Bill C-27 (Historical)

First Nations Financial Transparency Act

An Act to enhance the financial accountability and transparency of First Nations

This enactment enhances the financial accountability and transparency of First Nations.

First Nations Financial Transparency Act

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this afternoon we are discussing Bill C-27, which claims to promote financial transparency on the part of the first nations. I am very proud to be firmly opposed to this bill, which does not enhance the accountability of first nations governments to their people.

Essentially, Bill C-27 lays the legislative groundwork for the preparation and disclosure of first nations’ consolidated financial statements and disclosure of the remuneration, in salaries and expenses, paid by the first nations to their elected leaders. The bill would apply to more than 600 first nations communities.

As I said, the NDP opposes this bill, even though we are actively working to improve transparency and accountability at all levels of governance. First, we oppose this bill because it was imposed on the first nations without consultation and because it is contrary to the commitment made by the Prime Minister in January 2012 to work with the first nations. The approach taken by the government is a paternalistic one. In fact, the Conservatives have introduced other bills in this House that were drafted without proper consultation with the first nations.

Second, we oppose measures that would add further to the burden that the first nations bear when it comes to disclosure. We know that the first nations are already buried in paperwork. The former auditor general, Sheila Fraser, in fact, came out in favour of streamlining the tasks associated with disclosure of financial information that the first nations have to complete. She thought that the paperwork had gotten worse in recent years and pointed out that the first nations were already required to file a number of reports that were not even used by the ministers of the federal government.

In 2002, she estimated that four federal organizations alone required at least 168 reports a year from first nations communities, many of which had populations of less than 500. In a subsequent investigation by the Office of the Auditor General, representatives of Indian Affairs and Northern Development Canada revealed that in a single year, that department alone received more than 60,000 reports prepared by more than 600 first nations. That is an unbelievable figure. Why is the Conservative government demanding more and more of these pointless forms and reports?

Aboriginal leaders need to be able to devote their energies to the urgent problems affecting their communities: education, access to clean drinking water and housing.

Much has been said about the new requirements regarding disclosure of the salaries paid to leaders of aboriginal communities. Bill C-27 requires that the first nations disclose the details of the remuneration—salaries, commissions, bonuses, fees and so on—paid by the first nation and by any entity controlled by the first nation to its chief and each of its councillors in their professional and personal capacities.

I see a lot of hypocrisy in this situation. First, in accordance with the year-end financial reporting handbook, the first nations have to submit audited consolidated financial statements to the minister annually concerning the public funds they receive, including salaries, honoraria and travel expenses for all elected or appointed officials and all unelected senior officials of the band. In addition, the first nations have to distribute those financial statements to their members.

I say hypocrisy because, in reality, the average salary of aboriginal leaders in Canada is not exorbitant. We are talking about approximately $60,000 a year for the chiefs and $31,000 for the councillors. In addition, I should point out that in many cases, more is demanded of the leaders of aboriginal communities than of other public officials.

Consider the example of Nigel Wright, the Prime Minister's chief of staff, or his other close advisors. Although their salaries are governed by Treasury Board standards, the public has no access to information on how much they earn or the total amount they receive annually in expense reimbursements. Yet this is what is required of the elected representatives and senior officials of aboriginal communities.

How can the Prime Minister demand transparency from others and not from his own office? It smacks of a double standard. In my opinion, what is good for the goose should be good for the gander.

It is important to understand that under federal law, aboriginal communities already have to disclose their audited financial statements to the federal government, including the salaries, honoraria and travel expenses of the elected representatives of the band.

The first nations already publish their audit reports, and some regularly hold consultations with their members. In some respects, I would venture to say that the bill is even pointless. For example, should the government wish to change the way first nations' financial statements are presented, it could simply revise the funding agreement requirements. That is what the NDP Is proposing. Moreover, it should be pointed out that the first nations were not spared this Conservative government’s irresponsible cuts.

On this side of the House, we want to see the government work alongside the first nations in order to improve governance, which has not been done in this case. The Conservatives eliminated funding for institutions that support governance, including the First Nations Statistical Institute and the National Centre for First Nations Governance. Clearly, the government pays lip service to improving governance in aboriginal communities, while simultaneously doing away with the tools required for good governance.

It is particularly ironic that the government feels the need to lecture the first nations about transparency when this Conservative government is probably the most opaque in Canada's history. How can the government talk about transparency when it has introduced two omnibus bills comprising over 800 pages in an attempt to avoid parliamentary scrutiny? Indeed, I would remind members that Bill C-45 reduces the powers of the Auditor General and ensures that 12 government agencies will no longer be subject to any oversight whatsoever.

Moreover, I would like to remind members that Kevin Page, the Parliamentary Budget Officer, is having to take the Conservative government to court to force the departments to disclose the impact of the budget cuts on services and programs for Canadians.

Speaking of hypocrisy, let us talk about the Conservatives' lack of transparency around the approval process for the CNOOC-Nexen deal. From the get-go, the Conservatives have refused to inform parliamentarians and the public at large as to the impact of the takeover. We still do not know if CNOOC will protect Canadian jobs and the headquarters in Canada. Neither do we know the extent to which Canada will be able to enforce its own environmental standards. By studying this transaction behind closed doors and failing to specify the criteria they are using to determine what constitutes a net benefit to Canada, the Conservatives are demonstrating a shameful lack of transparency.

In turn, Auditor General of Canada Michael Ferguson is accusing both the Department of National Defence and Public Works of concealing the actual costs of the F-35 and circumventing the government's own procurement rules. Worse still, the Auditor General's report clearly states that the Conservatives knew the total costs of the F-35, $25 billion, and chose not to share that information with the House. The Conservatives can say they support transparency, but they show a great lack of transparency in the House.

