canadian families, cities and communities. That is extremely important in terms of the fiscal foundation.

The government is committed to spending $4.6 billion on these investments which will be financed through fiscal reserves that are in excess of $2 billion in 2005-06 and in 2006-07. A guarantee of $4 billion over these two years will be committed to pay down the national debt. This is extremely important. We are the envy of the western world. We are the envy of those whose major concern is how to deal with balancing the books. In our case, we have the ability not only to pay down the debt but also to make these important investments.

One of the areas is affordable housing. The bill proposes $1.6 billion for affordable housing. It is very important to note that this is not tied to matching funds from the provinces. It also includes aboriginal housing. This builds on government investments totalling $2 billion in the homeless and affordable housing over recent years.

In 1999 the government launched the three year national homelessness initiative. A key element of this was the supporting communities partnership initiative which provided $305 million for local community groups to offer support services and facilities for the homeless.

Budget 2003 provided a three year extension of that initiative at $135 million. Furthermore, budget 2001 announced $680 million over five years for the affordable housing initiative to help stimulate the creation of more affordable units. Bilateral cost sharing agreements were subsequently signed with all 13 jurisdictions in Canada. A top-up of $320 million over five years was announced in budget 2003, bringing the total federal investment in affordable housing to $1 billion over six years.

The government continued to do more in budget 2003. It announced a three year renewal of the government's housing renovation programs at a cost of $128 million a year.

In addition, the government currently spends $1.9 billion per year in support of existing social housing units. Who could be against that? It is an investment for Canadians. Clearly when members look at themselves in the mirror, they will realize that this is important for Canadians as a foundation. Social housing has played an important role in Canada. I cannot believe anyone would contemplate voting against it.

The bill also provides $1.5 billion to increase accessibility to post-secondary education. We have heard a lot in the House about the needs of students. Although the Government of Canada does not deal with the issue of tuition, it can, and in the bill does, assist students who come out of university having acquired significant debts, particularly low income families. As well there is training money to supplement labour market agreements.

Since balancing the budget, the government has provided significant new funding in support of post-secondary education through increased transfer support to provinces and territories and increased direct support to students and universities. We are ensuring that future generations will be able to come out of university in much better financial shape. I cannot believe that anyone in the House would not support assistance for students.

The government continues to transfer support for post-secondary education through the Canada social transfer, a block transfer to provinces and territories. Each province and territory is responsible for allocating federal support according to its respective priorities within that jurisdiction regarding post-secondary education and other social programs.

Overall, the Canada social transfer will provide $15.5 billion in 2005-06 and more than $8 billion in legislated cash levels and $7 billion in tax points. In addition, the Government of Canada provides about $5 billion annually in direct support for post-secondary education, and among other things, helps families save for their children's education.

When we look at that, we really wonder how anyone could not support that kind of assistance for students anywhere in this country. I would be really surprised to see any member stand up and have the audacity to say that he or she cannot support students. Why would members not support students? Why would they not be investing in our future?

When it comes to the environment, the government has been a leader. The Minister of the Environment, along with the Minister of Natural Resources and the Minister of Industry, unveiled the most aggressive climate change plan in the G-7.

[Réal Lapierre, Bloc, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Bill C-48 is in fact nothing more than a manifestation of the NDP's grievances with the federal budget, on the pretext, among other things, that it did not consider the social measures it contains to be equal to Canadians' needs. It then went on to hold out the possibility of an alliance with the Bloc Québécois and the Conservative Party if the budget were not reworked to their satisfaction.

Given that ultimatum, and the precarious status of the Liberal Party, a scenario was concocted in order to satisfy the NDP's demands by enhancing the scope of Bill C-43. This agreement in principle translates into reinvestments in the order of a total $4.5 billion over two years for social housing, education, the environment, international aid and protection of seniors' pensions. As well, the Liberals would temporarily step back from corporate tax breaks.

Now there is a fine wish list.

I have my doubts. Unfortunately, I do not believe it. It is a fact that it would be a very good thing to improve the sectors I have referred to. Everything we can get out of the government, we will take. But wait.

Why, assuming that they were sincere, did they not just amend the budget implementation bill, namely Bill C-43? Why have another bill? How can they commit themselves to two different things at the same time? Have my hon. friends developed the gift of ubiquity?

