Bill C-28 (Historical)

An Act to amend the Cree-Naskapi (of Quebec) Act

This enactment amends the Cree-Naskapi (of Quebec) Act, in respect of Cree bands and Category IA land,
(a) to provide the Cree Regional Authority with additional responsibilities and powers, including by-law making powers; and
(b) to recognize the Crees of Oujé-Bougoumou as a separate band and a local government under that Act.

Cree-Naskapi (of Quebec) Act

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague from British Columbia represents the people in Newton—North Delta so well.

Yes, we have often had difficulty with getting government legislation through the House. I think that is about different visions of our country and where we want to go.

On this particular piece of legislation, the fact that it was developed with the aboriginal people themselves, in this case the Cree of Eeyou Istchee, makes it so much more palatable, so much easier to support. I believe we should also recognize that it is the fulfillment of a commitment that the Government of Canada has already made and this helps build trust and understanding among aboriginal and non-aboriginal people. Only with that trust and understanding can we really build new relationships and move to a self-government that is recognized by other people in Canada and indeed throughout the world.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Mr. Speaker, there is a significant financial component associated with the new relationship agreement. Could the member expand on how this will benefit the Cree?

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Mr. Speaker, I am always hesitant to say how it is going to benefit someone. It is up to the people themselves how they prioritize and utilize those funds, basically how they spend the money. It is what most people would consider to be a substantial sum. It is hard to put a value on land, a value on tradition. We can think of that Cree saying that when the trees have been cut, the fish have been taken and the rivers have been poisoned, money cannot be eaten. However, I would leave it to the Cree themselves in that they are the best judges of what is important to them, of what their community priorities are, where they have to put the dollars.

It will be significantly important and it will benefit them personally. How that happens is going to be up to the Cree people themselves. That really is a part of self-government. If it is going to be real self-government, we do not tell people what to do, we let them exercise it.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, first, I would appreciate it if you could let me know when I have one minute left, because I think I could go on for at least 25 to 30 minutes. Since I only have 20 minutes, I will try to be brief.

I want to salute the students of the Polyvalente Natagan, located in the community of Barraute, in my riding. They are here today as part of a visit to Parliament Hill. I salute them. I am going to give them a brief geography and history lesson, and I hope that it will be part of their June exam.

We are witnessing a historic moment here, and I think it is important to mention it. I would like to pay tribute to the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, who worked on this project, and also to Matthew Mukash, Grand Chief and President of the Grand Council of the Crees, to Ashley Iserhoff, Deputy Grand Chief and Vice-President of the Grand Council of the Crees, to Roderick Pachano, authorized representative of the Chisasibi Cree nation, to Losty Mamianskum of the Whapmagoostui First Nation, to Rodney Mark of the Wemindji Cree nation, to Lloyd Mayappo of the Eastmain band, to Steve Diamond of the Waskaganish Cree nation, to Josie Jimiken of the Nemaska Cree nation, to John Kitchen of the Waswanipi band, to John Longchap of the Mistissini Cree nation, and to Louise Wapachee, authorized representative of the Oujé-Bougoumou Eenuch Association.

These people represent hundreds of Cree who signed a critically important agreement that led to Bill C-28. In this agreement, which I have here, it is clearly mentioned that a bill—and that is Bill C-28—would propose amendments to the government and to the Parliament of Canada, within 18 months of the coming into force of the agreement, which was signed on February 21, 2008.

It is now very important, not to say urgent, that we respect the signatures that appear on this document. This is why the government had to introduce a bill in this House to ratify the agreement. I am telling the students that this agreement must be ratified. It covers a huge territory in northern Quebec, north of the Abitibi-Témiscamingue region, on the edge of James Bay. That territory surrounds all the hydroelectric dams that Quebec wants to build. Therefore, it is a very important agreement that will help the Cree fulfill their desire to achieve self-governance.