If I have digressed, it is only to show how despicable it is for the Conservatives to give anyone lessons on transparency when they themselves show such strong contempt for accountability. We attempted to minimize the negative impacts of this bill in committee by bringing forward amendments, all of which were rejected by the government.

For these reasons, I am proud to oppose this bill in the House, and I look forward to answering hon. members' questions.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to join in this debate today.

I want to speak directly to the motions that were brought forward. First of all, the clause under debate is clause 11 of Bill C-27, first nations financial transparency act. This clause reads:

If a First Nation fails to publish any document under section 8, any person, including the Minister, may apply to a superior court for an order requiring the council to carry out the duties under that section within the period specified by the court.

The purpose of this clause in the bill is to ensure that anyone, including the minister, could ask a court to require a first nation to publish its consolidated financial statements and schedules of remuneration and expenses, if the first nation government failed to act in accordance with the provisions of Bill C-27. This clause is necessary, as it would provide an avenue of redress when a first nation fails to comply with the proposed act by failing to publish its financial documents.

As we all know, governments in Canada, whether they be the federal government, provincial governments or municipal governments, must adhere to legislation, which ensures that the financial statements of the government and its entities and the remuneration paid and expenses reimbursed to its elected leaders are shared with the public. There are different means of achieving this, but the end result is the same. The financial information relating to governments at every level in Canada are available to the general public; that is, governments with the exception of first nation governments operating under the Indian Act.

Bill C-27 would simply address this gap. In doing so, the bill would also address a situation that blurs the lines of accountability between first nation councils and their own members.

As we have heard, if a first nation member cannot access the financial information relating to his or her band, he or she can ask the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development to release the information. Each year, AANDC receives many such requests from first nation individuals looking for basic financial information relating to their community, which they should be able to access directly from their band. In addition to these informal requests for information, the department also receives formal complaints regarding the potential mismanagement or misappropriation of band funds and remuneration of officials.

Legislation that ensures this information is easily accessible to everyone would remove the minister from the equation in many of these cases, thereby promoting more direct lines of accountability of a first nation leader to its members. In short, the bill aims to shift the accountability bargain between first nation governments and their communities.

This is not to suggest that first nations are mismanaging their finances or are not accountable to their members. In fact, there are many examples of first nations that are not only meeting the basic expectations of a government but are exceeding them. Unfortunately, there remain many that are not, as these requests and complaints to the department demonstrate.

However, with the greater transparency that would be provided by the bill, many of these requests and complaints would likely not be necessary, as information would be publicly available. Furthermore, with the greater transparency around publication of remuneration and expenses, the speculation that currently exists on these issues would be removed, which would dispel the rumours around the salaries of first nation leaders.

All first nation leaders should be applauding this, as there are many whose reputations are unfairly tarnished by the actions or inactions of others.

Perhaps even more importantly, Bill C-27 would also mean that first nation individuals would no longer feel intimidated when they ask for financial information relating to their bands, and intimidation does indeed occur, as was described to the committee by representatives of the Peguis Accountability Coalition and others, just for challenging their governments about how their money is being spent or simply asking for copies of the band's financial statements.

Without clause 11 in the bill, first nation members who are unable access basic financial information relating to their own band would still need to challenge their chief and council for this information through the courts, creating a tense situation for many people. However, this is not the only reason why clause 11 of the bill is required.

An adequate enforcement mechanism would ensure that these documents are made available to all Canadians. Making sure this information is available to everyone would mean that all Canadians would see the reality of how first nations governments are funded.

During her appearance before the committee, Jody Wilson-Raybould of the AFN stated:

...having consolidated financial statements and disclosing revenue or investments does...actually recognize and expose the reality of what our first nations are having to bear in terms of supporting our own governments beyond the federal transfers....

Bill C-27 is a necessary piece of legislation. A key part of how this legislation would be successful is clause 11.

Bill C-27 would strengthen transparency and accountability by requiring that the audited consolidated financial statements and schedules of remuneration and expenses of the first nation be shared with the members of each first nation community, as well as the general public.

The clause under debate is clause 13 of Bill C-27, the first nations financial transparency act. This clause provides for administrative measures if a first nation fails to prepare and publish its consolidated financial statements, auditor reports and schedule of remuneration and expenses. In other words, this provision encourages first nations to comply with the act so as to avoid these measures being imposed.

Although we believe that all first nations governments will comply with this legislation, as it strengthens their accountability to their members, in the event of the refusal of a first nation's leadership to publish its audited consolidated financial statements, the first nations financial transparency act provides the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development three options.

The minister may require the council of the affected first nation to develop an appropriate action plan, ensuring the release of the financial information in a timely and organized fashion.

The minister may also withhold funding that would normally go to the first nation under active grant and contribution agreements. These withheld funds would be released immediately upon the publication of the first nation's audited consolidated financial statements.

Finally, the minister may completely terminate active grant and contribution agreements should a first nation refuse to provide AANDC with its audited consolidated financial statements.

There is nothing new here. First nations are already required to produce annual consolidated financial statements, which are audited by independent accredited professional auditors, and report the remuneration and expenses, in separate categories, paid to chiefs and councillors as part of their funding agreements with AANDC. Also, the measures being proposed in clause 13 of Bill C-27 are already available to the minister under the grants and contribution agreements.

As for clause 13(2), this clause provides that any monies the minister has withheld from a first nation for non-compliance of this act are considered a charge under the Financial Administration Act. This provision simply provides the mechanism by which funds withheld from a first nation can be paid to the first nation once compliance is achieved, even if the payment occurs in a subsequent year.

Section 37.1(1) of the Financial Administration Act states:

Subject to such directions as the Treasury Board may make, a debt incurred by Her Majesty for work performed, goods received or services rendered before the end of a fiscal year, and any amount due or owing under a contract, contribution or other similar arrangement entered into before the end of the fiscal year that remains unpaid at the end of the fiscal year, shall be recorded as a charge against the appropriation to which it relates.