First, specific measures are established through the passage of Bill C-43, and corporations enjoy a substantial tax cut. Then a contradictory measure is proposed that can only sow dissatisfaction in the ranks of manufacturers—dissatisfaction that can lead, as we well know, to the withdrawal of funding from the party in power. That is the risk that they do not want to run. Bill C-48 does not meet the NDP's demand that the tax cuts for business be cancelled. Bill C-48 is conditional on the government running surpluses. Conditional—therefore without any real significance.

Even the leader of the NDP acknowledged in this House that the simple act of not making those tax cuts could create a surplus and therefore prevent it all from happening.

They try to take us to 2008 to justify keeping this measure in the original budget. The Minister of Finance himself offered this interpretation to the leader of the New Democratic Party in answer to a question in this House. What lovely evasion! What sleight of hand!

The government does not want any amendments to its budget because that would confirm a measure that is unpopular with an elite that has a long reach and is very powerful.

Let us look at other provisions in the extra budget. There is an additional $900 million for the environment. That could be interesting. Unfortunately, this melody is playing in a minor mode. Despite the importance of the sectors that were identified, namely public transit and energy efficiency, this additional money will not produce convincing results. The gist of it is bad.

The famous Project Green, announced last April 13, is like Swiss cheese. The polluter—the oil and gas industry—is paid through subsidies, while the government still refuses to encourage people to use public transit by making the cost of their passes tax deductible.

And yet these people are doing something concrete for the environment. The people responsible for half the greenhouse gas emissions should logically be forced to come up with an effort proportional to the damage that they do. Instead, the financial burden is shifted to the taxpayer.

If we extrapolate, the cost of a bus pass has just trebled.

And on top of that, this budget provision on the environment infringes on areas under the jurisdiction of the provinces and Quebec, such as public transit. Whatever works.

Quebec's greenhouse gas emission profile differs significantly from that of the other provinces. Why would it be penalized for being cleaner? It should instead be congratulated and encouraged and get its fair share of the tax base provided for implementing the Kyoto accord in order to improve its performance.

Under the circumstances, Quebec should have the funds to enable it to choose what best suits its plans for the future. The approach should be territorial, as the Bloc has already suggested in this House. Otherwise, the government should grant full financial compensation.

Holes in cheese give it some style, but do not improve its flavour. In other words, I prefer Swiss cheese to Project Green. We can take pleasure in the fact that some low income earners will perhaps be able to improve the energy capacity of their homes Maybe, we will see.

In the area of social housing, the government is in a sorry state. It consistently remains far below the level of the needs and therefore the expectations of social groups. While the official budget made no provision in this vital area, the government is now offering $1.6 billion for two years. Investment would certainly be welcome.

The Bloc, however, is calling for a progressive investment over three years, in order to reach an acceptable peak of nearly $2 billion a year. The demand is realistic and necessary. The urgency of the situation has been amply demonstrated by the growth in need since this government took office.

The amounts conceded to the NDP must not be the subject of electoral blackmail, but rather serve the most disadvantaged.

Housing responsibilities and the corresponding budgets must be sent to Quebec as quickly as possible.

If we look at the proposal on education and post-secondary education, we can see yet again that it is open to blackmail. It is all the more unacceptable because we, along with the Government of Quebec, are calling for federal funding for education to be 25% of spending. The political agreement with the NDP is unsatisfactory, because the $188 million Quebec might receive is paltry compared with the $12.2 it spends.

The federal government's commitment to international assistance remains clearly inadequate. While assistance in any amount is welcome, an additional $500 million will not change the fate of the planet. We absolutely need a long term plan to achieve the international target of 0.7% of GDP by 2015. It is outrageous for a rich country like Canada to claim not to be able to achieve the minimum before 2033.

Obviously, it cannot be any other way with the 8% annual increase proposed by the government. That is a disgrace. We are proposing an increase of 12% per year for three years and 15% per year after that, up to 2015. If the NDP is prepared to settle for $500 million, so be it, but I am not.

So, what does Bill C-48 do for my own riding?

Cull producers will continue to suffer because of the underfunding with respect to the mad cow issue. Only fair compensation could have made things better for them. The problem is still there for beef producers.

Would there be any possibility of providing recovery assistance to our shipyard, which, hon. members should know, is a major economic engine for my riding? There is nothing in the budget or Bill C-48. Canada would have much to gain, however, from a real shipbuilding policy.

Was the Summer Career Placement program in my riding designed on the basis of real needs, and is the funding allocated adequate? Certainly not, since an indefensible cut was made to the program.

Is there anything for the tourism and leisure industry, which is a path for the future? No.

Has the funding earmarked for the community sector, which is essential in our area like in any other, been increased? Again, no.