It is important that I indicate that the Bloc Québécois will support this very important bill. The Bloc Québécois recognizes the right of the aboriginal peoples to self-government. This agreement gives effect to that right for the Cree nation. Obviously the bill does not solve all the problems. I think many of us would quickly vote for a bill if that were all it took to end poverty, alcoholism, diabetes and serious crime in isolated communities. Unfortunately, things do not always work as we would like. Some of the more frequent problems in aboriginal communities are inherent in living in what we call remote communities. It is important that we realize, that we sit down and negotiate with the aboriginal people, because one day we will have to understand that we are living on aboriginal land. Even this Parliament, in Ottawa, is on aboriginal land, Algonquin land.

We will have to understand that one day, and agree to negotiate and share this land with the aboriginal communities.

The Bloc Québécois recognizes that the aboriginal peoples are distinct peoples with a right to their cultures, their languages, and their customs and traditions, and with the right to determine for themselves how to develop their own identity.

This bill is a step in that direction, in my opinion, and that is why I have recommended that my colleagues in the Bloc Québécois not only support the bill, but do so as quickly as possible, to expedite the implementation of the bill. I therefore hope that our Senate colleagues will give it speedy consideration so that Royal Assent can be given before the June recess.

Madam Speaker, before you took the chair, I said I would like you inform me when I have one minute left, or else I would have enough to say to fill at least half an hour or three quarters of an hour. I am not sure that some of my colleagues would appreciate it if I took part of the afternoon to talk about the importance of this bill, which has a direct impact on the aboriginal people in a region that certainly needs the agreements that will result from these bills.

It is rare for us to be able to say that the government has acted in concert with the Cree communities. In this case, it must be said. In fact, unstinting work has been done by the Grand Council of the Crees, but I also think that there was work done jointly, not only with the Cree communities but also with the government of Quebec and with the communities concerned. What we must not forget is that this affects the Naskapi communities. In Kawawachikamach—and I am eager to see how that will be translated and typed—there is a Naskapi community on the border of Labrador and it is affected by this agreement.

I asked the Minister the question and I got the answer I expected. This kind of agreement will have to be made for the Naskapi nation because it is a question of the development and survival of the aboriginal nations, and in particular Kawawachikamach, a very isolated community north of Schefferville. I would add, for my students who will have to look on a map to see where that community is, it is in the extreme eastern point of Quebec where it meets Labrador. The Kawawachikamach nation is a very important part of this.

Let us remember that this bill flows from the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement, which was signed in the 1970s. The Government of Quebec had made hydroelectricity a priority. As a result, it was necessary to divert rivers and construct hydroelectric dams. That produced the power stations known as La Grande-1, La Grande-2, La Grande-3, and now La Grande-4. They were influencing rivers that affected James Bay.

The problem was that nobody spoke with the Cree, who had been living on that land for thousands of years. There were lawsuits, injunctions and many legal proceedings before the government stopped and admitted that they were right in the middle of Cree ancestral land. They were obliged to sit down with them before planning to develop those hydroelectric dams. That led to the James Bay agreement that is now know as the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement.

Nine years after that agreement was signed, the first settlement agreements were reached. The Government of Quebec was concerned because of the hydroelectric basins; but the federal government was also directly involved because of the ancestral lands and the land claims of the Cree people.

Bill C-28 is the result of the agreement between the Government of Canada and the Cree of Eeyou Istchee that was signed February 21, 2008. The terms of the agreement call for it to be implemented within 18 months, and, if I count properly, those 18 months have almost expired. That is one reason why the Bloc Québécois will support this bill without reservation and will do its utmost to see that it is adopted at all stages.

I want to explain how that process works for the benefit of my students. Once the bill has been adopted here, it must be sent to a committee for review. We agreed this morning at the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development that this bill would be reviewed and adopted quickly so that it will come into force before the end of the session, or the beginning of September, at the latest. That is absolutely necessary. Large sums of money are at stake.