Clause 13(2) of the bill is a technical administrative measure that allows for any funds that have been withheld under this act to be repaid, yet NDP Motion No. 3 proposes to remove all of these administrative measures. Without this clause, first nations individuals could continue to be subject to intimidation when they ask for financial information relating to their bands.

In conclusion, Bill C-27 is a necessary piece of legislation. A key part of how this legislation would be successful would be the provisions outlined in the clauses I have mentioned during this debate.

The House resumed consideration of Bill C-27, An Act to enhance the financial accountability and transparency of First Nations, as reported (with amendments) from the committee, and of motions 1 to 3.

Motions in Amendment

[Charmaine Borg, NDP, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to speak to Bill C-27, which requires every first nations community to provide the following: annual consolidated financial statements; a separate schedule of annual remuneration paid by the first nation, and by any entity controlled by the first nation, to its chief and each of its councillors in their professional and personal capacities; the auditor's written report respecting the consolidated financial statements; and the auditor's report respecting the schedule of remuneration.

The Conservatives are trying to teach the first nations a lesson about transparency. He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches. That saying is quite appropriate in my opinion because the government is very closed and not transparent and does not even want to provide crucial information to the Parliamentary Budget Officer, who needs it in order to be transparent with Canadians and tell them what the federal government is spending taxpayers' money on. The Conservatives are not even doing this much and they are asking first nations to do more. The first nations already have to submit more than 200 reports to the federal government, which is huge.

One of the most troubling aspects of this bill is that it directly affects the first nations. As an MP, when working on a bill that affects a certain group, I will consult that group. However, this is something that the government does not seem to understand. What does it mean to consult someone? It is not just listening to witnesses in committee, who do not speak for very long. It means going to see the groups, the first nations, before drafting a bill. In that way, they can say what they would like to see in the bill, what measures do not work and what will disadvantage first nations communities.

Consequently, we are very disappointed because first nations should be consulted and especially because consultations are mandatory under a UN declaration ratified by Canada. It is important that we honour our commitments. It is not just a matter of will; it is about meeting our legal obligations.

Another paradox is that the government wants to reduce the paper burden. Huge cuts were made because the government wants to eliminate red tape and increase efficiency. However, all those measures that the government wants to implement will require huge resources and result in a waste of time and money.

Right now, in our own country, people are living in crises and in appalling conditions. I am thinking of communities such as Attawapiskat, which the hon. member for Timmins—James Bay is defending so well in the House. These communities do not have schools, and they do not have safe housing. It is cold in northern Ontario and people are freezing in houses that are totally inadequate.

The government should tackle these issues instead. It should ensure that every young person—and I emphasize the term “every” because we are aware of the current situation—living in a first nation community can attend school. Going to school is a basic and essential need. Why are we not debating this issue? It is because this government's first bill on first nations seeks to impose transparency measures on them, without consulting them, without consulting those who will be most affected. The government is not dealing with critical issues such as drinking water and food. Incidentally, food is not available at an affordable price in northern rural communities. People must pay exorbitant prices for fresh food.

The government says it wants to eliminate red tape to increase efficiency. However, when other governments already have to file 200 reports and will have to produce more, the Conservatives do not even take into consideration the fact that this may impair these governments' ability to provide direct services to citizens who really need them.

My time is up. I will continue later.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, first allow me to congratulate the hon. member for Nanaimo—Cowichan for her work on first nations issues.

Bill C-27 concerns an issue that is not very familiar to many members of this House. I must admit that there is no reserve in my riding. In matters relating to first nations, I rely on my colleagues who have experience with this issue and on my own experience gained through discussions.

Just by chance, last Friday I was on the wonderful Kitigan Zibi Anishinabeg reserve in the beautiful Gatineau valley in the Pontiac, home to an Algonquin First Nation. The hon. member for Pontiac is doing excellent work there as well. As our justice critic, I discussed various justice-related issues with a number of people from that reserve.

I was able to meet some really extraordinary people, including Chief Gilbert Whiteduck who acted as both our tour guide and our spiritual guide, so that we could get a better understanding, even in that short time, of a number of things that are happening on that reserve. We also met councillors Caitlin Tolley and Bill Ottawa. I applaud Caitlin Tolley, a young woman of 22, who has become involved in governance on the reserve. I was very pleased to meet her and councillor Bill Ottawa.

We were also able to visit Waseya House and meet the front-line workers there, Lynn Buckshot and Sue Thran.

Meeting the chief of police was also very interesting. The police force is located on the reserve and controlled by band members. The chief, Gordon McGregor, and the officers are doing extraordinary work under rather difficult circumstances. We also met the director of health and social services, Robin Decontie.

Another extremely important meeting was with Bridget Tolley and Laurie Odjick, who are heavily involved in the issue of missing and murdered aboriginal women. They work tirelessly. One of them lost her mother in an accident that the police have still not finished investigating, perhaps because lions that escape reserves get more attention than any people there, especially first nations women. Laurie Odjick’s daughter disappeared six or seven years ago. These women will never give up until all the necessary investigations are complete. Where there is life, there is hope.

I am telling you about all this because all these meetings were held in complete transparency. These people are not afraid to show who they are. However, as a proud nation, they would certainly like to be consulted when we make decisions from on high, here in these hallowed halls but far from their lands. Here we appear to say that the first nations are as important as the anglophones and francophones across this country, but when it comes time to give them full self-determination, we constantly put obstacles in their way.

Everything I have heard in the speeches since this morning has made me shudder—it is as if I am watching the Twilight Zone, a program people from my generation might be familiar with.

The government members—in their speeches and questions—have spent the whole morning talking about transparency and accountability. This is ridiculous and surely cannot be coming out of the mouths of the members opposite—because day after day we struggle to get the Conservatives to be even the slightest bit transparent and accountable. It is as if these words are not even part of their vocabulary, except when they chose to foist them on others. It is always easier to point the finger at others.