So, to Bill C-48 I humbly say, no, thank you.

Business of the House

[Tony Valeri, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I know the hon. member was attempting to show some civility. He has great difficulty in doing that.

After completing the debate on the budget bills, Bill C-43 and Bill C-48, the House will take up third reading of Bill C-9, the Quebec development bill; Bill C-23, the human resources legislation; Bill C-22, the social development bill; and Bill C-26, the border services legislation.

We would also like to deal with the census bill, Bill S-18 and the RADARSAT bill, Bill C-25. If there is time, we would start Bill C-46, the corrections and conditional release bill; Bill C-47, the Air Canada bill; and Bill C-28, the food and drugs bill.

This list of legislation will carry the House well into the week of May 30, the week in which we return from the break.

In addition, three days that week shall be allotted days, namely May 31, June 2 and June 3. On May 31 the House will go into committee of the whole to consider the estimates of the Minister of Social Development.

I look forward to working with all of my colleagues in the House because I know, and all members know, it is in the interests of Canadians to get this Parliament working on the issues that are important to them.

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain Payments

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise today to possibly change the subject a little to that bill which we would like to discuss and to which I would like to speak in opposition, that being Bill C-48.

In reading the introduction, “An Act to authorize the Minister of Finance to make certain payments”, I think the House would want to be much more precise than that. That certainly concerns me, as I am sent here to represent my constituents and I am sure that they would be very concerned about that also.

The past few weeks have seen anger and recrimination in the House, and so in fact have the last few minutes. Frustration with legislative paralysis and personal and professional insults hurled across the floor like a bunch of kids in a sandbox is not productive.

I speak today in an effort to remind the members of the Liberal minority government that Canadians deserve a government which inspires the nation with its vision and which brings Canadians together with its leadership. Rather than use my 10 minutes to turn up the heat or chase partisan quarrels, I want to talk directly to my constituents and to Canadians across the country to explain why the Conservative Party cannot support this Liberal-NDP budget amendment.

As I mentioned, I am opposed to this for a number of reasons. The first one I would like to raise is the fact that this is an NDP budget. I might remind those people here, as I would remind my constituents, that we did not elect an NDP government, and I would suggest intentionally so. In that case, why are we dealing with an NDP budget?

I would also suggest that if the minority Liberal government had consulted with Canadians and with the other parties in the House, we might have actually had a budget that could have passed back in March and we would not have had to go through all of this.

The Conservative Party of Canada at that time voted to continue this Parliament, to make things work and to make it better for all Canadians, as opposed to the NDP, which voted on March 9 to defeat the government. It is an interesting twist of fate that we find the NDP members suggesting they will vote with the Liberals on this NDP budget. That day, the NDP and the Bloc both attempted to defeat the government. The Conservatives have been working hard trying to make this work, but when we see a bill like this before us, we are having a difficult time supporting it.

I know my constituents. I have heard from many of them. They are frightened by this sort of bill being put forward with these unspecified spending qualifications, with $4.5 billion from a surplus. We are not sure what that surplus is now that the government has spent the billions of dollars it has in the last 30 or so days, with the Liberals flying back and forth across this country handing out money with no plan. It is money that should have gone to debt relief. That is a fundamental concern of my constituents, as it is of mine.

We have committed hundreds of millions of dollars with no plan whatsoever. It is a last minute plan, I suppose. Getting the Liberal government re-elected is the only reason I can see for the Liberals putting this kind of money out there in that form.

Conservatives want Canada to become more competitive. What we have seen in the last few days does not make this country more competitive. We have heard comments from this side of the House on the reality of how the economy works and what stimulates the economy. This budget is not good for the corporations in this country, so it will therefore not be good for Canadians. We need to recognize that. We need to be more relevant in trade. Trade is our future and we see nothing in here that stimulates trade.

We see nothing to get to the goals that we all recognize are very important in foreign aid. There is $500 million talked about here, again with no plan. We do not see any plan for any of the spending. We would like to see the foreign aid money be more targeted and more effective. The spending needs to be targeted, not just scattered wherever it may fall.

On this side of the House we would like to see a budget put forward that creates more jobs and does not overtax the employers. We all know and have heard how that will affect the taxpayers, our constituents. We need to provide good, accessible health care. We do not see that effect coming out of this NDP budget.

We need something very important in my riding, and that is some effective help for the agriculture industry. In the first budget that was tabled, I believe agriculture was mentioned once or possibly twice. There is a serious disaster going on in the agriculture industry, specifically with respect to BSE. Not only is there a disaster in the cattle industry, in the ruminant industry, but also in the grains and oilseeds industry.