I can respond immediately to a question from my colleague from Churchill about the amounts involved. One billion and 50 million dollars will be distributed over a number of years. The parties agree that within 30 days of royal assent, $100 million will be distributed to the Cree communities involved. That is why the bill must be adopted. Within 30 days of royal assent, the government must pay out another $200 million, so that a total of $300 million will be distributed very quickly after royal assent. One may think that is a lot of money for the Cree, but keep in mind the development of the Oujé-Bougoumou community alone cost $110 million.

A huge number of things remain to be done, and major issues need to be settled. I repeat, money will not solve the problems of alcoholism, health issues, school drop-outs and crime in the communities. Money will probably help isolated communities to take control of their situation, provide broader access to water, get their schools working better. Aboriginal people absolutely must take over control of their lives. This funding will be used to train tomorrow's leaders of the Cree community. There are some leaders now but more are needed. This money will go to help the communities.

The communities are experiencing a phenomenal growth spurt. Their annual birth rate ranges between 3% and 5%. In our fine communities, everything is great. We get the necessary services, garbage is picked up, drinking water is available at the turn of a tap. In aboriginal communities, water pipes have to be installed, housing has to be put up on land that is very often not that easy to build on. The funds will go to help the Cree communities to take charge of their future.

Another important point: this bill, which confirms the agreement, will allow the Cree community to enact bylaws in areas that affect it directly, public health and safety, protection of the environment and prevention of pollution, as well as all other sectors that are administrative in character such as the administration of justice and economic and social development. Last year, the Cree-Naskapi Commission, which administers and oversees agreements between the Cree and the Naskapi, made recommendations to us and Bill C-28, which I hope to see passed promptly by this House, will implement those recommendations.

There is also an agreement on what is termed the land. There are three categories, and I know this is highly complex, but there are Category I, II and lll lands. I could make a comparison with chicken grading. Those in what would correspond to Grade A, which is Category I, are the best, the closest to them. Then comes Category II, which are a bit further away, under provincial jurisdiction, for instance, and then Category III is Quebec crown land.

I have shortened my remarks so that I would not take up several more minutes of the members’ time. What I want to say is that an agreement has finally been reached with the Cree. We now have an Agreement Concerning a New Relationship between the Government of Canada and the Cree of Eeyou Istchee and can proceed with the definition of the land categories. This is very important and even the very heart of the agreement. There is not just money involved. We will finally know that this parcel of land is category I and that one is category II.

I will provide an example. We have even agreed that category II lands will cover an area of 155,000 square kilometres. These lands will be administered by the Cree and the regional authority. This is Quebec land too and authority is shared. We still have to determine who can hunt and fish, identify ZECs or controlled harvesting zones, agree on how ZECs will be organized, who will have fishing licences, and when they can go fishing. These are the category II lands.

Category I lands are under federal jurisdiction and they too are also in part under Cree jurisdiction.

The Cree and Naskapi have exclusive rights—and this gets important—over Category III lands. These lands cover 911,000 square kilometres, which is hard to imagine but let us try. My riding is 152,000 square kilometres, so these lands are five or six times as large. This is a huge area over which the Cree and Naskapi—agreements still have to be signed but talking for the moment about the Cree—will have exclusive rights and where their communities will participate in the administration and development of the land.

In the category IA lands—because there are I, IA, IB lands—it gets very complex and I would therefore like to congratulate everyone who worked on this project for so long, both personally and on behalf of the Bloc Québécois. Speaking of land categories, negotiations are currently being held with the Innu and the same debates will arise.

It is the same with the Attikamek south of Lake St. John. The entire reservation stretching toward Lake St. John and even a bit beyond is Attikamek territory. Beside it are Innu lands. All these divisions and definitions of lands will be very important and might be used—as time will tell—with the communities and grand councils, such as the Grand Council of the Cree. The Grand Council of the Attikamek and the Grand Council of the Innu will also be affected.

