Bill C-45 (Historical)

Fisheries Act, 2007

An Act respecting the sustainable development of Canada's seacoast and inland fisheries

This enactment repeals and replaces the Fisheries Act. It seeks to provide for the sustainable development of Canadian fisheries and fish habitat in collaboration with fishers, the provinces, aboriginal groups and other Canadians.
It sets out management principles governing the exercise of responsibilities under the Act, and provides tools and authorities to improve the ability of the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans to properly manage fisheries and fish habitat.
Part 1 establishes a regime for the proper management and control of fisheries. It allows the Minister to stabilize access and allocation in fisheries, issue fishing licences, conclude agreements with groups that participate in a fishery and issue fisheries management orders.
Part 2 provides for the conservation and protection of fish and fish habitat.
Part 3 provides for the control and management of aquatic invasive species.
Part 4 provides the necessary powers to administer and enforce the Act.
Part 5 establishes the Canada Fisheries Tribunal and sets out a system of licence sanctions for fisheries violations to be administered by that Tribunal, which will also consider appeals of licence decisions.
Part 6 provides for regulations and other related matters required for the administration of the Act.
Part 7 sets out transitional provisions, consequential amendments and coordinating amendments and repeals certain other Acts.

Financial Statement of Minister of Finance

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the hon. member for Vancouver Centre.

It was interesting listening to the fisheries minister. It is amazing how people can change their views. He has said in the House and in the media that Premier Danny Williams is wrong, that he is not stating the facts. In a sense he is saying that he is lying, or that he does not understand, that he is not intelligent. I know him to be a very intelligent guy.

The Premier of Nova Scotia is saying exactly what that member said a couple of years ago; that the Atlantic accord has to be above and beyond any other change in programs, any new programs. He said that a decision did not have to be made. He said that premiers do not have to swallow a poisoned pill. The minister now has a different understanding. His mathematics are different.

A change happens in a member when he spends too much time in a Challenger jet. He sees numbers and the facts differently. As a minister, he now understands things in a completely different way than he did when he was a member. He somehow believes that he has a clear insight into the finances of Newfoundland and Labrador from his office in Ottawa, finances that are impossible to see from St. John's, that Premier Williams absolutely cannot understand. He cannot see that less is more.

I will speak about other matters also.

We cannot say that the budget is all bad. Not all the initiatives in the budget are bad. It is theoretically impossible to have the largest spending budget in the history of Canada to not have a few good initiatives in it. I welcome the capital tax exemption for Canadians. The Conservative government had a lot of money with which to work. It had large surpluses that were built up by the Liberal government. It had a lot of potential.

I cannot support the budget because it is a huge lost opportunity, and I regret that. The Prime Minister has not tried to hide the intent of the budget. It is intended to target a group of people in the most populace regions of the most populace provinces who are most likely to change their vote for the Conservatives and force a majority government. That is it. The budget is all about majority building, not nation building.

When we have the ability and the surpluses to build a nation, in my mind and in the minds of all Canadians, we should try to assist those who are most in need. We should try to develop potential when there are problems.

The government had an opportunity to assist Canadians in problem situations. With the proper investments, the government could have helped them out. It could have given them a hand up so they could have full participation in the economy. The government could have helped other regions. What do we see? We see targeted money going to the most populace areas, to the richest provinces. The government is ignoring single seniors and families and children in poverty who are in great need. The government needs to make real investment in innovation and post-secondary education. We do not see that. Money is not targeted for those who need it. It is very simple to send a lot of money to Quebec, Ontario, and Alberta in an attempt to influence those urbanites to vote for the Conservatives. That is all I see.

With respect to the Atlantic accord, Nova Scotia signed an agreement that its natural resources, such as offshore gas, would be used for its benefit and the money would be above and beyond any other funding program in equalization, health, education or infrastructure.

The Premier of Nova Scotia now has to swallow a poisoned pill. If he wants new money in equalization under the new formula, he has to forgo the potential benefits of the Atlantic accord, benefits that would have been there for the next 15 years. He has to sign away the future of Nova Scotia for much needed cash in the short term. This is unfair and it is certainly contrary to the intent of the accord and contrary to the stated intentions of the Prime Minister when he was in opposition. That is unacceptable.

