Bill C-27 (Historical)

First Nations Financial Transparency Act

An Act to enhance the financial accountability and transparency of First Nations

This enactment enhances the financial accountability and transparency of First Nations.

Motions in Amendment

[The Acting Speaker, Barry Devolin]

As is the practice in this House, members are given significant latitude when debating a motion before this place. I would ask the hon. member, and all hon. members, to speak to the matter at hand and to address what is before the House.

The hon. member for Timmins—James Bay.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am not asking for much latitude at all. I am speaking right to this bill, to the fact that the minister now has the power to withhold funding.

I know that the Conservatives play the dog whistle vote to their base to all the time about those bad native people, and that they would be able to punish those native communities sounds like a great thing. They punished the children of Attawapiskat for three solid months by cutting off funding to education. That would be illegal under the provincial system. They could not do it. They did that and had to go to federal court and lost. Now they are having to change the law so that they can impose those kinds of punishments on communities, and they think they will get away with it. Children cannot be held as hostages in the way the government did in Attawapiskat from January to March of 2012.

[Raymond Côté, NDP, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the hon. member for Timmins—James Bay for his speech. It was very sensitive and very much in tune with his community in general and the aboriginal communities in his riding in particular.

For the government to claim that it is squeaky clean is totally ridiculous. If it showed as much zeal for strengthening the Canada Elections Act to give more powers to the Chief Electoral Officer, I would urge the government to exercise some restraint because I do not need to know the colour of every candidate's underwear during every election.

People need to realize that this bill goes way too far. It is very disturbing to see the fanatical zeal with which this government attacks specific groups in Canada. Take the example of the Canadian unions that are also the target of an initiative to disclose everything, including things that do not generally have to be disclosed in our society.

I would like the hon. member for Timmins—James Bay to say a few words about this disturbing zeal for attacking specific groups.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the failure of the government is it believes there is a quick, easy way to force through its agenda. That is not how change happens.

In my speech I asked for accountability at the Department of Indian Affairs because that has stopped so much development. There are basic issues, where agreements are in place that can move forward; those sit on somebody's desk and at the eleventh hour they get cancelled. That would never happen at the provincial level. It happens at Indian Affairs all the time. If we dealt with that, we would start to move ahead.

I think the issue of accountability and financial accountability is paramount. I certainly think we should work with this. Now agreements are being signed with mining companies. I would like to see transparent agreements. I would like to see transparent resource revenue sharing as our communities are developing, so everybody knows that if one is moving into a territory, these are the ground rules.

This is what companies have been asking for. They are saying they know there are going to be rules; they want to be shown what the rules are so everyone can work together. However, this government is picking one group, the first nations communities, and treating them as the bad guys who have to be punished, as opposed to doing this in a coherent manner so we could actually move forward.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Mr. Speaker, this member and other members bring forward arguments relating to why they think this is not good legislation. I am curious, because I come from northern Alberta. I have many relatives in first nations bands, treaty and status Indians. Even some past chiefs are related to me up in northern Alberta. I worked as a lawyer there, too. I saw first nations' plights first-hand. I saw how chiefs used moneys for their own benefit instead of for members. In particular, I even heard of cases where they would take band money, gamble with it and lose it, for their own gain or loss, as the case may be.

I heard some other arguments the hon. member has made. I have heard questions in the House from him before. Quite frankly, some of them seemed reasonable in the past. Even some of his comments now seem slightly reasonable in some respects.

Does the hon. member not see that this, in particular, is a first step for accountability in first nations, where chiefs and band leaders will be accountable to the members, and ultimately they will get better services? Band members will be treated with respect, while right now many of them have no respect. If they are not related or in some way connected to the chief, they have no rights. They have to leave the band under divorce cases or other things. Does he not see that this accountability, this step, would be the best thing for the people of Canada, the best thing for all members of all bands across the country? Does he not see that?

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I can say I am quite proud that nobody is going to accuse the chiefs who represent my communities of taking band funds and going off and gambling that money. That might be a good stereotype. Maybe it has happened. I know it has happened at municipal levels, but it does not mean that we accuse every municipality of being corrupt and needing extra levels. We are asking what is only fair.

I would like to see the government meet the basic standards of accountability and transparency. We see there is a black hole of accountability within its departments. Before government members accuse native leaders of only helping people who are their relatives, and taking money and spending it on gambling, I think they would be well served to say to Canadians they will actually meet a standard of accountability and then ask other Canadians to meet it with them, rather than just throwing those kinds of smears around.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am honoured to rise on behalf of my constituents in Surrey North to speak on Bill C-27, an act to enhance the financial accountability and transparency of first nations.