If I have one wish, it is that some day—and I am sending my Algonquin friends a message here—the Anishnabe will also form a single Grand Council of the Algonquin Anishnabe so that they can pool their knowledge and efforts and ensure that the government stops—I am weighing my words—exploiting them and confining them to small areas of land. They are not even consulted in connection with hunting, fishing or mining.

Since you are indicating that I only have two minutes left, I will go a little faster. I am going to conclude by saying that this is a very important bill which is the result of a good consultation process—and I mean that—between the federal government and the nine Cree nations. I do not think I am wrong when I say that, based on the information that I received, the 10 nations—because a tenth one will soon be recognized—are very pleased with this agreement, and they hope that it will be conveyed and adopted through Bill C-28, at the earliest opportunity.

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and Federal Interlocutor for Métis and Non-Status Indians]

Madam Speaker, this is close to home for the member, so he knows a great deal about it and is able to give us a good history lesson on how he got here and any experience in Quebec related to the relationship between aboriginal people and different levels of government. I thought all of it was very useful.

I would like him to comment on this. It has been my experience that a strong and vibrant aboriginal government is a good news story for everyone. It is good for the province. It is good for the federal government and for the aboriginal people that it represents. We are getting that with this agreement.

We are strengthening further the already good work that the Cree of Eeyou Istchee, Naskapi and others have put together over the years and have been able to formalize, in increasingly detailed ways, to ensure they represent their people strongly when it comes to resource development and revenue sharing, relationships, which are all described in the “New Relationship” document, and much more. Everything from the day to day issues, such as fire protection to important things like environmental standards, all become enhanced when there is a good, strong government, and this will move us to that quickly.

He had mentioned something in passing, and I know it is an issue about which he is concerned, and that is how a strong, regional government of the nature we talk about for the Cree of Eeyou Istchee could be useful to the Algonquin people.

He is right. There is a message in there that it not only strengthens the hands of the Algonquin people, but by strengthening that opportunity, it provides other opportunities for other levels of government to engage more formally to get good things done for people at the community level.

Could he talk a bit about why he thinks this kind of a regional government, and eventually the Cree nation government, allows for not only good economic opportunity, but good social development in those regions and how it might apply in other regions with willing partners?

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Madam Speaker, usually, we are the ones who put questions to the minister, who then thanks us. This time, I am the one who is thanking the minister for his question.

We are still working very hard on this issue. For the benefit of my colleagues, I should point out that this issue—and specifically Bill C-28—applies directly to my colleague's riding, namely Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou. I am very involved in this issue, which is very important and which I have been following very closely for a number of years. Even when I was working as a lawyer, I would follow these negotiations with great interest.

I will respond to the minister by saying that he is absolutely right. There should be such aboriginal governments in place. Since my reelection in 2006, I have been the Bloc Québécois critic on aboriginal issues. The main problem that comes to my mind is the lack of continuity. At some point, we will have to sit down and ask ourselves whether aboriginal community chiefs should be elected for a period of four years, instead of two years. We are giving this some thought. Personally, I am thinking about this issue. There is a lack of continuity, and that is the first problem.

The second problem is that it is impossible to have seven Algonquin communities that barely speak to each other, if at all. Yet, they have the same problems. I know the Algonquin nation well, because almost all of its members live in my riding, with the exception of the members of the Kitigan Zibi community, located in Maniwaki, in the riding of Pontiac, which is represented by the Minister of Foreign Affairs. However, these ridings are all adjacent.

So, why not sit together, make the same claims, and perhaps meet with the government to negotiate a similar agreement? After all, it is not a bad agreement. It is true that some communities may have a bit of a problem with that. In order to get along, it is important to sit down and talk about the same claims. Currently, if a mining company wants to conduct mining exploration in the Abitibi-Témiscamingue territory, it must deal with five communities. Why not consult the tribal council of the Anishinabeg Algonquin nation? Right now, companies consult the Attikamek, and they will consult the Cree communities. I personally think that we will have to go in that direction, because there are too many important issues affecting these communities.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for his speech this afternoon. He is working hard to support Canada's aboriginal peoples.

