Bill C-15 (Historical)

Strengthening Military Justice in the Defence of Canada Act

An Act to amend the National Defence Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts

This enactment amends provisions of the National Defence Act governing the military justice system. The amendments, among other things,
(a) provide for security of tenure for military judges until their retirement;
(b) permit the appointment of part-time military judges;
(c) specify the purposes, objectives and principles of the sentencing process;
(d) provide for additional sentencing options, including absolute discharges, intermittent sentences and restitution;
(e) modify the composition of a court martial panel according to the rank of the accused person; and
(f) modify the limitation period applicable to summary trials and allow an accused person to waive the limitation periods.
The enactment also sets out the Canadian Forces Provost Marshal’s duties and functions and clarifies his or her responsibilities. It also changes the name of the Canadian Forces Grievance Board to the Military Grievances External Review Committee.
Finally, it makes amendments to the delegation of the Chief of the Defence Staff’s powers as the final authority in the grievance process and makes consequential amendments to other Acts.

Motions in Amendment

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Hamilton Centre spent an entire speech without referring to the motion that is before us, which is to amend the bill. He says he wishes the bill to pass, as we agreed at committee, yet he is speaking here as part of a party that has said it is in favour of the amendment.

My question for the member for Hamilton Centre is, therefore, very simple. It was not answered by the previous member. I have not heard an answer yet. Why is the NDP favouring this amendment to an article of the bill whose version in the previous Parliament, in Bill C-41, it was prepared to accept? What is it in the tenacity of the NDP that leads it to invent a principle, invent a commitment that it never showed in committee, in this Parliament or the previous Parliament, at the last minute, and put up a number of speakers today to delay debate on a point that is now suddenly important to it, which we have never heard it speak on before, in four parliaments? What is that other than delay of an important issue, delay of the very objective that the member for Hamilton Centre has himself articulated today?

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would just point out to the member that, apparently, there were witnesses who came forward and gave evidence to this effect.

In fact we know that once the bill is passed, it will still need more work because an entire review needs to be done. We have made the commitment that the NDP, when it forms government, will do that wall-to-wall review, even if the current government will not. There is the difference. The difference is that we recognize there is still work to be done, even with this amendment and even with this bill passing. This House will be seized with this matter again in a few short years, and we will be making things even better.

Does that mean we should not pass the bill today? No.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Mr. Speaker, one of the issues on the amendment that has come up from time to time is what I call a bogus issue of the live fire exception: that somehow the VCDS—not the commanding officer, not the guy in the field—will know that there is potentially a live fire operation. When it is the VCDS sitting in Ottawa, the guy who tells the chief of police—that is, the Provost Marshal—what to do and not the investigators in the field, the real worry here is other types of investigations. What about detainee issues in Afghanistan? What about the incident that occurred when our committee was in Afghanistan, when the commanding officer was charged with conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline and sent home because of an inappropriate fraternization with another officer? What about potential interference with those things?

These are the kinds of worries we have. They are worries that the relationship is not proper and professional and at arm's length. That is why we think the protocol that was signed in 1998 is the proper way to go, not the backward step that is being taken here.

Does the member have any comment to make in that regard?

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my first thought is how lucky we are in the official opposition to have such a fantastic defence critic who understands these issues so well. I am not a lawyer, not everyone here is. I am a layperson so I bring whatever practical experience and knowledge, as well as tapping into expertise. However, I listened to the hon. member point out in a very short period of time the flaws in the one example that the Conservatives stand on.

Is that not what people do when they do not have a really good argument? I have done it myself, so I know it works. They take one good issue and put it down on the ground and just stand on that one little thing and do not move. That is their one position. That one example is not nearly enough for us to be swayed to see this differently.

The hon. member for St. John's East has pointed out other equally important examples that also make the case that this would be the right change to make. Therefore, the Conservatives' one example, in our opinion, is not nearly enough. It is a point, but it is just one point. It is not enough in the tsunami of points that our defence critic can bring forward to justify the position we have over the position the government has.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today in the House to speak to Bill C-15, an act to amend the National Defence Act and to make consequential amendments to other acts, and to speak to the amendments made by the member for Saanich—Gulf Islands.

Let me begin by underscoring the fact that there are many important reforms in the bill, and the NDP will be somewhat reluctantly supporting this long, overdue update to the military justice system when it comes up for a vote at report stage.

That being said, New Democrats also recognize that the legislation is just a first step, with much more left to accomplish to effect the type of change we are seeking for Canada's military justice system. Members of the Canadian Forces are held to an extremely high standard of discipline, and they in turn deserve a judicial system that is held to a comparable standard.

At its core, Bill C-15 is similar to the version of Bill C-41, which came out of committee in the 40th Parliament. However, important amendments passed at committee stage in the last Parliament were not included by the government in Bill C-15. One such omission was the failure to include a measure to broaden the list of offences removed from the consequences of a criminal record.