There is no new money for ACOA. We see diminished funding. We see less spending and investments by ACOA. There is a huge opportunity to maintain the principle, but we know the Prime Minister does not like the agency and that it will suffer the death of a thousand cuts over time.

There were some good initiatives for our farmers a couple of weeks ago. There was an opportunity in the budget to assist the regions, to help farmers in Atlantic Canada, particularly in Nova Scotia where we produce less than we consume. We are not part of the problem in overproduction, but our farmers are being starved out of the industry. There is nothing in the budget to help them. The opportunity was there to work with the provincial government, but we do not see that potential.

When we see the attack on the Wheat Board, we know supply management is at risk. Some time ago he called it a glorified communist plot against the free market. I do not remember the exact terms he used, but it is the same type of thinking with which he has been attacking the Wheat Board. When the Prime Minister applies that to supply management, rest assured our supply management sector will be in trouble.

In my part of the country the poultry farmers and producers, egg producers and dairy farmers are the basic building blocks of the community. They are stable and doing quite well, not leaping great riches, but they are supplying jobs and participating in the economy. They need domestic protection to be maintained. A government sponsored price fixing cartel I guess is what he called supply management. We have to be very vigilant and seriously call the government to task on these matters.

I am pleased that the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans was in the House to speak. He was on the committee of fisheries and oceans when a report called for more funding for small craft harbours, which I agreed with as a minister. I was minister of ACOA at the time. I was able to get a $100 million investment over five years into small craft harbours. That expired this year.

In our election platform last year we promised to put in even more money, and that is what is needed. What do we see? We see the government letting it expire. The Minister of Fisheries and Oceans hypocritically called for more funding when he was in opposition. Now that he is Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, he is calling for less funding. Not only did he let that $20 million a year lapse by not reintroducing the funding next year, but there is less funding for Small Craft Harbours.

I was amazed and amused, but irritated, yesterday when on a question from the Bloc Québécois, he indicated in the House that he would find some money here and there for the wharf in the Bloc member's riding to get his support for Bill C-45. There are good elements to Bill C-45, but there are some very difficult, scary elements for the fishing industry that he does not seem to want to clarify.

I remember the opposition talking about how it was important to invest in the Digby wharf. We do not see that any more. There have been five years of legal wrangling brought about because the member for Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley made some very serious allegations, allegations and questions that I shared, and they had to be answered. The legal process ended up 14 months ago.

We were told that the fault was the contract written by the Department of Transport. Has the Minister of Transport stepped up to the plate? Do we see anything in the budget to get that facility back in the hands of the community? I believe it should be owned by Small Craft Harbours, like the other fishing harbours, and administered by a local harbour authority with the proper funding assistance. We see none of that.

There is the Digby/St. John ferry service. Last year I was pleased that the federal government, with the provincial governments of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, found a short term two year solution for that ferry service. However, I did not see anything about it in the budget, but I will keep some hope. I understand the bureaucrats within the Department of Transport are working seriously at finding a long term solution. I encourage the minister to take quick action to ensure that we know a good year or year and a half in advance of the termination of the agreement that there will be a long term service there so businesses can make the necessary plans.

The government had a real opportunity to assist working families. What did it give them? In some cases $20 a week. It did nothing for the working poor. We know the federal government does not want to put anything in the second budget or third budget next year. It wants to force an election. It gave away every opportunity it had to help the poor.

If promised next year, there will be another cut in the GST. That is $6 billion. The $6 billion invested in the child tax benefit would bring a million children above the poverty line, and he has given away that potential. We know that next year it will be a very difficult budget. I am afraid we may go back toward deficit financing in the medium to short term with the type of budget introduced this year. We are not helping to build our country or our nation. Nor are we helping those most in need.

I am afraid I cannot support this budget. While I like some initiatives within it, it would be impossible for me to stand in support of a budget that throws away so much opportunity to build a nation.

Fisheries and Oceans

[Loyola Hearn, Conservative, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, while I thank the hon. member for his question, let me also thank him and the Bloc for coming out publicly and asking the Liberals to move ahead with Bill C-45.

Let me say for the member, who is a very good representative for his fishermen, that we will, not through the budget but through the regulatory process and work already under way, be very shortly announcing positive moves that will help his fishermen and fishermen all across the country.

Fisheries

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Mr. Speaker, fishers in Cardigan and across the country have serious concerns regarding the federal government's proposed new fisheries act, Bill C-45.