All of the debate in the House has done nothing to help my constituents who are still suffering from the effects of the BSE situation. In fact processing plants have been applying for the money that will backstop processing facilities. The government announced a loan loss provision, but from my understanding, not one penny of it has gotten through to be poured in concrete. That is the sign of a very ineffective plan, but we have not seen anything to replace it.

The Conservative Party launched a process where we would be intervenors in the court case going on in Montana and moving on to San Francisco. The Liberal government attempted it, was rejected on the first claim and walked away. How is that going to help our producers? By ignoring them, ignoring the issue, it has not gone away; it has just gotten that much worse, in fact to the point where we may see the beef that is going across the border, as it flows now, being stopped in the next few weeks. That is a very real possibility with the new challenge coming up in Montana.

The NDP had a chance to deal with this. It had an opportunity to at least address the issues that affect farmers. Again I see nothing in here that will improve agriculture. That is one of the many reasons I have a difficult time accepting that this is a good budget because I do not see that it is at all.

There is a plan for CFIA to help expand markets. My understanding is that has not moved ahead. The agriculture minister stood in this House back in March and told us that the CFIA was going to work diligently to open markets. I do not believe that has happened. Once again our ruminant industry has been let down.

I have spoken about the CAIS program several times in the House. That program is not effective. It does not help the grains and oilseeds sector at a time when commodity prices, the grains and oilseeds prices in this country are probably the lowest in real dollars that we have ever seen. We have a program that our agriculture minister tells us will help farmers out, will buy them some time until we can see those commodity prices come back. In my own personal situation, I had applied for some of that money when I was an active farmer, before I came to this House. I owe half of that money back because that is how ineffective the system is. It does not put dollars into the pockets of farmers where it is needed.

My time is almost over and I respect that. I am enjoying what I am saying but I realize that we do have a time limit on debate.

We realize the corruptness that has gone on in the government and that is fundamental to my opposition to this bill. I cannot with any conscience support a piece of legislation like this bill, which in effect props up the government that we have watched demoralize the country and drive a wedge between the provinces.

I would like to close by reminding everyone that the type of behaviour we have seen is probably an indication of the demoralizing issues that have plagued the House. I certainly hope we see an end to it, which might even be as soon as this evening.

Budget Implementation Act, 2005

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to put a few thoughts on the record where Bill C-43 is concerned and perhaps to speak somewhat as well, flowing from that, on Bill C-48.

However, first, there were some things in Bill C-43 that we as a party appreciated and could support, but there was more in it that we could not. Because we could not support it, we voted against it, primarily because of the surprise in it, the Trojan Horse so to speak. It contained the next round of corporate tax breaks which we thought were unnecessary. They were not in keeping with the discussions our party and our finance critic had with the Minister of Finance on the Liberals' commitment during the election.

Based on the Liberal platform and the conversations we had with individual ministers, the commitment was not in any concrete way included in the budget. All of sudden, in an agreement to win the support of the Conservatives, significant corporate tax breaks were included in the budget which would take another $4.6 billion out of the public treasury. We felt that money should have been, and will be if we pass Bill C-48 tonight, spent on the priorities of Canadians for their communities, their children, their aging parents and their infrastructure.

The tax breaks in our view were yet another gift to those in our country who already had more than enough. They have been getting corporate tax breaks for the last 10 to 15 years. When I go back and speak to my constituents, they ask me these questions. When is enough, enough for the corporations of this country and the world? When is another increase in wages to the CEOs of some of the corporations enough? When is another stock option to executives in these corporations enough? When is more income for the wealthiest of our provinces enough? When does it turn to greed?

I believe we have gone beyond that point. It is time now for us who have been given responsibilities as leaders in the country to look at those things that we need to invest in, things that will support a standard of living, which we know we can afford, for our families, our neighbours, for everybody who calls themselves Canadian.

We were not happy with the corporate tax break. However, we were pleased with the commitment that the government made to a national child care program. Unfortunately, as it rolls out, the government now finds itself in a hurry, as we seem to be going headlong toward the possibility of en election. Agreements are being made with provinces that do not fit with the framework we believed was there, those of us who were involved in the discussions, lately me more than others.

Some people in this province have been working on child care for 20 to 30 years. They have done the research and the work. They know that if we are to have a national child care program that is worth its salt, that will deliver the services we know are needed by families, by children and by the economy, it needs to be framed in legislation. It needs to be based on the quad principles. It needs to be delivered through a not for profit delivery system.