Most Canadians would be shocked to learn that the people who bravely serve our country can receive a criminal record from a system that lacks the due process usually required in civilian criminal courts, which is why New Democrats fought relentlessly to ensure that the necessary changes were made to streamline and modernize Canada's military justice system.

When Bill C-15 was first presented in October 2011, New Democrats immediately recognized the deficiencies of the bill and set to work, both in the House and at committee, to ensure the legislation was the best it possibly could be to achieve the goal of modernizing Canada's military justice system. My colleagues at committee pressed for the necessary changes and amendments to reduce the effect of disciplinary offences, of possible criminal records, and challenge the failure of the legislation to grant full charter rights.

Thanks to the hard work of New Democrats on the defence committee, particularly the member for St. John's East, the list of offences and the number of cases that will not attract a criminal record has been broadened and now account for approximately 95% of offences. New Democrats additionally fought to ensure that previously convicted CF members would actually have their records expunged. We also moved a series of amendments to improve the bill, demonstrating our commitment to reform.

Some of the key amendments presented by my colleagues included giving the Chief of the Defence Staff the financial authority to compensate CF members in the grievance process; changing the composition of the grievance committee to include a 60% civilian membership and exclude active duty CF members, enhancing the independence of the board; a provision ensuring that a person who is convicted of an offence during a summary trial is not unfairly subjected to a criminal record; and clarifying the letter of the law, as recommended by Justice Lesage, to make it clear that a charge must be laid within a year of a service offence.

In spite of all of the successful amendments that New Democrats were able to make at committee stage, we recognize that much still needs to be done to ensure that Canada's military justice system is the best that it can be. Some of the changes New Democrats would still like to see include conducting an independent wall-to-wall review of the military justice system, and providing a legislative response to the Lesage report within a year.

Here the NDP stands with esteemed Justice Létourneau in calling for the Canadian government to end its one-off approach to amending the military justice system and to conduct a comprehensive and independent review of the entirety of the sections of the National Defence Act pertaining to the military justice system. In addition, the NDP is calling for the Conservative government to bring a legislative response to the Lesage report within one year.

The members of the Canadian Forces deserve no less.

Let us look at the reforming of the summary trial system. Although some progress has been made, we believe that further reforms are necessary and a review of the summary trial system is required. Currently, a conviction of a service offence from a summary trial in the Canadian Forces may result in a criminal record without proper procedural fairness for the CF member. Summary trials are held without the ability of the accused to consult counsel. There are no appeals or transcripts of the trial, and the judge is the accused person's commanding officer. This process can have an unduly harsh effect on the offender in question and lacks traditional judicial standards. New Democrats would like to see more reform in this area.

We would also like to see the expansion of the service offences exempted from receiving criminal records. The New Democrats understand that minor service offences should not lead to criminal records that impact CF members outside of their military duties. We fought for an expansion of these offences since Bill C-15 was first introduced and we will continue fighting on behalf of the service men and women whose post-military lives could be affected by minor service offences that result in criminal records.

We need to reform the grievance system. A major flaw in the military grievance system is that the Chief of the Defence Staff presently lacks the authority to resolve any and all financial claims arising from a grievance, contrary to a recommendation in the Lamer report. Despite the fact that the Minister of National Defence agreed to this recommendation eight years ago, the matter is still not resolved. The New Democrats believe that the minister should finally implement this recommendation at the earliest possible date.

We also believe that the government needs to strengthen the Military Police Complaints Commission. Bill C-15 gives the Vice Chief of the Defence Staff authority to direct military police investigations. This measure is inconsistent with existing arrangements in the accountability framework as a clear violation of maintaining the independence of the Military Police Complaints Commission. Allowing the chain of command to interfere with military police investigations is an irresponsible measure that flies in the face of the harsh lessons learned from the Somalia inquiry. Past and present chairs of the Military Police Complaints Commission have stated as much. Come 2015, the New Democrats will work to make the changes necessary to ensure the full independence of the MPCC.

In conclusion, with colleagues such as the member for St. John's East and the member for Sackville—Eastern Shore, and their continuing commitment to military families and our veterans, Canadians can be assured that the NDP will continue fighting to bring more fairness to the Canadian military justice system for the members of our armed forces who put their lives on the line for the service of Canada each and every day.

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, I listened closely to the remarks by the member for Sudbury, listening hard for the insight I was hoping to have with regard to the motion in front of us. We are discussing a motion to amend a bill that has already been considered at great length at second reading and in committee. However, he did not even mention clause 4, which is the subject of the motion.