The government wants to push this bill through the House of Commons even though it has failed to properly consult with fishermen, the very people who depend on the fishery for their livelihood. The fishery is a common resource property and as such, Canadians from coast to coast deserve to be heard on this new legislation.

The P.E.I. Fishermen's Association supports the Liberal motion to hoist Bill C-45 so that the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans can hold proper hearings across the country.

Fishermen want to be heard. I ask the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans to support the Liberal motion so that Bill C-45 can receive proper hearing from the industry and the public itself. Why does the government want to shove this bill down the throats of fishermen without proper consultation?

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I think it was my turn anyway.

As Mr. Pasaribu has mentioned, we have a number of different statutes that affect our fisheries industries and resources. The primary one is our Fisheries Act. It was passed in 1868, 139 years ago. It's the legislation we're trying to modernize through Bill C-45, which was mentioned. Bill C-45 will repeal and replace the old Fisheries Act with a new Fisheries Act. The Fisheries Act that we have has worked quite well over the time we've been a country, although it needs some changes,

I think we could probably have a debate in this group on how effective our enforcement has been. We try hard to enforce the laws and regulations that govern fisheries. I think in general we do a fairly good job, but enforcement costs money. We need fisheries officers, habitat inspectors, and all of those. We probably don't have as much money as we wish we had to be able to enforce it properly.

That's part of the answer.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

I would like to say to our committee group, before I go to Mr. Kamp, that we will, through the chair and the clerk and our researcher, send you a copy of the Fisheries Act, Bill C-45, and the deliberations that will be going on around the act. We will also send you a letter outlining oceans-related legislation from Canada.

“Oceans-related” doesn't translate well.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I apologize. I guess I should have been talking more about what we do instead of what you do. But there are some examples from us that I wouldn't take, if I were you.

We didn't really handle the cod fishery too well here. Everybody likes to blame everybody else.

I think that when you look at the regulations, as the chairman rightly said, we have different departments watching different areas that are involved. For example, with the lobster fishery in our area--and it's a rich fishery for the fishermen--there are rules in place. We have Department of Fisheries and Oceans officials who patrol the area. If you were caught taking in something illegal, you probably would lose two weeks of fishing, which would be thousands and thousands of dollars. This is the kind of thing we do in order to try to preserve our stocks.

If you're interested, and I guess you are, it would be interesting to watch. We have Bill C-45 coming before the House of Commons. That is the new Fisheries Act. Everybody is not in 100% agreement with everything in that, and that will be an interesting display of democracy taking its role through Canada. And I think it's a good thing too; the government probably needs quite a bit of help getting this legislation straightened out. But that's what this committee is here for.

When we put new legislation in place, this is where it comes first, or supposedly does. Often what happens is that the legislation is introduced, and then, perhaps before second reading, the government allows it to come to committee to give the committee time to go across the country and talk to fisher people from coast to coast and to be sure that now they have the input. Sometimes it's after second reading, and that can be a difference of opinion. That's done so that you have the input of the industry.

Everybody is on the same wavelength in this country. We have to protect our resources.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, everyone in the House will know that nobody has stood up more for the fisheries industry in Newfoundland and Labrador than our current fisheries minister, certainly more than anything that was done in the last 13 years.

If the Liberals really want to support the fishery in Newfoundland, they ought to get behind Bill C-45 and come up with a new Fisheries Act that actually modernizes and supports the industry there.

Aboriginal Affairs

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, in three separate cases the Supreme Court of Canada was clear that the federal government had a duty to consult with first nations. Despite these rulings, the government has refused to conduct meaningful consultations. It imposes arbitrary deadlines that prevent real discussions from taking place: Bill C-2; Bill C-44; Bill C-45; nationhood; and now only seven days for consensus building on matrimonial real property.

Why does the government insist on taking such a father knows best attitude?

Opposition Motion—Aerospace Industry

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to speak to the motion. I want to focus on a particular aspect of the motion.

At the end of the motion, it calls on the government “to provide fair regional distribution of economic spin-offs for all future contracts”. That part of the motion is particularly important because I would argue that is what we are looking for from coast to coast to coast, opportunities to have meaningful economic development.

Canada is a resource rich country. We are a country that has a skilled workforce. We are a country that has the know-how to actively participate in a domestic economy and the international economy, yet we are seeing a shedding of manufacturing jobs. In the last couple of weeks we have heard announcements that there are going to be further layoffs in the auto sector in Ontario.