It is not a negligible problem, nor a cop-out, as some members opposite have claimed—it is a major problem.

Everybody is in favour of the principle of transparency. Everybody is in favour of the principle of accountability. However, there is one thing that we are not in favour of—and it is not just a matter of style or appearance, it is about substance. If the first nation's right to self-determination is to be recognized, it must be respected and abided by. This also means consulting those who are affected.

Engaging and consulting are quite different concepts in the eyes of the law. We must not be taken for fools, as is this government's wont.

What frustrates me the most is that introducing this kind of bill on the financial transparency of the first nations suggests that the first nations are not being transparent. This perpetuates negative stereotypes that are bandied about on our radio stations, or among people who, like me—at least before this Friday—have never visited a reserve, have no idea what they are talking about and cannot stop mouthing off. They think that all the chiefs are lining their pockets, that people are getting the wool pulled over their eyes, that billions of dollars are being handed over, and that we have no idea what is being done with the money. They are perpetuating this kind of prejudice, these kinds of bogus and extremely negative rumours that remain etched in people's psyches.

Indeed, I would wager anyone in this House that if I ventured out into the street, I would easily stumble upon nine people out of ten who would respond negatively if asked whether they thought that the first nations on reserve are transparent. Ninety percent of those I asked would probably say that no, there is no transparency whatsoever. Why is that? It is because we are allowing this kind of stereotype to be perpetuated. It is extremely condescending.

When a government claims that a people form a nation, and in the same breath imposes its own methods, that certainly does not show a willingness to deal nation to nation with people to whom we owe a lot. In fact, as Chief Whiteduck told me, even Parliament is on their territory. People may not agree on ancestral lands, on what belongs to whom, but that said, up until now, discussions among the parties has always been Canada's method of choice.

One particular aspect of this issue is especially frightening. During our meeting last Friday, when we met to talk about human trafficking—kidnapping and prostitution—and about criminal justice on reserves, no one spoke about the lack of transparency of their band council. What they spoke about were the pressing needs, those that the Auditor General herself found a few years ago and made recommendations about. There are huge needs. Poverty rates are through the roof. There are economic problems.

On the one hand, we want transparency, yet on the other hand, we are leaving them in the poorest regions, in absolutely terrible conditions. Sometimes, these are conditions we would not even subject an animal to.

I look at the problems that the police chief raised during our visit, such as the drug problem. It worries me that the Minister of Health is authorizing certain prescription medications that will cause problems on our streets and even more problems on our reserves. However, there are other problems, such as the disappearance of aboriginal women.

I will conclude by reading something that was given to me by Ms. Tolley and Ms. Odjick.

I am writing today to express my concern over the lack of government response to the plight of missing aboriginal women in Canada. The statistics are shocking, 580 women have been lost since 1970, more than half of that number since 2000.

It goes on to say that while the Government of Canada announced $10 million worth of funds to address this issue in the March 2010 budget, families and communities are still waiting for justice. It goes on to say that it is time for the Government of Canada to respond to the needs of families of missing and murdered aboriginal women by ensuring access to healing and justice services, and that it is time for a national plan of action to end violence against aboriginal women.

I would add that it is time for the government to be transparent with first nations.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to rise in the House to speak about Bill C-27.

This bill is of particular interest to me, not because there are a lot of aboriginal communities in my riding, but because I put myself in the shoes of everyday Canadians who are concerned about the problems faced by the first nations, as described by my colleague, and consider the bill from that perspective.

Once again, the government foisted legislation on us without any consultative process. There is nothing new about what we are seeing today: it is common practice for the Conservative government to fail to consult those affected by its bills.

This bill is testament to the government's inability to engage in a consultative process before imposing measures. The bill will most certainly have an impact on those concerned— people who could have brought something positive to the debate. These people are better informed than we are as legislators. A consultative process enables us to put ourselves in the shoes of the people who are directly affected, who work and are active in the field on a daily basis. That is why consultations are important. The government has never bothered to hold consultations before drafting legislation.

As I said earlier, this government is often driven by a populist approach. It responds to certain specific events. In this particular case, newspapers reported that a few first nations chiefs had extremely high salaries. As usual, the Conservatives are reacting to very specific issues and introducing legislation accordingly. In my opinion, that way of legislating is not good for our country and does not help us to move forward. The government is simply reacting to small-scale events that have no broad application in Canada.

In our opinion, it is unprecedented that a federal statute would prescribe the disclosure of an independent source of income. I think this will hurt the first nations. The government claims that the bill is designed to help them and that its intentions are good, but the bill could have the opposite effect.

If that much information is disclosed, a number of businesses and companies working on reserve will have to make public more information than their counterparts. These companies will have to disclose this information to the public at large. This means posting information on a website for the whole world to see. Anybody who has access to the Internet, in Canada or elsewhere, will have access to the information. It will obviously give companies that have access to privileged information regarding other companies an unfair advantage. Businesses that are forced to publish more information will lose their competitive edge.

We believe that this will actually achieve the opposite of what the Conservatives want. This will not help the communities in any way, because those businesses will not want to remain associated with first nations, since that would put them at a disadvantage in Canadian markets. We think the opposite will occur: businesses will steer clear of first nations and the money will disappear. This means even fewer resources for first nations, which is definitely not a good thing.

Judith Sayers, who holds the national aboriginal economic development chair at the University of Victoria, gives an interesting explanation:

The fallout of this is that in an effort to remove a First Nation business from the need to publish its financial statements publicly, the business is too far removed from the First Nation and has no connection or accountability to the members of the First Nation. This whole provision needs to be seriously rethought with a business perspective as well as one of equality of other companies and businesses out there that do not need to publish their financial statements for the world to see.