I will speak to accountability and transparency in a moment, but I would first point out that the bill is fundamentally flawed in failing to address the real issues that we should be talking about in this House, the real issues affecting our first nation communities, including in northern British Columbia, Alberta and across the Prairies to Ontario and the rest of the country. Those real issues are housing, jobs, education and running water for our first nation young people.

It is a fundamental flaw in the bill that we are not discussing these issues that have affected our first nations for many years. We should be discussing these issues in the House to improve the lives of our first nation people. Yet, the Conservative government has failed to address any of these issues that need to be addressed.

Before starting out with a bill, it would make sense to consult the very people it would affect. We have heard in this House and at committee that the government has failed to address the concerns of first nations by listening to them, the very people the bill would affect.

It is not just about listening, but also about making changes to the bill to improve accountability and transparency. As we heard in committee, New Democrats produced a number of amendments that would have improved the bill, yet the Conservatives did not want to listen to them or make the changes.

From the Conservatives we have seen no accountability and transparency. There was no accountability by the Minister of Agriculture when it came to the XL Foods debacle. We saw no transparency or accountability from the Minister of National Defence or the Associate Minister of National Defence when it came to the F-35s. My colleague from northern Ontario talked about the lack of accountability in Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada in his speech, referring to a “black hole of accountability” there.

I think that accountability and transparency has to start with the government being accountable to the taxpayers of this country. However, the current Conservative government has failed to be accountable and transparent.

Despite hearing about transparency and accountability from the other side of the House, we have Bill C-38 and now Bill C-45, the omnibus budget bills. The Conservatives failed to properly consult on these bills and to put them into the right committees to look at the issues affecting Canadians. I am taken aback when Conservatives talk about accountability and transparency, because the current government has not shown any of that when it comes to a number of issues that have been raised in the House.

There are a number of so-called transparency and accountability issues the government brings up in the bill. I want to highlight them and look at whether there really is transparency and accountability and if things are in place already addressing some of those concerns.

The bill would require every first nation, except those with self-government regimes, to produce an audited annual consolidated financial statement; a separate annual schedule of remuneration covering the salaries, commissions, bonuses, fees, et cetera, paid by the first nation and any entity controlled by the first nation through its chief and each of its councillors in their professional and personal capacities; an auditor's written report respecting the consolidated financial statement; and an auditor's report respecting the schedule of remuneration.

For each of these four documents, the bill requires each first nation to provide it within four months upon request of any of its members, and to publish the document on its website and retain it there for over 10 years. Here is the kicker: the minister must also publish the document on the website of the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development. Failure of the first nation to comply with these requirements of the bill enables the minister to withhold any funds to first nations, and the minister can also terminate any funding agreement with first nations.

We heard from the previous speaker about the minister arbitrarily having these powers and the ability to withhold money for the very issues that we need to address. We saw him last winter withholding money for three months from first nation schools in northern Ontario communities.

There is a whole bunch of requirements now being put on first nations to report this stuff. I think these onerous requirements are already in place, because we can get that information already. However, I do know that the Conservatives have to play to their ideological base and interest groups to make it look like they are actually addressing the issues of first nations.

Again, if they were really concerned about addressing the real issues in our first nation communities, we would be discussing housing for first nations. We would be discussing education for every child and adult in first nations. We would be addressing water issues in first nation communities.

I have listed a number of requirements of the bill that will put an onerous burden on first nations. I also want to let the House and the people who are listening know that there are certain mechanisms in place that already incorporate some of these things. The current policy based requirements include the fact that the majority of the funding arrangements between Canada and first nations are in the form of fixed term contribution agreements under which first nations must satisfy certain conditions to ensure continued federal contribution payments. The requirements for financial reporting are also set out in AANDC's year-end financial reporting handbook. Under the year-end financial reporting handbook, first nations must submit to AANDC annual audited consolidated financial statements for which public funds are provided to them. These include the salary, honoraria, and travel expenses of all elected, appointed and senior unelected band officials. The latter basically include unelected positions, such as those of executive director and band manager.

Therefore, we already have in place arrangements where first nations provide this information when they sign agreements with the government for the funds available to them.

New Democrats are opposed to this legislation, as it will be imposed on first nations. We need to work in collaboration with first nations to come up with a framework to address the real issues that are of concern to them and Canadians. This has been going on for many years. We need to take a look at these issues. We should be discussing first nations' housing, education and running water. These are the real issues affecting our first nations, yet the government has consistently failed to address them.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I feel that the member has moved the debate along a little bit. He should stay tuned in the next couple of days and weeks for legislation that I think he will support, because it will deal with the structural challenges around water and waste-water treatment, capacity reporting, monitoring and maintenance and, of course, replacing the infrastructure itself. We look forward to his support.