The New Democrats have been calling for national strategies in some key sectors. We have called for a national strategy in forestry. We have called for a national strategy for our shipbuilding industry. We have called for a national strategy for our auto sector. There are other sectors. For example, the garment sector is a big factor in Winnipeg. The member for Winnipeg Centre has been a tireless advocate for the garment workers in Winnipeg and in other parts of the country.

We need a mechanism that looks at economic development and that makes sure that our communities take advantage of the local resources and that we see spinoffs in all of our communities that create meaningful well-paying jobs.

A report that was issued today talked about the prosperity gap. It said that a significant number of people are falling behind. It is very disquieting to see those numbers in this day and age. We are in an economy that is supposed to be so hot, yet there are people who are losing ground. People are working more hours and their buying power just is not there.

There are some key principles regarding community economic development, there are some key principles. In the book Toward Sustainable Communities: Resources for Citizens and their Governments, Professor Mark Roseland from Simon Fraser University talks about the importance of local control over local resources. He indicates that community economic development is defined as:

--a process by which communities can initiate and generate their own solutions to their common economic problems and thereby build long-term community capacity and foster the integration of economic, social, and environmental objectives.

He states:

The main goal of most CED [community economic development] initiatives is individual and community self-reliance through collaborative action, capacity building, and returning control of business enterprises, capital, labor, and other resources from the global marketplace to communities.

He also states:

Local self-reliance does not mean isolation. It means diversification of local economies to support local needs, encourage cohesiveness, reduce waste and enable more sustainable trade practices with other communities.

Today we are speaking specifically about the aerospace industry in Quebec, but I would say that underlying this is the need for communities and provinces from coast to coast to coast to have that kind of self-reliance that is so important for the healthy functioning of our communities. There is a need to take into account the social aspects of our communities, the environmental aspects of our communities, and the economic aspects of our communities. Many people refer to this as the triple bottom line. Many of the decisions that we make do not take into account that triple bottom line.

One very important aspect of the aerospace industry is search and rescue. In British Columbia and many other parts of Canada, the fixed wing search and rescue aircraft are a very important part of how communities function. This is certainly something the Conservative Party has not addressed. There are 40-year-old Buffalo aircraft doing search and rescue. When the issue was brought up with the minister at the defence committee, he said that the process has stalled.

The Government of Canada has been proposing new fixed wing search and rescue planes for years but the last government failed to deliver on this and certainly the current government has failed to deliver on this.

I cannot imagine that members of the House from all parties would not support new search and rescue aircraft. My colleague, the member for New Westminster—Coquitlam, proposed Motion No. 283 in order to allow the House to express its support for new search and rescue planes. The Conservatives have not made search and rescue aircraft or more sovereignty a goal of their procurement strategy. The Conservatives have focused on C-17s which are American built and will be partly American maintained.

In the context of economic development and good paying jobs in Canada, surely we would want to invest in new search and rescue aircraft and we would want to ensure they are built and maintained in Canada.

One of the things many folks talk about is maintaining our economic sovereignty. It is important that when we are talking about economic sovereignty that we are making those strategic investments in Canadian jobs and Canadian industries.

Over the years, many of us have talked about the importance of local economic development. I think many of us can probably cite very successful initiatives in their own ridings. I know the members of the Bloc are passionate advocates of successful economic development in their own ridings.

I want to highlight a particular issue. It is rather timely because we have been talking about Bill C-45, which is a new Fisheries Act. When we talk about economic development, we know that sports and recreational fishers are an important contributor to the British Columbia economy. We have many successful economic initiatives in British Columbia and I will highlight one that is in Nanaimo. St. Jean's Salmon Fish Cannery in Nanaimo made a commitment to the sport fishing industry 40 years ago. I will read from its website where it states:

Armand St. Jean had created a cottage industry smoking oysters and canning clam chowder in the back of his garage. He impressed some American sports fishermen, who suggested he turn his hand to canning salmon. The idea made sense to St. Jean, so he fixed up an old boathouse and got to work. The rest is history. Gerard St. Jean joined his father, constructed a new building to house the expanding business, weathered the economic storm of the early 80's and saw the business expand in '86.