We are talking about entrepreneurship, which sometimes gets the Conservatives' attention. Fairness for all companies in Canada is diminishing. Some companies will be subject to certain requirements, while others will not. It is simply unfair to those businesses.

The other point I wanted to address is the fact that accountability should exist among local governments, first nations and the population. We do not understand why this information should be made public. The goal of the bill was to make this information available to the members of aboriginal communities, not to the entire world.

This measure will disadvantage these first nations. How can the goal of this bill be achieved when countless aboriginal communities simply do not have access to the Internet? The government is missing the point here. It says the information will be posted on a website, but there are people who do not even have access to the Internet. I do not have the exact figures, but a large proportion of aboriginal communities, which are often in remote areas, do not even have access to the Internet. The government is not solving a problem. It is creating a false problem and appears to be trying to solve it in order to satisfy special interests.

I would add that accountability between the first nations and their members is already covered by section 69 of the Indian Act. Measures are already in place whereby the first nations must produce reports for the department and share the information with their members. This is already included in provisions, in laws. This bill does nothing but satisfy some lobby group, probably. The Canadian Taxpayers Federation often comes up. As I was saying earlier, because of one specific incident, the government seems to be trying to change the legislation in order to satisfy a particular group that took exception to some figures a few years ago.

In my view, this bill goes against two rulings by the Federal Court. As I was saying, it has already been said that there needs to be accountability. Two rulings mention it, including the ruling in Montana Band of Indians v. Canada (Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs), where the court found that first nations' financial statements were confidential information within the meaning of paragraph 20(1)(b) of the Access to Information Act and, accordingly, were not required to be disclosed. This bill contradicts federal legislation, namely the Access to Information Act.

We have a number of questions about access to information legislation. Will this be protected? The Privacy Act might be affected as well.

There was also Sawridge Band v. Canada (Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs). The court ruled that these financial statements are not confidential vis-à-vis the members of a first nations band, since the members of a band can have access to the financial statements of their own band under the Indian Bands Revenue Moneys Regulations.

This Federal Court ruling explained that these documents were already accessible to band members. In theory, Bill C-27 is not needed to gain access to this information. Laws and court rulings have already granted this access.

The government of a first nation must be accountable to its members. This bill is merely a reaction to newspaper articles. As I said earlier, the Conservatives like to react to specific incidents in this manner.

Members spoke about the salaries of first nations leaders, lumping them all together. However, as mentioned earlier, the reality is that the average salary of chiefs is $60,000 and the average salary of councillors is $31,000. It is important to note that 50% of chiefs earn less than $60,000 and that only 5% of them earn more than $100,000. I mentioned that the government was reacting to specific incidents that do not reflect the general reality in Canada. Only 5% of chiefs earn over $100,000. Here in the House, we all know our salary: we earn over $150,000. Should these chiefs, who are responsible for their bands, be making less than $60,000 or $30,000? This raises some questions.

Of course, the NDP supports transparency and accountability at all levels of government. We oppose useless measures that will serve only to increase red tape for first nations. I spoke about red tape a little earlier when I asked my colleague a question. The government says that all red tape must be eliminated because it costs too much and it is not good. However, there are two bills before the House that will increase red tape for unions and first nations: private member's Bill C-377 and Bill C-27, respectively. A government that prides itself on eliminating red tape in this country is thus doing the exact opposite, and creating red tape for specific target groups in Canada.

Unfortunately, the government did not work with us in committee at all. I said earlier that the government never consulted the first nations. When it comes to consulting the opposition, the government is even worse. The government always refuses to work with us.

We proposed 18 amendments that the Conservatives never considered. As a result, we are going to vote against this bill. I welcome any questions.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Kenora has been wrong twice now. Only he and government members would stand up and say that talking about the conditions of first nations people in this country has nothing to do with a bill that deals with remuneration and disclosure to first nations people. That is something else.

The legal reality facing first nations in this country is this. We are dealing with an outmoded Indian Act, a paternalistic, ineffective vestige of colonialism. Despite billions of dollars spent by the Department of Indian Affairs, we have poor outcomes. Bands are being forced to go to court repeatedly to enforce basic rights over and over again. The government has an appalling record of violating treaties and failing to negotiate treaties with dozens of bands in Canada that have never ceded their rights, as they have in British Columbia, or signed a binding treaty nation to nation with Canada. Given all of these serious critical facts, what do the Conservatives decide is their priority to deal with when we talk about first nations? They want to go after what chiefs and councillors make.

We have done a bit of research. The average salary for chiefs of bands in this country is $60,000. The average salary for band councillors in this country is $31,000. Fifty per cent of chiefs of bands in this country earn less than $60,000 a year and only five per cent of chiefs in this country earn more than $100,000.

Fifty per cent of first nations in this country have no Internet access, period. However, the Conservatives think the priority is to require bands to post financial information of what their chiefs and councillors make on their websites instead of being concerned with the thousands of first nations that have no access to the Internet. Really?

It is absolutely appalling to hear the Conservatives talk about the accountability of first nations. They sign trade deals negotiated behind closed doors and in secret, and then talk about wanting accountability for first nation bands. The Minister of Immigration spent $750,000 of taxpayer dollars to conduct media monitoring of his own image, but the Conservatives want to crack down on first nation chiefs to make sure that taxpayer dollars are not wasted. The Conservative government brings in omnibus legislation that deprives parliamentarians of our ability to properly scrutinize laws, most of which have zero to do with the budget, but the government wants to talk about accountability. That is absolutely a joke.

New Democrats are opposed to the legislation because it was imposed on first nations without consultation and it runs counter to the Conservative pronouncements at the time of the Crown-first nations gathering that they would strive to work together with first nations. The inclusion of reporting of own-source revenues under the provision of federal legislation is unprecedented. Practically speaking, the requirement to publish detailed consolidated financial statements of first nation-controlled businesses may undermine their competitive abilities and financial success.