We were very excited with the first two agreements that were signed by Manitoba and Saskatchewan, two New Democrat governments that understand those principles. They understand why it is important we stick to them. We need to a program that is right from the start. This is the first national program in over 25 years. Manitoba and Saskatchewan have committed to a framework of accountability. They also have committed to a not for profit delivery system, with which we are pleased. However, we now see that Ontario, Newfoundland and Nova Scotia are getting less and less of that commitment.

However, we are getting more anxious and nervous about the way the national child care program is beginning to roll out. We know that once it gets away, it is hard to get it back into shape. We need to ensure that it truly is a national child care program, not another patchwork of child care with more money. We need to ensure that the money is spent in an appropriate way so we get the best value as an investment in our children, families and the economy.

However, money has been allocated. Reference to a national child care program was first promised by the Liberals in 1993 and the Conservatives before that. Finally, there was a reference this past year because of a significant presence of New Democrats here pushing the Liberals in that direction. It was referenced in the Speech from the Throne and then it showed up in the budget. We were pleased about that.

The economy in my community is beginning to change its direction. We used to have some valuable high paying jobs in the resource based sector of steel and paper. Those jobs are becoming fewer and fewer. We are now looking at a growing sector of call centres where people do not make as much money. They do not make anywhere near the kind of money they used to make in those valuable, unionized jobs, in the industries that were industrial heartbeat of northern Ontario.

Ontario now has jobs that are less dependable. They do not pay as much. It is important that we have a good, affordable child care system in place for parents who want to participate. If they want to make ends meet, or want to buy a house, or pay the mortgage, or feed the kids, and all the things we want for ourselves and for our families, they probably will have to work two jobs. Some work two and three jobs in the same family. If they do not have good, affordable, high quality, safe child care available to them, they will be unable to do that.

The national child care program, however incomplete it is as it rolls out, because of the lack of commitment by the government to the principles and to the not for profit delivery system, is still very important. That is why we need to pass Bill C-48, the budget we negotiated with the Liberals, tonight. We need that money in our communities and in Sault Ste. Marie. It represents a significant growth in that sector, not only spaces for families and for children, but jobs for child care workers, good jobs and more money for those people already working in the child care sector. They will have benefits, pension plans, all the things we all want for ourselves.

The national child care program is a very important. We encourage members of the Bloc and Conservative Party to ensure that the bill goes through tonight so we can move forward with these.

I want to talk briefly about the criticisms by the Conservatives over the national child care program, which are misleading at best. They talk about an investment of $5 billion to $10 billion in our young people, our children, as somehow pouring money into a big black hole. Their suggestion as to how we might do this, which would be to give tax breaks or tax credits to parents to buy their own child care, would not create a national child care system. Also, it would cost us four or five times as much money to put in place. We are talking $20 billion to $25 billion if we add up all the money.

That is not to speak of the reduction in the economy if we remove those people who are skilled and trained, women in particular, from the workforce. The analysis that has been done by people who know, the economists, tells us that it could be anywhere from $70 billion to $80 billion a year. We are talking a cost of close to $100 billion a year if we follow the plan that the Conservatives have suggested is better than the plan in the budget, which would give us a $2 return for every dollar we spend in early learning and early child care for our children.

[Loyola Hearn, Conservative, St. John's South, NL]

Mr. Speaker, I listened with interest to the hon. member opposite. He is a person, over the few years I have been here, who has a social conscience, as I hope many of us here do, and his concern for the needs of society are probably second to none.

I have no argument whatsoever that people need money for education. One need only to check Hansard to see how often I have raised the need for investment in education. I have no doubt that we need shelters for the homeless. We have abandoned the people on the lower end of our society, people who cannot help themselves.

However I do have one concern. If the Liberals have the feeling that we must help people, that we must invest in education and that we must invest in housing to help the homeless, why is the money in Bill C-48, which he says must pass because we need to do this for these people, and not in the original budget? Why did the Liberals not think about these people when they brought down the budget? Why was it not brought in until they had to buy the NDP for a quarter of a billion dollars each to get its support to stay in power? How can they justify that in the eyes of the public?

[Paul Szabo, Liberal, Mississauga South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I had the opportunity to speak to Bill C-43 before the subsequent amendments and motions to be put.

I would first like to thank the Conservative Party for agreeing to support Bill C-43 today. The first inclination of the leader of the Conservative Party was that it was a good budget and that it was one his party could work with. We appreciate that.