From canning salmon, oysters, and chowder, St. Jean's Cannery & Smokehouse expanded to include products like solid white albacore tuna canned without water or oil, canned wild West Coast chanterelle mushrooms, seafood pates, oyster soup and whole butter clams.

The website goes on to read:

What started as a backyard canning operation in 1961 is now virtually the only full-service processor catering to sport fishermen in British Columbia.

That is an example of successful economic development. When we are talking about the spin-offs in industry or in aerospace, there is something economists refer to as the multiplier effect. For every direct job, whether it be in aerospace, the garment industry, shipbuilding or in forestry, two to seven jobs are often spun off. It depends on the industry as to how many jobs will be spun off but I would argue that local economic development initiatives support other suppliers, the transportation sector and their important initiatives in our communities to keep our communities healthy and vibrant.

I want to turn briefly to softwood lumber. We certainly have had some fundamental differences with the Bloc on the softwood lumber agreement. In British Columbia we have talked about the importance of the softwood lumber agreement around economic spin-offs and around regional importance in our communities.

In a press release entitled, “Softwood Lumber Agreement spells trouble for jobs in BC's forest-dependent communities”, the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives stated the following:

The new Canada-US Softwood Lumber Agreement, if it is ratified by the Canadian Parliament--

--and we know it was--

--spells bad news for BC's forest-dependent communities. According to a new Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives report, the deal with dampen efforts to move BC's forest industry up the value chain, and will lead to more raw log exports, both of which mean fewer jobs in BC's forest sector.

When we talk about aerospace, the concern people have is not only for the direct jobs but for the spinoff jobs that are so vital. We know the multiplier effect is critical in terms of economic diversity in our communities.

In the same press release, it further states:

The report, Softwood Sellout: How BC Bowed to the US and Got Saddled with the Softwood Lumber Agreement, shows how the BC government made a concerted effort beginning nearly five years ago to fundamentally restructure forest policies in a failed attempt to appease the US softwood lumber lobby. The changes included:

scrapping laws that obligated forest companies to operate certain mills,

scrapping public timber auctions specifically for value-added manufacturers,

scrapping auctions of timber to small, independent mills, and

scrapping prohibitions on wood waste on logging sites.

“These changes and more were made to address US 'perceptions' that BC subsidized its forest industry”, Parfitt says. “None of them were in the public interest. All of them hurt BC communities. Value-added manufacturing is down, raw log exports are up and massive amounts of usable logs are being left on the ground instead of being processed.”

In Nanaimo—Cowichan, we are seeing the impacts of those kinds of policies. Sawmills have closed and pulp and paper mills are in desperate straits because of a lack of access to fibre supply. We are only beginning to see the impacts of this agreement.

We are talking about economic development. We are talking about regional disparities. In British Columbia we are certainly seeing some regional disparities.

The “Softwood Sellout” report made a number of recommendations. I will not be able to cover all of them in the brief time available to me, but one of the things that happened in British Columbia was an end to milling requirements. This was called the impertinency clause and it is particularly important because the impertinency clause talked about the fact that in B.C., a province rich in trees, 95% of the land is crown land. It is owned by the people of B.C. and there was a social contract.

That social contract meant that the trees that were cut down in British Columbia would be milled close to home. It is such an important element. This is a resource owned by the citizens in British Columbia. The citizens of British Columbia absolutely own those trees and therefore the direct benefits should come to our communities.

Instead, what we have seen is a disassembling of that social contract. Raw log exports have increased and the trees are being shipped south of the border to be processed.

Fisheries Act, 2007

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

I am sorry but time has expired. When Bill C-45 comes back for debate in the House, there will be five minutes left for questions and comments with regard to the speech made by the member for Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine.

It being 1:30 p.m., the House will now proceed to the consideration of private members' business as listed on today's order paper.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, these may be fascinating conversations and I might eventually want to join in, but right now I would like the hon. members to be able to hear me and, and some members having louder voices than others, this can be disruptive.

Anyway, these people, these honest citizens, namely the crab fishers and their representatives, say and write that they have not been consulted. Should we believe them? I think so. They have not only said so; they have put it in writing. It is a very important issue, one that was raised as one of the main criticisms in our discussions with department officials about Bill C-45. If the consultations have not been carried out by the department, I pledge—hopefully the members of the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans will be in agreement—that we will carry out these consultations. It is extremely important that the people in the fishing community, who are directly or indirectly affected by fisheries management, have the right and opportunity to express their opinions on every aspect of this bill.

