Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank both of the witnesses.
I want to dig a bit into the best approaches to handle an issue that I think all of us around this table agree on. We are concerned that Canadian businesses, Canadian investment companies and Canadian pension funds are investing in vehicles that could be against values that Canadians hold dear. I think we agree on that around the table.
What I'm trying to figure out is the best way of doing that. There's a spectrum, from making things criminal, through to punishable, through to disclosable, all the way to permissible. It's a spectrum that I am sorting through.
I introduced Bill C-441 in 2009, a private member's bill—the place where good ideas go to die. This bill would have required pension funds to disclose investments, divestments or business decisions that had environmental, social and governance factors. The theory was that pension fund holders were put at risk if pension funds had investments in things that were bad, such as environmental degradation or labour practices that were wrong. This is especially so with pension funds, because these are long-term investments, and a pension fund member wants to have the capacity, over a long period of time, to know that their investment in a pension fund is going to yield good fruit. A coup is bad. Environmental degradation is bad. Bad labour practices, from which lawsuits are engendered, are bad. Human rights violations are bad.
Tell me a bit about your instinct on that spectrum of everything from criminal indictments for activities all the way through to permissible and “we don't care”.
This is for you, Mr. Payette, because you advise. I generally think risk-aversion is real, and if people have the right knowledge they will do the right thing, but maybe I'm naive.