Will this bill enable the Cree Regional Authority to pass bylaws related to certain regional issues?

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for his question. I should point out that he is the chair of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development, where he is doing very good work. I should also point out that his French has improved dramatically. If I am not mistaken, just six months ago, he spoke no French at all. He has gotten much better.

The answer to his question is, yes, absolutely. The Cree people will now have full jurisdiction in a number of areas, such as health and hygiene. They will decide where to put the hospital. They will decide whether they need 14 doctors in the next five years. They will decide that doctors need to be trained. They will find out whether AIDS is less prevalent in their community than diabetes. Diabetes is a huge problem for them.

Alcoholism is another problem that requires urgent attention. The Cree people will have full jurisdiction in these areas.

The bill also covers environmental protection and pollution prevention. On the practical side, that includes landfill management. They will be responsible for water and waste water systems. They will make the decisions. The federal government will no longer be telling them where to put things. They will decide where, and they will also be in charge of the administration of justice in the north. The Cree people will decide where to put their courthouse, how much money to spend on it and where to build their prison. They will be responsible for all of these matters.

For that reason, and that reason alone, this agreement, which will be sanctioned by the bill, should come into force without delay and serve as an example to other Attikamek, Innu and probably Algonquin councils.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Madam Speaker, my question for a fellow committee member, and a very enlightened representative on the committee, also deals with the mandate that the Cree government will have under the bill, which is much of its legislation will be allowed to meet or exceed provincial or federal standards. This allows individual governments at the community level to make their own choices.

Does my colleague think this is a good way to go?

[The Acting Speaker, NDP, Denise Savoie]

The hon. member for Abitibi—Témiscamingue has 30 seconds for a very brief response.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Madam Speaker, yes, I think it will help them. My colleague is quite right. My answer does not need to be any longer. The answer is yes.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Madam Speaker, like my other colleagues in the House, I am pleased to rise today in support of Bill C-28, An Act to amend the Cree-Naskapi (of Quebec) Act. This is important legislation and I believe there will be agreement on all sides of the House to expedite it.

From the government's own briefing documents, I want to put this into context.

The Cree-Naskapi (of Quebec) Act is considered to be the first aboriginal self-government legislation in Canada. It recognizes local aboriginal government and established a system of land management before the federal government's 1995 inherent right policy.

The act came into force in 1984 in fulfilment of the Government of Canada's obligations under two historic agreements: the James Bay and northern Quebec agreement and the northeastern Quebec agreement.

The James Bay and northern Quebec agreement contains specific obligations in relation to the Cree Nation and the Inuit of northern Quebec. The northeastern Quebec agreement contains specific obligations in relation to the Naskapi Nation.

There is a lot more historical information but I want to get to the proposed amendments that are before the House. This is a very brief summary of them. The proposed amendments would carry out two main objectives: first, equip the Cree Regional Authority with additional responsibilities and powers, including bylaw-making powers, so that the authority is better able to receive and carry out certain specific responsibilities that were assumed by the federal government under the James Bay and northern Quebec agreement; and second, recognize the Crees of Oujé-Bougoumou as a separate band and local government under the Cree-Naskapi (of Quebec) Act.

I wanted to provide the House with that historical context because I also want to talk about the process.

It is important that the people who are actively involved in this be heard in the House through a member of Parliament, because, of course, community members do not have the right to speak in this place. Rather than my paraphrasing, I will use the words of some of the commissioners who came before committee on May 5. They talked a bit about the process and their support for this legislation and what else needs to be done.

We have before the committee Mr. Richard Saunders, the chair of the Cree-Naskapi Commission; Commissioner Robert Kanatewat, who is a Chisasibi on James Bay; and Philip Awashish, from the Mistissini of the Eeyou Istchee interior.

The commissioners came before committee because they wanted to talk about the Cree-Naskapi commissioner's report that appears biannually. Over a number of years, the commissioners, on behalf of their people, have raised the need for these amendments. We are talking about a 19 year process here.