The issue, however, has gone a little farther now. In my view, the debate has gone on for some time with regard to the amendments or the additions that have been made for the budgetary purposes included in Bill C-48.

In the main budget, Bill C-43, and I do not want to get into great detail, but members will recall that the range of the key items include health care, the Atlantic accord, the exercise of transfers of additional funds to our cities, the gas tax, day care, the military and a range of other important initiatives which have been well debated in this place.

The reality is that the Government of Canada is a minority government. I think everyone knows from the lessons of history what happens when a minority government tries to govern as if it has a majority. It is an untenable situation in which to be. It means there has to be a higher level of cooperation and give and take within Parliament. It has been so long since the last minority government , which was in 1980 and which fell in nine months, that it is taking a bit of time for the various parties to find their niche as to how we can make Parliament work.

Bill C-48 was the first concrete effort in which cooperation was made to show Canadians that a minority government could work. It is not the only item. Members well know that a large number of bills are at various stages of the legislative process, many of them in late stages in committee and ready to come back to this place for debate. They are important.

One of the bills that is very important to me is the whistleblower protection bill in government operations. It was here in the last Parliament. We are very close and I want the bill to come back. I want public servants, the important people who serve Canadians, to have whistleblower protection. It is a commitment of the government and in fact has the support of all parties. I think it would be a real shame if the budget were to go down and that legislation would die yet again before the House has had an opportunity to take it through all stages.

With regard to the so-called budget amendments, one thing I learned just recently was to look at the calendarization of the incremental spending that is being proposed in Bill C-48 and what impact it has. Interestingly enough, when one calendarizes the $4.6 billion, one sees that in the first year the impact is 1% of the total budget. It is a 1% increase in the total budget.

It is not an exorbitant amount in which someone would start to question whether the financial fundamentals on which the original budget was based have been compromised. If I could remind members, those are to include things like the $3 billion contingency fund on the principle that Canada will not go into a deficit. A $3 billion contingency fund has always been built into the budget.

There are also prudence factors which take into account that there are always estimates about what economic growth might be over the budget period and what short and long term interest rates might be. In the budget process, and I believe this has been articulated in every budget since 1997, there will be a conservative estimate of each of those made so that we err on the side of prudence. There is a prudence factor, which has varied from time to time, but it is in the range of about $2 billion.

When the Minister of Finance goes before the people of Canada and announces that we will have a balanced budget, the documents will show that it includes the assumption that the contingency of $3 billion and a prudence of $2 billion or $3 billion have in fact been necessary to be used. In fact, members should look at the budget as being the worst possible case that we can project, which is a balanced budget, no deficit but no surplus.

Because we have not had a recession in Canada for a long time, as members well know, and I am not sure whether any of the experts had ever anticipated that would be the case, we have gone through a very healthy economic climate in Canada as a consequence of the work of business and the people of Canada. We did not go into recession when the U.S. went into recession in the last round that it did.

As a result of the economic performance in Canada and the prudent budgeting principles that were included in the budget, surpluses have been created. Some would say that if surpluses have been created then obviously the people are being overtaxed.

Part of the equation of making a resilient economy, a resilient prudent and responsible fiscal position, is to manage the debt.

When we came here some 42¢ on every dollar was going to pay interest on the debt. Since that time we have paid down almost $60 billion of debt. The savings on the interest is what some economists have referred to as the fiscal dividend. When we get our economic house in order and there are savings, where do those savings come from? The permanent savings are the savings on the interest of financing the debt. That means that we have saved $2 billion to $3 billion annually on interest payments. These numbers keep going up because of the interest rate scenarios. This is an additional $3 billion each and every year available to sustain the important programs that Canadians want and, as time permits or as the finances permit, to introduce new programs, such as the additional moneys that have now been put into day care, another important initiative that Canadians want, or into cities, Kyoto, the military and foreign aid. We have certain priorities but they all cannot be dealt with in every budget at the same time.

However Bill C-48 brings in some other aspects. I know some members have suggested that this is just buying votes. I am not sure whether there is anyone in this place who would say that assistance for post-secondary education is inappropriate. I am not sure if anyone would vote against that. I think it is helpful. We need an educated workforce. We need to help those young people coming up to have the best possible education and be able to afford it.

Another element in Bill C-48 is additional moneys with regard to foreign aid. I do not know about other members but when I hear the details of the situation in the Sudan, particularly in Darfur, I get very concerned. How can I feel comfortable as a Canadian or happy as a person when I know there are people elsewhere in the world who have no chance to be happy, who are hungry, who do not have a roof over their heads, who have no security and whose lives are at risk? Foreign aid is an important aspect and it is important that Canada continue to play the appropriate role it can in leadership ways, as well as in providing aid to people.