However, what he said is that these communities are already doing this. The problem is that they are doing it as an obligation to the department. We are saying that they should do it as an obligation to their constituents. I hear governance somewhere in there. I hear strengthening the ability between a constituent and its government, in the same way that the member's wages are posted and the same way mine are. In fact mine have to be posted even beyond any remuneration or expenses. The mayors of cities within the member's riding are posting their own as well. The premier has put most of his up in the recent past.

When a first nation's government receives a critical mass of its funds from another government, otherwise known as the taxpayer, why should it not simply turn to its community members and put that out to them? What fundamental problem would the member have with that concept?

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, I am very happy that the government is bringing forward the real issues that we should be talking about in the House.

The Conservatives have been in government for six years. Prior to that my colleagues over there in the corner were in government for many years. The very issues that are facing first nations today have been problems for many years. The government has failed to address those conditions.

I am very happy that the government is bringing forward something that will address the real issues affecting our first nations communities.

In regard to the member's question, with any bill that is brought forward, I think the fundamental thing that needs to be done is to consult with the very people who will be affected. The government has failed to do that.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to commend my colleague for his speech.

With regard to Bill C-27 currently before us, as the member said, we absolutely must not impose more restrictive standards on the first nations. The thing that strikes us is the notable lack of collaboration with the first nations when it comes to this bill. What is more, as the member said, this bill does nothing to address the real problem, namely that living conditions for first nations are getting worse.

My question has to do with the findings that the Auditor General released in June 2011. In her findings, she called for major structural reforms in order to improve the federal government's policies and practices.

What does my colleague think? Can he comment on this?

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, again it pains me because I think we should be discussing issues that are very important to the first nation community. Those issues include education, water, and jobs for our young people.

This bill actually does not address any of that. A bill should begin with collaboration with the first nations to look at what their needs are and how we can address some of the issues in part of those communities.

My hon. colleagues talked about the former Auditor General and a number of recommendations in her report last year. We fully support those recommendations that would help advance our first nations and bring transparency and accountability to our first nations.

This bill is basically a smokescreen. It does not address accountability or transparency but does address the ideological base the government is catering to.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is almost trite to say but profoundly important to remember that governing is about priorities and choices. A majority government is in a unique position in this regard. A majority government can control the parliamentary agenda and research whatever issue it wishes. A majority government has access to full information and the resources of our civil service and departments. A majority government can put whatever legislation it wishes before the House.

For all Canadians watching today who care about what is going on in Parliament, the government has put Bill C-27 before us. This is what the bill would do. It would require all first nations, except those with self-governing regimes, to produce an audited annual consolidated financial statement and a separate annual schedule of remuneration that details the remuneration, salaries, wages, commissions, bonuses, fees, honoraria, dividends and expenses, including transportation, accommodation, meals, hospitality and incidentals, paid by first nations, and any entity controlled by a first nation, to its chief and each of the councillors in their professional and personal capacities. It requires an auditor's written report respecting the consolidated financial statements and an auditor's report respecting the schedule of remuneration. For each of these four documents, the bill would require each first nation to provide the document upon request to any of its members within 120 days, for the band to publish this information and documents on its website and to retain it on its website for 10 years.

Furthermore, the minister must publish the documents on the website of the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development. Failure of a first nation to comply with these requirements would enable any first nation member to apply for a court order to the Superior Court; any person, including the minister, to apply for a court order to the Superior Court; and the minister to develop a so-called appropriate action plan to remedy the breach. The minister may withhold any funds to the first nation or terminate any funding agreement with that first nation.

As all Canadians can easily see, the bill deals with first nations. I ask everyone to consider all of the issues facing first nations people on reserve and in urban areas today. There are poverty rates facing first nations that are dramatically above non-aboriginals. There are incarceration rates, both men and in particular women, far exceeding the percentage of population that first nations comprise in our country. There are reserves across this country without safe drinking water. There are reserves across this country without proper housing, where multiple generations of families, sometimes 10 to 20 people, are crammed together, living in houses built for five. There are reserves without proper schools in this country. There are substandard and fewer education dollars and outcomes for aboriginals than there are for non-aboriginals.

Across this country on first nations reserves and in urban areas, there are epidemics of suicide, drug abuse and domestic violence. There are aboriginal people in Canada today who are living in third world conditions. This past summer, Canadians saw the Red Cross sending emergency aid to Canadians living on a reserve in Canada. The conditions on the ground are deplorable.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The opposition tabled three motions that dealt with the substantive elements of Bill C-27. The member has not just deviated but has gone completely off the map in terms of what the House intended or contemplated speaking to today. I would ask you, Mr. Speaker, to make a determination in this regard.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

That is not a point of order.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

It is a point of order.