Part of the reason that we are looking at these kinds of amendments is because when the initial agreement was signed in 1984 there was no parallel implementation plan and no requirement for an implementation plan in the legislation. Without that implementation plan, there were delays in moving forward on initiatives that would have benefited the Cree-Naskapi.

In a briefing note that was provided to committee by the commissioners, they talked about this implementation plan. They said:

Typically, the process of implementation, as in the case of the Cree-Naskapi (of Quebec) Act, has been that Parliament enacts legislation and its administration and implementation remains the responsibility of the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development.

As a parenthesis here, I must say that the current Conservative government has inherited many of the problems that were seen under previous government regiments.

They go on in their briefing notes to say:

Throughout this traditional form of implementation, the Cree and Naskapi peoples are denied a meaningful role in the decision-making process even though they (the Cree and Naskapi) are most impacted by the application, administration and implementation of the Cree-Naskapi (of Quebec) Act. The conventional style of implementation is frequently insensitive to the actual needs and aspirations of the Cree and Naskapi peoples and has resulted in symbolic implementation that amounts to no real change in how decisions are made and in how things are done.

In the actual testimony before committee, when the chair of the commission was talking about this particular act and the proposed amendments and report, he said:

There's really not much disagreement on the part of anyone about that. It's really both a symbolic and housekeeping amendment and we're glad to see it. We would note, without being unduly cynical about processes, that this has been promised for the last 19 years and finally the amendment is here. Hallelujah!

That 19-year time frame reflects missed opportunities. It reflects the fact that governments over any number of years have disregarded the ongoing reports by the commissioners calling for these amendments.

The chair of the commission pointed out that this bill was largely a housekeeping bill and that there were other uncontested non-contentious amendments that were very necessary. The Cree is asking that the legislation be expedited and that the process that was used to get to these amendments, which has sped up over the last couple of years, be used to look at the rest of the non-contentious amendments so the peoples of that territory are not waiting 19, 20, 25 years for the next series of amendments that are largely housekeeping.

He goes on to talk about some of these other potential amendments. He says:

If I might just let me say where our concerns lie. This also reflects to some extent what the Cree leadership have told us many times. Recommendations for change to the act, housekeeping amendments, all sorts of things have been recommended, as I noted for 19 years some of them.

Some of these changes are things like referenda. He cites a particular instance:

If the Crees want to transfer a piece of land in a community to the Cree school board to build a Cree school on, they've got to have a referendum. Think about it. In your communities, how many folks would come out to vote on a referendum for the municipality to transfer a piece of land to the school board.

The Crees agree that in some cases a referendum is appropriate but they are saying that so many other levels of government do not require referenda to make decisions in their communities, nor do they have to meet the kinds of percentage levels that are required under the referendum parts of the original 1984 act. That is one housekeeping amendment that they are suggesting, and there are many more. Some are around how band council elections are conducted.

I would urge the current government to use the process that it has already put in place to get to these amendments to ensure we can expedite the next series of amendments.

While I am talking about that kind of process, I want to reference the United Nations declaration on indigenous rights, which talks about many different things, but in the context of this particular legislation before the House, it applies prior and informed consent and the right to make decisions on lands that are within the first nations' traditional territories. This legislation reflects that there is prior informed consent.

What we have heard from the commissioners and other representations is that the Cree-Naskapi and Oujé-Bougoumou feel that they have been included in the process that led up to this legislation and it does reflect the use of their own lands.

A number of members have talked about self-government. I want to use the words of the commissioners who appeared before the committee. They stated:

One of the things we've been pushing for years is the need to make the law accommodate and empower the Cree way of doing things, consistent with the charter and so on to make it a tool for the communities to use so that when the community decides to do something and it's a legitimate decision, then there is legislative capacity to give that effect and to protect it from attack from people who want to argue that the election was a day late and therefore it's invalid.