It is true that the bill is coming to us 137 or 138 years after the existing law was enacted, because it has never been amended in all those years. Also, we have to say that, sadly, the fishing industry is grappling with a host of problems. I can only speak of Quebec, but in Quebec the fishing industry is in crisis, be it in the shrimp,crab, lobster or groundfish sectors, or the cod sector, of course. Another crisis nowadays is the one pitting those who would abolishing seal hunting against the seal hunters.

There is certainly no shortage of crises. When I say that there are crises galore, I am speaking only of Quebec. If I were to talk about the Atlantic provinces, there would be more crises and the problem would only grow bigger. A little further, if I turned to the Great Lakes, I would be talking about another crisis: invasive species. I could also talk about western Canada, where the issue of salmon fisheries in the Fraser River was under consideration for several months. That is yet another crisis.

The bill has arrived in Parliament but it is incomplete from several standpoints. The legislation in question does need to be brought up to date; it was enacted 138 years ago and it needs more teeth. Any offence committed in the fisheries ends up in criminal court. That is the reality: you go to court no matter how minor the offence. This can result in delays and problems. Thus, we can see the creation of an administrative tribunal as a positive step.

Yet, we must be vigilant and have a critical eye and, for this reason, the consultation period is extremely important. I think it is quite proper for people to have the time to review the bill in question in order to express an informed opinion. This would allow parliamentarians to conduct a debate, as we are doing today, and to work in the interests of those involved in the industry once the bill is referred to the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.

Some people believe that the fisheries are not a big deal and that the issue only comes up on Fridays. I mention Fridays because there used to be a tradition that you ate fish only on that day.

In Canada, this is a $4 billion industry that generates a great deal of revenue in each community. I would like to speak about the Quebec fisheries and everything happening east of Quebec City. But I will speak primarily about the region I am most familiar with, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine

Let us try to figure out the significance of “the fisheries”. The population of the Magdalen Islands is 14,000. In my opinion, we have to respect these people. Of these 14,000 people, 6 out of 10 depend on the fishing industry. It is that clear cut.

In the Gaspé, a little more than 3 people in 10 have fishery related employment. In Quebec, the landed value of the fishery is $150 million. This may not seem like much compared to other figures, but when you consider the overall figures, you realize that thousands of people depend on them.

I am talking just about the landed value of the fish. For regions like ours, it is extremely important. That is why we must look at the fishery from this angle.

In my opinion, it would be proper and respectful toward this population, the fishers, the industries, the people who work in the plants in question and the communities to take the necessary time to look at how changes are made. It is true that there are a number of changes in the bill.

One of the changes that absolutely needs to be made involves the discretionary power of the minister. I have nothing against the person in that position. That is not what I am saying.

Nonetheless, giving the minister full discretionary power over managing the fisheries does not allow us, in my opinion, to go further. Unfortunately, over the past year some questionable decisions, to say the least, have been made. We have spoken out against these decisions.

They say there is a crisis in the shrimp fishery. There are too many shrimp on the market: we are being “invaded” and “attacked” by farmed shrimp. However, the current minister announced an increase in the fished shrimp quota in the gulf areas. But who is benefiting? The fishers in Newfoundland and Labrador are benefiting.

I have nothing against Newfoundland and Labrador. I have no problem with this. However, as far as management is concerned, I do not get the impression that increasing quotas to benefit a certain group is responsible resource management when shrimp ... when the shrimp industry is in crisis. It is not the shrimp that are in crisis. On the contrary, Nordic shrimp are delicious.

Magdalen Island lobster fishers also experienced this adversarial situation with Prince Edward Island lobster fishers.

There again, an arbitrary decision was made by the ministers, supposedly based on a report from a mediator. This mediator was rejected by one of the parties, the Magdalen Islands.

So much for efficiency and effectiveness. That is what the people of the Magdalen Islands said. Anyone who thinks I am wrong about what the people of the Magdalen Islands said should take the time to go and see the islanders.

I repeat: the fishers from the Magdalen Islands said that consultations were held and a mediator was appointed without their consent. I believe what the fishers from the Magdalen Islands say. Anyone who claims otherwise is calling the fishers liars. That is a fact.