Now while the stated aims of Bill C-27 are to increase transparency to first nation citizens, the requirement for public posting on a first nation website along with posting on the AANDC website, and the allowance for any person, not just a member of a first nation, to apply to court for the disclosure of a financial statement and salary report, is an absolute violation of privacy. The Conservative government took away the long-form census because it thought that it was a violation of privacy to ask Canadians to anonymously disclose how many bedrooms they have in their house. However,the Conservatives do not care about forcing first nation bands to publish information about their expenses on a website without any concern for their privacy whatsoever.

The NDP does not support this legislation. The bill would not do anything to increase the accountability of first nation governments to their people. It would apply standards that are greater than those for elected officials in many other jurisdictions.

New Democrats want the government to work collaboratively with first nations to improve governance. Instead the Conservatives are cutting funding to institutions supporting governance, including the First Nations Statistical Institute and the National Centre for First Nations Governance. Changes to how audited statements are presented to first nations do not need legislation. It could be a requirement of funding arrangements with the department as each first nation government signs.

I want to conclude with something that the Assembly of First Nations said:

We all know what the problems are–they are not exorbitant salaries–they are decades of paternalism that have placed many First Nation leaders in a position where they are responsible for implementing decisions, but where the ultimate power to make decisions rests with the federal government (i.e., under the Indian Act). Not only does this continue to be patently inappropriate, it remains a recipe for poor outcomes.

Instead of the Conservatives playing politics and doing the bidding of their buddies at the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, instead of making scapegoats of some of the poorest and most vulnerable people in society, why will the government not bring forth legislation to address the very real problems facing first nations in this country, and bring them up to the standards that every Canadian should expect?

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The opposition tabled three motions that dealt with the substantive elements of Bill C-27. The member has not just deviated but has gone completely off the map in terms of what the House intended or contemplated speaking to today. I would ask you, Mr. Speaker, to make a determination in this regard.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is almost trite to say but profoundly important to remember that governing is about priorities and choices. A majority government is in a unique position in this regard. A majority government can control the parliamentary agenda and research whatever issue it wishes. A majority government has access to full information and the resources of our civil service and departments. A majority government can put whatever legislation it wishes before the House.

For all Canadians watching today who care about what is going on in Parliament, the government has put Bill C-27 before us. This is what the bill would do. It would require all first nations, except those with self-governing regimes, to produce an audited annual consolidated financial statement and a separate annual schedule of remuneration that details the remuneration, salaries, wages, commissions, bonuses, fees, honoraria, dividends and expenses, including transportation, accommodation, meals, hospitality and incidentals, paid by first nations, and any entity controlled by a first nation, to its chief and each of the councillors in their professional and personal capacities. It requires an auditor's written report respecting the consolidated financial statements and an auditor's report respecting the schedule of remuneration. For each of these four documents, the bill would require each first nation to provide the document upon request to any of its members within 120 days, for the band to publish this information and documents on its website and to retain it on its website for 10 years.

Furthermore, the minister must publish the documents on the website of the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development. Failure of a first nation to comply with these requirements would enable any first nation member to apply for a court order to the Superior Court; any person, including the minister, to apply for a court order to the Superior Court; and the minister to develop a so-called appropriate action plan to remedy the breach. The minister may withhold any funds to the first nation or terminate any funding agreement with that first nation.

As all Canadians can easily see, the bill deals with first nations. I ask everyone to consider all of the issues facing first nations people on reserve and in urban areas today. There are poverty rates facing first nations that are dramatically above non-aboriginals. There are incarceration rates, both men and in particular women, far exceeding the percentage of population that first nations comprise in our country. There are reserves across this country without safe drinking water. There are reserves across this country without proper housing, where multiple generations of families, sometimes 10 to 20 people, are crammed together, living in houses built for five. There are reserves without proper schools in this country. There are substandard and fewer education dollars and outcomes for aboriginals than there are for non-aboriginals.

Across this country on first nations reserves and in urban areas, there are epidemics of suicide, drug abuse and domestic violence. There are aboriginal people in Canada today who are living in third world conditions. This past summer, Canadians saw the Red Cross sending emergency aid to Canadians living on a reserve in Canada. The conditions on the ground are deplorable.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to commend my colleague for his speech.

With regard to Bill C-27 currently before us, as the member said, we absolutely must not impose more restrictive standards on the first nations. The thing that strikes us is the notable lack of collaboration with the first nations when it comes to this bill. What is more, as the member said, this bill does nothing to address the real problem, namely that living conditions for first nations are getting worse.

My question has to do with the findings that the Auditor General released in June 2011. In her findings, she called for major structural reforms in order to improve the federal government's policies and practices.

What does my colleague think? Can he comment on this?

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am honoured to rise on behalf of my constituents in Surrey North to speak on Bill C-27, an act to enhance the financial accountability and transparency of first nations.

I will speak to accountability and transparency in a moment, but I would first point out that the bill is fundamentally flawed in failing to address the real issues that we should be talking about in this House, the real issues affecting our first nation communities, including in northern British Columbia, Alberta and across the Prairies to Ontario and the rest of the country. Those real issues are housing, jobs, education and running water for our first nation young people.

It is a fundamental flaw in the bill that we are not discussing these issues that have affected our first nations for many years. We should be discussing these issues in the House to improve the lives of our first nation people. Yet, the Conservative government has failed to address any of these issues that need to be addressed.

Before starting out with a bill, it would make sense to consult the very people it would affect. We have heard in this House and at committee that the government has failed to address the concerns of first nations by listening to them, the very people the bill would affect.

It is not just about listening, but also about making changes to the bill to improve accountability and transparency. As we heard in committee, New Democrats produced a number of amendments that would have improved the bill, yet the Conservatives did not want to listen to them or make the changes.