The problem is that very frequently the act doesn't sufficiently empower the communities. With all due respect, it's a great improvement over the Indian Act, but it suffers from some of the same straightjacket that the Indian Act has always imposed, and that's inevitable. Yes, it was written with negotiation but it was ultimately written by people who have written things like the Indian Act for years. There's a need to break out of that box and to make sure that traditional and customary law, to the extent possible.... And we all recognize the charter, the Criminal Code, and other instruments that we all respect and share, but within those contexts there's a need to make this act a tool of empowerment for the Cree community so they can get on with doing things.

In that context, the bill does not specifically deal with that. The next series of amendments that are required is to really take a look at implementing full self-government. As the commissioner pointed out, this is certainly within the context of the Canadian charter and other legislative frameworks, but what the Cree-Naskapi is asking for, not only asking for but is entitled to, is full self-government and a legitimate request that they be treated on a nation-to-nation basis.

We have heard from other nations that in the ongoing negotiations with the present government and previous governments, there has been a great deal of difficulty in recognizing that nation-to-nation status.

We heard this morning at committee from treaty one in the treaty land entitlement committee, that nation's nation status continues not to be recognized and, arguably, that we would see improved conditions in many first nations communities with that autonomy, that control over their own destiny, and so would look to the government to use this process that they have used to get to this new relationship agreement, to look at these amendments, because that could have a meaningful impact on communities.

I just want to touch for a moment on the new relationship agreement between the Government of Canada and the Cree of Eeyou Isctchee. This is a framework that was hammered out and part of the legislation today deals with a couple of elements in this framework agreement.

The dispute resolution process is not part of the legislation but I want to touch on it briefly because it is an important part. In other land claims implementation agreements, we have seen that the dispute resolution mechanism has not worked very effectively. Often the Government of Canada has simply stepped away or not consented to be involved in the dispute resolution if it does not see it as being to its benefit.

Under this new dispute resolution process, there will be a Cree-Canada standing liaison committee that will be the first place where disputes can be brought for resolution. I understand from the parties involved that they are optimistic that this will be much more successful in dispute resolution so that things do not get dragged out for decades before there is some conclusion to the differences in opinion. The Cree-Canada standing liaison committee is a first step. If that is not resolved, then there is an opportunity for mediation and then, ultimately, arbitration, although my understanding is that at the arbitration level the government must commit to going to arbitration if that is required.

I wanted to comment on that because it has been largely ineffective in other agreements. I look forward to seeing how this works. I am hopeful that this does expedite some of these claims and differences of opinion so that nations can get on with the kind of economic and social development that is so important for the lifeblood of their communities.

I want to touch on one other thing. Although it is outside the context of the act, it does bear raising attention. When the commissioners came before the committee on Tuesday, they raised a number of issues that they had raised during their appearances before the committee about two years ago, and housing continues to be an issue. As part of this current legislation, a substantial amount of money will go into the communities, but there is still an obligation on the government's part around housing.

I want to point out some of the differences in these communities. Part of it is that in other first nations communities people are leaving reserves. The commissioners were very careful to point out that this is actually not the case on the Cree territories. They are saying that the Cree has a 95% retention rate of their young people. The very success of those communities, economically, educationally and otherwise, is part of the pressure that is created on increased population growth.

This is about the fact that there is inadequate housing in the Cree communities. They wanted to point out that a template or a model that is used to create housing for some nations does not work in their territory because of the 95% retention rate. We have healthy, vibrant communities where young people want to stay, get their education and work. Therefore, we need policies that are not those template policies that are just applied across the board.

Quebec is looking for regional formulas that actually reflect the regional needs. I believe this legislation is an opportunity for us to raise some of these other issues and encourage the government to be proactive in working with the Cree communities in order to resolve some of these other issues.