Parliamentarians must act responsibly. The Bloc Québécois is committed to doing so, and I am as well. We did so recently when the revocation of legislation concerning the Great Lakes fisheries was being reviewed. In my opinion, the Bloc Québécois acted responsibly on this issue.

Strangely, during the process, it was noticed that the Conservatives, who had introduced the section in question, had voted against that section by mistake. Mistakes happen, certainly. If it had not been for the Bloc Québécois, the whole thing might have fallen through.

The people of the Great Lakes might have found themselves in a legal vacuum. That is why I am calling on all members to work together. At the same time, I am well aware that we will have a great deal of work to do. We will do it responsibly and thoroughly. When the committee receives Bill C-45, if the House so desires, the committee will have to proceed thoroughly and responsibly, taking the time not only to consult, but also to make any amendments it considers appropriate.

It is not just a matter of time, it is also a matter of respect for the industry, fishers, communities and everyone directly or indirectly involved in the fisheries. A number of amendments will be made to this bill, which I feel is a work in progress. I believe that some parts will have to be removed and that we will have to agree on some others. I cannot agree with one of the objectives of Bill C-45, which provides that the department can use the resource to fund its research work. What have we come to? I understand that the resource is public, but it should benefit the people who fish it and live off it. A bill should not make it possible to do indirectly something that we would not want to see done directly: using this money to fund research. If, after 138 years, this is the sort of change that is being proposed, we will have to go back to the drawing board. We will defend this principle tooth and nail. There are others we could elaborate on.

I just want to summarize what I was saying, but I know that I will have an opportunity to come back to this over the course of the debate and possibly in committee if the House chooses that route.

Bill C-45 enhances the co-management of the fish populations by giving fishers more power and more responsibility. It also creates a new tribunal that will have the authority to punish poachers by imposing penalties ranging from fines to revoking fishing permits.

I want to remind hon. members that under the current system, even the most insignificant offences are referred to a criminal court, which can involve a lengthy and costly process.

In addition to having at its disposal an entire arsenal of penalties, this tribunal will consist of individuals who have a good understanding of the fishing industry, and vigilance will be the order of the day.

The bill finally recognizes that some legislation in Quebec and the provinces is equal or superior, and it thereby cuts down on duplication. On that matter, the Bloc Québécois, as a sovereignist party, has another objective. As an aside, if there ever were a sector of the economy in Quebec that could attest to the fact that if we were sovereign we would be better off, it would certainly be the fishery sector.

I know that some people do not necessarily agree with me, but that is the broad consensus in Quebec. We will eventually see this, during a referendum. The fisheries file perfectly illustrates why Quebec needs sovereignty. And, as they say, the sceptics will be confounded.

However, as for the negative points of the bill, obviously, the issue of consultation has been mentioned. In a way, the proposed amendment is relatively interesting. I know that the committee will also work very hard, and respectfully, but above all, very thoroughly. That is how it is done.

I know that the current minister was on the committee. Now he is the minister, wearing a new hat, one might say. I know he worked actively within the committee, just as I did. We face several challenges. Of course, the various crises bear witness to that.

I must also mention that, recently, for example, the sale of licences from one province to the next created the following risk: a crab boat was sold to a P.E.I. business, without a history of a crab quota, meaning that 25 jobs per boat left our region, not including the jobs linked to the plant. This is dangerous. This is what it means for jobs on the boats and in the plants. This is dangerous.

Does the bill address the situation? I do not think so. Should it address the situation? In my opinion, yes, absolutely. Of course, there was a reaction. We found a way to say that perhaps the licence could be attributed to P.E.I. or elsewhere, but not the attached quota. That may be a way to slow things down, but it will not completely prevent such situations.

I will have the opportunity to come back to this over the course of the next few hours or, if necessary, in the weeks and months to come, with the ultimate goal of improving the lives of these people who depend on this industry and who—

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, things should be a lot clearer as to what we are supposed to be doing because, now, there will not be a question and comment period with regard to the speech that the member just made.

I have no problem with having to make my speech now since I cannot question the Chair's decisions.

Regarding Bill C-45, first I would like to state two facts that could be considered anecdotal. What are we eating today in the lobby? Cod fillets. The question is this: where does that cod come from? Where was it harvested? Do you know that the answer to that question is likely to be in Russia or in Asia? That is also part of the situation. In this sense, Bill C-45 is far from addressing that particular problem.