From the Conservatives we have seen no accountability and transparency. There was no accountability by the Minister of Agriculture when it came to the XL Foods debacle. We saw no transparency or accountability from the Minister of National Defence or the Associate Minister of National Defence when it came to the F-35s. My colleague from northern Ontario talked about the lack of accountability in Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada in his speech, referring to a “black hole of accountability” there.

I think that accountability and transparency has to start with the government being accountable to the taxpayers of this country. However, the current Conservative government has failed to be accountable and transparent.

Despite hearing about transparency and accountability from the other side of the House, we have Bill C-38 and now Bill C-45, the omnibus budget bills. The Conservatives failed to properly consult on these bills and to put them into the right committees to look at the issues affecting Canadians. I am taken aback when Conservatives talk about accountability and transparency, because the current government has not shown any of that when it comes to a number of issues that have been raised in the House.

There are a number of so-called transparency and accountability issues the government brings up in the bill. I want to highlight them and look at whether there really is transparency and accountability and if things are in place already addressing some of those concerns.

The bill would require every first nation, except those with self-government regimes, to produce an audited annual consolidated financial statement; a separate annual schedule of remuneration covering the salaries, commissions, bonuses, fees, et cetera, paid by the first nation and any entity controlled by the first nation through its chief and each of its councillors in their professional and personal capacities; an auditor's written report respecting the consolidated financial statement; and an auditor's report respecting the schedule of remuneration.

For each of these four documents, the bill requires each first nation to provide it within four months upon request of any of its members, and to publish the document on its website and retain it there for over 10 years. Here is the kicker: the minister must also publish the document on the website of the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development. Failure of the first nation to comply with these requirements of the bill enables the minister to withhold any funds to first nations, and the minister can also terminate any funding agreement with first nations.

We heard from the previous speaker about the minister arbitrarily having these powers and the ability to withhold money for the very issues that we need to address. We saw him last winter withholding money for three months from first nation schools in northern Ontario communities.

There is a whole bunch of requirements now being put on first nations to report this stuff. I think these onerous requirements are already in place, because we can get that information already. However, I do know that the Conservatives have to play to their ideological base and interest groups to make it look like they are actually addressing the issues of first nations.

Again, if they were really concerned about addressing the real issues in our first nation communities, we would be discussing housing for first nations. We would be discussing education for every child and adult in first nations. We would be addressing water issues in first nation communities.

I have listed a number of requirements of the bill that will put an onerous burden on first nations. I also want to let the House and the people who are listening know that there are certain mechanisms in place that already incorporate some of these things. The current policy based requirements include the fact that the majority of the funding arrangements between Canada and first nations are in the form of fixed term contribution agreements under which first nations must satisfy certain conditions to ensure continued federal contribution payments. The requirements for financial reporting are also set out in AANDC's year-end financial reporting handbook. Under the year-end financial reporting handbook, first nations must submit to AANDC annual audited consolidated financial statements for which public funds are provided to them. These include the salary, honoraria, and travel expenses of all elected, appointed and senior unelected band officials. The latter basically include unelected positions, such as those of executive director and band manager.

Therefore, we already have in place arrangements where first nations provide this information when they sign agreements with the government for the funds available to them.

New Democrats are opposed to this legislation, as it will be imposed on first nations. We need to work in collaboration with first nations to come up with a framework to address the real issues that are of concern to them and Canadians. This has been going on for many years. We need to take a look at these issues. We should be discussing first nations' housing, education and running water. These are the real issues affecting our first nations, yet the government has consistently failed to address them.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is a great honour to rise in this House to speak to the issues that are of concern to the people of Timmins—James Bay. I am particularly interested in speaking to Bill C-27.

I represent communities across the vast region of northern Ontario, and many of my communities are ground zero for the dysfunction in the relationship between the federal government and first nations.

In Kashechewan First Nation, we had two mass evacuations within one year. Not only the nation was shocked, but the world was shocked by the horrific conditions in Attawapiskat last year. Children in Attawapiskat, in a fight to get a basic grade school, had to take their fight all the way to the United Nations. We are talking about a very broken relationship. We talk about accountability. Accountability is a fundamental of re-establishing that relationship.

From my work within first nations and as a member of Parliament, I think that if the government were serious about addressing the fundamental dysfunction, it would start to shine the light of accountability within the Department of Indian Affairs, first and foremost. I have seen a black hole of accountability in that department. It shocks me that government after government continues on with the same broken old colonial system.

Getting basic numbers from Indian Affairs is an issue. The Conservatives talk about bands posting numbers. We are talking about budgets of hundreds of millions of dollars that have no accountability mechanisms to the people who should be receiving that accountability: the communities.

For example, I was trying to find out why we had such a lack of construction for schools. I was a school board trustee for the Northeastern Catholic District School Board, a little rural school board with some 15 schools spread over 400 kilometres.

Rural school board trustees have the same principles as trustees in a city like Toronto or Vancouver. They have to follow the rules. The rules are written. Literally they are the law of the land, because when children walk into a school, they have a set of rights. They do not even know what those rights are, but those rights are guaranteed in law—for example, the guarantee of a class size ratio, how much funding per pupil, how much funding to be set aside for teachers' salaries. The actual size of the classroom is written into law. Those things are all written in the laws of each of the provinces, and the funding is within ring fencing. Ring fencing is a fundamental principle of accountability.

For example, it would be impossible for the community of London, Ontario, to call its school board and tell the trustees that they are not getting a school, that the community is taking it because it has to give higher salaries to some of its staff, or that they cannot have the school because the community will be fixing some roads this year. That would be illegal.

That happens in the world of Indian Affairs all the time. The basic principle of ring fencing does not exist at Indian Affairs, because it does not want it to exist. What does that mean? Between 1999 and 2007, $579 million was taken out of the capital facilities and maintenance program at Indian Affairs. This was $579 million that would have been spent on schools, on water treatment plants and on housing.