The NDP is fully supportive of Bill C-28 and see it as something that can be used as an encouragement for other nations and for the Cree themselves in looking forward to some progress in some of those long outstanding areas.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Madam Speaker, I listened with interest to my colleague on the committee. We have certainly enjoyed the testimony in dealing with this act. There is all-party agreement that this should proceed.

I was interested in the member's comments about the dispute resolution process. I know this was something she asked specifically about at the briefing provided yesterday.

Before I do that, I want to mention that last week I was at Stoney Nakoda, in Bighorn, Alberta. They have a very extensive reserve, with three major communities that are quite separate geographically, in southern Alberta as well as up near Rocky Mountain House.

Despite that difference and a large population, they have a 93% retention rate, very similar to the retention of people living in the Cree communities we are talking about. My point is that the regional differences the member is pointing out are not restricted to one part of the country.

However, going back to the dispute resolution issue, the member has looked at the language and she has a distinct interest. Is there anything in the language that could be written in a different way, or is she simply going to wait to see how it performs as a new model?

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Madam Speaker, the parliamentary secretary and I served together on the committee. I do appreciate the hard work of all the committee members. It is one of the committees that functions quite well in this House, and I think that is a tribute to all members on the committee.

The thing I like about the dispute resolution process is the fact that the Canada-Cree standing liaison committee is the first step. Because there has been a drastic improvement in relationships between the Cree and the Crown, in this case the current government, we look forward to the shift in that relationship. People are coming to the table with goodwill to work on some of the issues.

Bill C-28 is symbolic of that. When the commissioners came before the committee two years ago, that was not the case. In fact they said in their 2006 report that it was essentially a poisonous relationship between the government and the Cree-Naskapi. We have seen a shift over the last couple of years in that relationship, and a willingness.

This dispute resolution process signifies that shift in relationship. The fact that we have this mechanism with the Cree-Canada standing liaison committee to refer matters to first, and if they cannot be resolved they are referred to mediation, is a positive step.

The parliamentary secretary asked me if I had any suggestions for improvement. I would hope that if matters end up having to go to arbitration the government would not stand in the way. I know that, generally speaking, parties have to agree to arbitration, but the government's track record in terms of going to arbitration has not been stellar. It simply has not agreed to do that. Again, it is not just this government, it was past governments as well.

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and Federal Interlocutor for Métis and Non-Status Indians]

Madam Speaker, I listened with interest to my critic's comments today. I appreciate her party's support for this important legislation. I know she has a special interest, as has already been mentioned by the parliamentary secretary, in the mediation and arbitration sections of this new relationship. I encourage her not to hesitate about congratulating the current government. I think we are doing a very good job. She talked about the difference between the relationship in 2006 and the subsequent relationship. Once in a while she could give us a bit of credit, but we will not dwell on that today.

I think she twigged on something that is quite important here. When we codify something like a mediation and arbitration process and put it in an agreement, like we have here, two things happen. One is that it finally clarifies the rules.

In this early agreement, Canada was completely new to this process of implementing new treaties. Frankly, not only did we not have any framework to do it, we did not have any experience in doing it. It was a difficult learning experience, obviously, for the aboriginal people, but I also think it was difficult for the different governments and bureaucracies to think through how to handle this.

However, when we codify it and put in language like this, two things happen. One is that it establishes the rules, and we are better for that. It makes it very clear. I would point out that it is not always just the government that does not want to zero in on arbitration; often the first nations do not want to be compelled to go to arbitration. The first nations may want to discuss it without feeling they could be forced to go to arbitration against their will. It is a two-way street on arbitration, I think.

I will point out another example, the Specific Claims Tribunal Act, which all parties again supported in this House last year. Once we codify how the relationship is established and we put in place the rules as to how it will go forward, in that case an actual tribunal, then everybody gets serious about those other relationships. We settled a record number of specific claims last year because people realized they should get serious about mediation, discussion and negotiations because that legislation was hanging over their heads.

I think this will do the same thing. It will bring good efforts, from all sides, to come to conclusions on a mediation and a discussion process through the commission that has been set up.