Neither he nor any of his colleagues have yet to explain why today the NDP is supporting a motion that would drastically amend clause 4 when in committee in this Parliament, and in the previous Parliament, the New Democrats were prepared to accept clause 4 as unamended. Why were they happy to have the version of the bill we all agreed to in committee back in a minority Parliament, when they had more leverage and influence in committee, accept clause 4 as it was in committee in this Parliament, and then all of a sudden at report stage an amendment pops up from someone who was not in the committee and they are prepared to support it?

Does this not speak to the motives of the NDP?

[The Deputy Speaker]

Order. We have a point of order.

I would just remind members that when there is a request for a point of order, the Chair is on his feet and everyone else sits down.

The hon. member for St. John's East on a point of order.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, I do not think it is appropriate for a member of Parliament who is on a committee to put facts that are not true to another member of Parliament who was not there and ask him to comment on it.

There was an amendment proposed and defeated in committee on the section the member is talking about. The bill passed at committee on division, not supported by this hon. member. Therefore, I do not think it is appropriate to put untrue matters to a member and ask him to comment on it based on—

[The Deputy Speaker]

That is not a point of order.

I would ask the parliamentary secretary to go back and finish the question.

He is using up a substantial amount of time. I do not know if he wanted to add anything further or if I could go to the hon. member for Sudbury to respond.

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the question is very simple. Clause 4 was in this version, the version of Bill C-15 that was reported back to the House in the 40th Parliament. It was in the same version after consideration by his colleagues in committee in this Parliament. Why is there suddenly, after four Parliaments' consideration of the bill, a desire on the part of the NDP to amend clause 4?

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am very honoured to answer that question, because it seems to me that it has been answered numerous times. The only question the parliamentary secretary has is the same one over and over again.

I thought we were in a debate. I thought we were listening to new ideas to try to find ways to make the bill better. I believe that at the top of this, the hon. member for Saanich—Gulf Islands brought amendments forward to make it better. Perhaps the hon. parliamentary secretary is confused. We are in the House of Commons to try to create legislation that works for Canadians rather than to ask a simple question over and over again.

This question has been answered numerous times. I would actually like to ask him a question. Why has the government not recognized that we need to fix Bill C-15 to ensure that we have the same standards that all Canadians can expect from their legal system?

[The Deputy Speaker]

That is not the way the process works.

The hon. member for Scarborough—Guildwood has the floor.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is ironic to me that the opposition, both official and otherwise, is basically saying that this is good and is a move forward but that it is not perfect and could be better, and here is a small way in which it could be made better. Yet we get this wall of resistance to what is ultimately a relatively minor change. This is what happens in committee. This is what happens here. We get this bizarre system of ridicule, which makes it very hard to support the government, even when, by the operation of random luck, it actually gets it right, or mostly right.

If the hon. member looks at the section being debated, which is a very small section, it does not restrict the VCDS to simply saying that there is live fire, so we cannot go there. It lets him or her tell the police that this is where they go, this is where they do not, and this is how to conduct its investigation. It is a pretty serious issue.

I would be interested in his comments on the enemy of perfection.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is true that it makes us scratch our heads as we sit in the House of Commons talking about and debating a bill, trying to find ways to make it better. When we do support something that is being brought forward, they still question it. It makes us wonder where their thinking is. Sometimes it seems ideological rather than an attempt to make the best laws for Canadians.

I would also like to mention that there are many validators of this position. Peter Tinsley, the former chair of the Military Police Complaints Commission, spoke to this. He said:

My very brief summary submission is that if Bill C-15 is passed into law in its present form, inclusive of the new subsection 18.5(3) authorizing the VCDS to interfere with police operations and investigations, it will be inconsistent with the principles of police independence as recognized by the Supreme Court of Canada as late as 1999 as underpinning the rule of law, as well as run counter to the norms of police-government relations...

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is my great pleasure to rise in the House to speak to Bill C-15 on military justice once again.

I would like to begin by saying a few words about what was truly an excellent week for the official opposition, the NDP. Yesterday evening, speaking of justice, one of our colleagues succeeded in getting a bill on sexual identity and the protection of transsexual and transgender people passed. Congratulations! That was a good example of our New Democratic values.

We also put forward a motion on science, which the Conservatives rejected. We revealed the truth about the Conservative government: it does not like science, rational thought or facts. We already knew that, but now we have incontrovertible proof. What a victory for the NDP.

Now, with this bill, thanks to the hard work of my New Democratic colleagues in committee and in the House, we have persuaded the government to listen to reason and we have improved this bill, which, initially, was deeply flawed.

This is a step in the right direction, and I am very proud of the NDP's work. The official opposition has made things better and ensured greater respect for the men and women who defend our country and serve in the armed forces.