What else is included in Bill C-48? Additional moneys with regard to the environment, for housing retrofits. Every little step that we can invest in ensuring our air is safe and clean and that we are dealing with greenhouse gases that affect climate change is important. Everyone knows that what comes with the creation of greenhouse gases are the health impacts created by the particulate matters. The investment in the environment is very much a health issue. Who in this place would be against the health issue?

Finally, with regard to Bill C-48, there is affordable housing. I will have to tell members that I will debate anybody in this place at any time about the importance of providing affordable housing for those who need it. Every time we touch one level of housing, if there is more affordable housing that means people who are currently in social housing may be able to now move forward into the next level, it will free up social housing.

I believe this is a good news story. I am very hopeful that Bill C-43 and Bill C-48 will pass. All Canadians in all regions of the country will benefit from this and it will demonstrate to Canadians that Parliament is working.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Speaker, when my colleague talks about a budget that should not be changed, he should remember we are in a minority government right now and that is when change occurs. That is when there is an opportunity for other parties to have an input. That is what happened during the time of Tommy Douglas. During a budget debate he said that if the government wanted the budget to go through, that it would have to give Canadians public health care across the country.

That is the practice when there is a minority government. Instead of just fighting in the House of Commons, we can do some work instead. I am proud that this is what the NDP has done. In two days we have done some work for Canadians. Ordinary people who vote can say that finally there is a change. The people who live on the street in Toronto in front of city hall and sleep on cardboard say that maybe they will finally have a home.

It is not a shame to change one's mind in a minority government. It has been done in the past. Canadians will say that the best government they can get is a minority government because other people can have an input. Other countries like France are used to working with a minority government. It is not the first time that France has a minority government and good stuff happens to ordinary people.

However, the Conservatives only want to look at big corporations. They want to cut taxes. They do not care if we are going to have money for highways. They do not care if we are going to have money for schools. They do not care if we have money for health care. No, they are going to privatize. If people are sick and have money, they will be served in a hospital, but if they are poor, they can stay on the sidewalk in Toronto and die there. The Conservatives do not mind that.

I say that is wrong. This is a good budget, especially with the additions put in Bill C-48. In the past we know that the opposition parties always vote against the budget. That is the practice. However, when the budget came into the House of Commons, the leader of the Conservatives said that this is a good budget. He said that his party would not bring down the government because this is a good budget. He broke the practice of the House. That is what has been done.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Madam Speaker, I wish I could have had a chance to raise a question for my colleague from the Conservative Party. I stood up, but two Liberals in a row were recognized instead of another party.

I wish I could have raised a question for my colleague from the Conservative Party on his saying that Bill C-48 is so vague. It is on one page, he said, and he asked what the government will do with that money, saying that it is pretty vague.

I remember, though, when the budget came down in the House of Commons from the Minister of Finance. The Minister of Finance had not even had the time to finish it when the leader of the Conservative Party ran outside and said he would vote for it. He did not even know what was in the budget at that time. The only thing he knew was that the taxes would go down from 21% to 19% for the big corporations. He ran outside saying he could not vote against the budget because it was a good budget.

The Leader of the Opposition never raised a question about what big business would do with that, what presidents of companies who are getting paid $10 million per year would do with that. He did not raise any questions about that. He was not worried about big corporations.

Let us look at the accord with Newfoundland and Labrador, which we agree with. There was $2 billion for the accord with Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia, negotiated very fast not too long ago. Tonight the Conservative Party members will probably vote for the budget bill, Bill C-43, because they want that $2 billion going to Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia without knowing what is going to happen with it.

It seems to me that the problem, as always, is that when the NDP wants to have a good budget to bring to the ordinary people, it is wrong. That is what the Conservative Party stands for.

As I said, it is a great pleasure for me to be able to speak to Bill C-43 and the improvements to it contained in Bill C-48. The Liberal colleague from Prince Edward Island said that Bill C-43 was a good budget. The only thing he neglected to say is that, thanks to the NDP amendments to it proposed in Bill C-48, after two days of negotiations with the NDP leader, Canadians' interests are really being served. For example, and I cannot say this often enough, $1.6 billion will go to affordable housing construction, of which there was not a word in Bill C-43. This investment will put roofs over the heads of the homeless.