The second element I would like to point out is simply that, in my opinion, Bill C-45 is an unfinished piece of work. We will have an opportunity to talk about this during the debate and also in committee. We will support the principle of the bill because it is indeed an unfinished piece of work. In this sense, I will say right now, as I mentioned earlier, that there is a serious problem with regard to consultation.

It is with great interest that I heard the proposal made by my Liberal colleague, who is a member of the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans, not to defer, but to suspend the work for six months, thus allowing for a much wider consultation than the one we have now. The evidence is found in the letter that I will read once again, perhaps a little more quietly. I want to take this opportunity because several parliamentarians and, particularly, I suppose, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, are here, since it is his bill that we are discussing today. I will send a copy. The minister has received a copy. This is about a statement made by the parliamentary secretary in relation to Bill C-45.

Having looked at this statement concerning Bill C-45 that was sent to us ... at the very last minute, even though it was known that we, the fishers, would not have time to read it and particularly to understand some wording that appears to have a double meaning, we wish to inform you that we have not been consulted at any time about any change that would affect the new fisheries act and that we categorically oppose any changes that might be made without our being able to discuss them with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

This letter is signed by Marc Couture, president of the Gaspé crab fishers association, and Daniel Desbois, president of the Bay crab fishers association.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am rising on a point of order. I do not know what I can say on this issue, but I would invite you to hear this.

I understand that an amendment has been moved. We can discuss it if the Speaker so desires. Once the amendment is disposed of, we normally expect to have a period of questions and comments following the Liberal member's speech. At the end of the normal 10-minute period of questions and comments, it is then my turn to speak to Bill C-45.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am rising on a point of order. I do not mind speaking, as you are asking, but I would like to understand where we are at. I appreciate that an amendment was moved, but what is going on? Is the amendment in order or not? I would really like to speak to Bill C-45, but I would like to better understand where we are at.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I thank the member for Random—Burin—St. George's for clarifying that. He was also a member at the time.

If it says in clause 36 that the minister may issue releases for aquaculture purposes, where is the rest? If the minister truly believes, as he did in 2003, about the special rules and regulations around aquaculture and its effect on the environment and all fisheries and all stakeholders, why is it not addressed here? Again, that is another question.

Clause 37 refers to the allocation the minister can make in fisheries “not managed by a province”. The question here goes back to the provisions under clauses 7 and 23 with respect to delegation and whether it is possible that the federal minister, in the wake of agreements or a delegation, would actually have very few fisheries over which to have authority to allocate. Again, the government may have a good answer for that, but yet not vetted through the right people, the stakeholders, and not translated fully.

The provisions in the bill that deal with the tribunal is one that is extremely plausible. We find, for the most part, with a few minor changes, they are certainly acceptable to our country. Unfortunately, what we have here is an omnibus bill that covers everything. Clauses 130 to 133 concern the alternative measures to judicial proceedings. The only concern here is to ensure that those who violate the provisions of the act of a serious nature are dealt with in a manner befitting the degree of frequency of violations. Again, we go back to the tribunal aspect of this act, which we feel is a positive one, but yet the first part of the act with co-management is a major issue.

I would like to bring up a few concerns. The parliamentary secretary in his opening speech said that they consulted a lot of people, that they had a lot people give them feedback. Yesterday the minister said that it was mostly positive. I beg to differ. Herein lies some of the negative stuff. It is not only negative, but it raises questions as well. Everybody wants to know.

For example, Bill C-45 would change all that with clauses 43 to 46. This comes from the Fisherman Life submission by Christopher Harvey who has said that on the fisheries management agreements with any organization, which in his view represents a class of persons, the minister is left with an unfettered discretion. He has problems as well with clause 37, making allocations among any groups.

A letter to me stated, “We also have recently read an article in the Peninsula News about the Liberal caucus position on Bill C-45, and it mentioned you had concerns”.

The stakeholders across Canada are voicing disapproval with the bill.

The common theme here is lack of consultation. After second reading to go to committee is not the proper way to management. Therefore, I move the following amendment:

That the motion be amended by deleting all the words after the word 'That' and by substituting the following therefor:

Bill C-45, An Act respecting the sustainable development of Canada's sea coast and inland fisheries, be not now read a second time but that it be read a second time this day six months hence.

Let the stakeholders have their say.