There is room for improvement in this bill. The government waited too long. We need a comprehensive overhaul of the military police justice system. Unfortunately, the Conservative government has dragged its feet. It has made small changes here and there that do not meet the needs of the men and women of our armed forces. It has refused to adopt a comprehensive approach that would solve all of the problems at once.

Justice Lamer's report came out in 2003, and it is now 2013. That means that these recommendations have been pending for 10 years, over several Parliaments. Both Liberal and Conservative governments have dragged their feet, proving that even though they claim it is a priority, they do not have much respect for the men and women who serve in the Canadian armed forces. Sadly, their actions prove that this is not a priority. There is also the issue of respect for our veterans, which comes up often.

The official opposition is often accused of not liking the armed forces. The Conservatives often make somewhat dishonest, vicious and mean attacks in that respect. The NDP's work in this area shows how rigorous we are and how much we respect the people who serve in Canada's armed forces.

We ask a lot of them. We often ask them to sacrifice their family life, to go abroad and put themselves in extremely dangerous situations where they risk not only getting hurt, but also losing their lives. We cannot ask these Canadians and these Quebeckers to give so much unless we, as a country, as a government, as legislators, put in place a set of mechanisms that will ensure that they are treated with respect, fairness and compassion.

More and more countries are thinking about how to ensure that the military justice system in large part respects human rights and international conventions. Thanks to pressure from my NDP colleagues, we managed to improve the situation of our soldiers. Since we are asking so much of them, we must give them back as much.

As the representative of the people of Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, I believe it is important to move in the right direction. That is what we have done and what we are continuing to do here today. I say this in anticipation of the parliamentary secretary's question when I finish my speech in 10 minutes. Our successful work means that 95% of disciplinary code breaches no longer lead to a criminal record. That progress is in large part responsible for the fact that the NDP caucus is now united in supporting Bill C-15.

At the time, I remember rising in the House and making much more critical comments, because there had not been amendments, which were made later.

We had a problem with the current system because relatively minor disciplinary infractions left a permanent mark on the lives of these people, who are often relatively young when they retire from the armed forces and who have a career after leaving. Members can imagine how difficult it can be for them to find a new job, new occupation or new profession, especially if their military criminal record, resulting from a breach of conduct or bad behaviour when they were members of the Canadian armed forces, follows them.

It was unfair. This hung a millstone around people's necks and put them at a disadvantage for the rest of their careers. However, we fought for them. We stood strong. We argued. The members of the committee did their work. Our excellent defence critic led the fight on this. Today, given the improvements made to this bill, the NDP caucus will support it.

The amendments made to clause 75, which pertains to criminal records, are a great victory for the NDP. That is why I started my speech by talking about our recent victories, which always make us happy, despite the fact that we are dealing with a majority government that rarely listens to parliamentarians or Canadians.

That is not all. I also wanted to point out that the NDP fought to ensure that many members of the Canadian Forces who have already been convicted can have their criminal records erased. This is not simply for the future; it also rights past and present wrongs. That was very important to us.

We also moved a series of amendments to improve the bill in order to show our commitment to our men and women in uniform, as well as to a more comprehensive reform of the system that would make it possible to implement a more logical, consistent and respectful structure. For example, we suggested giving the Chief of the Defence Staff the financial authority to compensate members of the Canadian Forces as part of a grievance resolution process. This is found in the amended version of clause 6 of Bill C-41, in direct response to a recommendation made by Justice Lamer 10 years ago.

We also want to make changes to the composition of the grievance resolution committee to include 60% civilian membership and to not include active members of the Canadian Forces. This was the amended clause 11 of Bill C-41, which would help make the committee more independent. These changes are important to us, because there is a problem with the current system, in that the judge is both judge and jury. The danger of being judged by one's peers is that they are involved. We believe the judicial process must be independent to protect the rights of the accused. That is a basic judicial principle that is generally applied in civilian society.

We think that the process should be made more civil, in the sense that more civilians should be involved in the process so that people who are directly involved do not end up judging their subordinates, especially in cases of insubordination.

We also proposed a clause to ensure that a person convicted of an offence during a summary trial is not unfairly subjected to a criminal record. This is the bill's famous clause 75.

The NDP also proposed that we guarantee the independence of the police by abolishing subsections 18.5(1) to 18.5(5), in clause 4 of the bill, to prevent the Chief of Defence Staff from issuing specific instructions on an investigation to the Canadian Forces Provost Marshal. Once again, this is a matter of independence, respect and the basic principle of justice.

Lastly, we asked for precisions regarding the letter of the law, as recommended by Justice LeSage, to indicate that a charge must be laid within a year after the offence was committed.

This concludes my speech to show how much the NDP—the official opposition—cares about this issue. We care about the men and women who defend our country, who bear arms and who risk their lives. They do their job, and we—in the NDP and in the opposition—do ours too, in their best interests and in the best interests of all Canadians.