That is what causes a problem for the Conservatives. They say they can support C-43 but not C-48. They are not concerned for ordinary Canadians. It is as if they wanted people to stay out on the street, since there is no place and no money for them.

As for post-secondary education and worker training, there will be $1.5 billion to reduce the cost of post-secondary education and thus to help students and their families. The Conservatives are incapable of voting in favour of such a measure, because they want Canadian students to be in debt. Is that the message they want to send? The Conservatives will apparently vote in favour of Bill C-43 but against Bill C-48, which includes $1.5 billion to reduce the debt load of young Canadians. The Conservatives cannot vote in favour of that. They accuse the NDP of being too fond of spending because it wants to lighten the debt load of Canadian young people. Nothing could be more ridiculous. One hopes that Canadians will see through this.

Then there is $900 million for the environment. How can anybody argue that they do not want a clean planet for future generations? This planet does not belong to us. It belongs to everyone now and in the future. We have responsibilities toward the entire planet and we all need to do our part. How can the Conservatives vote against Bill C-48 and its $900 million allocated to the environment, which is so dear to us and so essential to our health?

This evening, how can the Conservatives vote against Bill C-48, after voting on Bill C-43, which will allocate 1¢ more per litre of gas? In the budget, the Liberal government agreed that a tax of 5¢ per litre of gas will go to the towns and municipalities in our country for infrastructure. How can the Conservatives vote against allocating 1¢ more to the municipalities of Calgary and Edmonton, in Alberta? This evening, how can the Conservatives rise in the House and vote in favour of Bill C-43, indicating that the Liberals have a good budget, but then vote against Bill C-48? When it is time to help our municipalities, students in debt and poor people in the streets, the Conservatives are absent.

Unfortunately, I do not approve of one part of the budget. Unfortunately, the government did not give more for employment insurance. The parliamentary committee issued a recommendation on February 15, asking the government to consider the best 12 weeks worked and to eliminate the divisor of 14. This would have helped all Canadians in regions where employment is seasonal. It would have helped people in Newfoundland and Labrador, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, the Gaspé and the North Shore, in Quebec. Unfortunately, the government decided not to consider the best 12 weeks, and this is too bad. I am asking the government once again to reconsider.

Today, people entitled to EI benefits after working for 12 weeks receive only 55% of their salary.

These women and men work in industries that pay very little, almost minimum wage: $8 per hour. If you take 55% of that, it is less than welfare. The government has set the divisor at 14, assuming that workers would abuse the system by quitting their jobs. That is wrong. That is a totally false assumption, because those who quit their jobs are not eligible for employment insurance. That is why I find it terribly unfortunate that there is nothing for them in Bill C-43. When we look at the government's budget, we can see that it contains no details about employment insurance. Any details were provided only in the press release issued by the minister the same day as this budget bill was introduced.

Today, the government still has the authority to make it the 12 best weeks. The federal government has had a new Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development for two days now. I would like to ask the new minister to show sensitivity to the plight of these workers. There are women working in fish plants in the Acadian peninsula, the Gaspé and Quebec's North Shore. These women and men working in Newfoundland and Labrador, Prince Edward Island or Nova Scotia cannot pick and chose their jobs. This is not Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary or Edmonton. These people need an income to feed their kids, buy clothes for them and send them to school.

The best thing we could do to promote economic development is whatever can be done to ensure that people are educated and healthy. How can one hope to achieve that while driving people to poverty? How? There is no way anyone can succeed that way.

Many of the studies that were conducted and presented to the House of Commons were adopted by the government. But when it comes to ordinary people, it is a very different story. And Bill C-48 is a case in point.

The Conservatives voted against changes to EI knowing that they involved improving conditions for ordinary people, the workers. This is not acceptable, but their political party was entitled to do so. People will decide democratically whether they will vote for them or not. However, those watching now must remember that that is what the Conservatives will be doing this evening.

The Liberal government, however, has a responsibility to respond to the request of the Subcommittee on the Employment Insurance Funds, which proposed the 12 best weeks and 360 hours to qualify for EI. The government has not made the necessary changes to help these people, but there is still time for it to do so.

There is a $46 billion surplus in the employment insurance fund. The Conservatives are concerned because $250 million is missing in the sponsorship fund and $100 million could have been invested elsewhere. I do not support that. However, $46 billion, which belonged to workers, was withdrawn from the employment insurance fund. I wonder which scandal is bigger.

I hope that this evening all the political parties will use common sense and vote for bills C-48 and C-43 so that ordinary folks have a chance for a better life.