It was roughly $72 million a year that was pilfered from these communities. Where was it spent? An answer to an order paper question explained that it was spent on management, on legal services, litigation, public affairs and communication.

While our kids were going to school on the largest, contaminated, toxic brown field in North America and being exposed to levels of benzene that caused liver cancers, skin cancers and bone cancers, Indian Affairs was taking that money and blowing it on spin doctors and lawyers. That is its lack of accountability. Until that changes, nothing will begin to move forward in these communities.

The Conservatives talk about Canadians having a right to information while they are telling the Parliamentary Budget Officer to take them to court if he wants to know how they are spending money. It was the Parliamentary Budget Officer who had to shine a light on this government's absolute failure to protect the rights of children.

Let us go back to the issue of child rights. Every child in this country has a set of rights, unless they live on reserve. Then they get whatever Indian Affairs gives them.

The Parliamentary Budget Officer looked at the situation of education on reserves. What was found was appalling, that management of school assets was erratic, haphazard and without any coherent capital methodology whatsoever.

What does that mean? It means that in half of the provinces where the federal government has jurisdiction, the capital assets are not even monitored. It is not known if the schools are open, if they are full of mould or if they are shut.

It is not known that the Conservatives had taken over $122 million out of school construction and spent it elsewhere. They said that half of the existing schools were in good condition, but they could not really tell because they had not investigated any of them. There were 77 schools listed as temporary structures. What the heck is a “temporary structure”? Is that a tent?

Canada is a signatory to international treaties on the rights of the child. Young Shannen Koostachin from Attawapiskat challenged the government. She asked why it was that because her skin was brown and she lived in Attawapiskat First Nation she was denied the rights that a child in Timmins or Toronto takes for granted.

The right to an education is not just the right to a school, which the children in Attawapiskat were not being given. I can say from a school board perspective that the right to an education is a plan for education. We have to have that plan and methodology. However, as the Parliamentary Budget Officer showed, year after year the government completely failed. It was not just this government. There has been a long-standing failure to address basic issues.

My community of Marten Falls is now seven years into a boiled water advisory, in a first world nation. This is a community that happens to be sitting right beside the Ring of Fire. I see Dalton McGuinty in Ontario saying that the Ring of Fire will save Ontario. Governments just cannot wait to get their money on those resources. I hear that from the federal government. Meanwhile, the people who are sitting beside the Ring of Fire have had to boil their water for seven years, and the government has just announced that it will cut off bottled water to the community because it is too expensive. That is a lack of accountability.

There was a plan this past summer in Attawapiskat to build 30 permanent houses. That would have gone a long way to alleviating the crisis in housing that still exists within that community. There was an agreement signed with Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, which does not sign agreements unless the financial wherewithal is there to pull them off. It was going to be a rent-to-own plan. It would have been a really good news story. This is what taxpayers want to hear. The government could have said that it has a rent-to-own plan with the people who are building the houses. The Indian affairs minister scuttled that deal. He scuttled it to punish the community because it made him look bad.

Under this bill, the minister gets to decide whether or not the government will withhold funds to a band that he decides he does not like. Let us talk about what that was like in Attawapiskat last January when the minister cut off education dollars to children. He used children in one of my communities as hostages to try to force the band council to its knees over the third party manager.

The third party manager finally went to federal court, which came out with a decision that the government's decision was indefensible and that it had no basis for the accusations it made against the community. However, throughout that, for three months, last January to March, the government cut off the funding to the children. That would be illegal anywhere else. That could not be done in the provincial system. If it was fighting with a town—

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, earlier I asked about the possibility of tabling the Kelowna accord. I realize I did not get the support to do that. However, it is also important for us to note that there was an aboriginal round table in regard to the Kelowna accord in 2004-05. It has a lot of support information in it.

Could my colleague talk about how important it is to take a better approach at consulting prior to introducing legislation? With Bill C-27, the consulting seemed to have been done after the bill was introduced.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am honoured to have this opportunity to speak to Bill C-27, An Act to enhance the financial accountability and transparency of First Nations.

Those watching this debate at home may be scratching their heads about the title of the bill. Canadians know that if there is one thing the government has failed on, it is accountability and transparency. The Conservatives attack every group in the country that does not agree with their right-wing agenda and they enforce transparency and accountability rules that they refuse to follow.

We only need remind ourselves of the $50 million spent in the G8-G20 debacle in the riding of the President of the Treasury Board. We are now debating the fact that the government spent millions, perhaps hundreds of millions, of dollars on a botched F-35 process that did not go out to public tender. The government has no credibility with regard to accountability and transparency. Canadians are right to be concerned about this. Certainly first nations communities have almost unanimously rejected the proposal before the House today.

A concern that we and many leaders in first nations communities have is the gathering of more power in the minister's office. We see this as a trend with the government. The Minister of Canadian Heritage is telling museums how to curate. The Minister of Citizenship and Immigration wants to be the sole arbitrator on who is allowed to come to our country and who is not. The Minister of Public Safety wants to look at emails. Now, with this legislation. the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development would be allow to withhold funds to first nations communities if these onerous accountability and disclosure rules were not followed the way in which the legislation would require them to do.

This is the kind of thing the government does routinely. Whether it is an NGO, union or first nations community, the government looks for ways to keep these groups under the burden of massive accountability and disclosure regimes in order to hamstring them.

There are real issues in first nations communities, which first nations have brought up with the government. They and we on this side of the House expect the government to work with first nations communities to solve these problems and not just impose arbitrary rules on them, rules that are already in place. First nations communities are some of the most transparent organizations in the country and the rules are already on the books. However, what is not on the books is the fact that the government has failed first nations communities. It has failed to discuss issues and engage with first nations communities. It cannot simply impose these requirements on communities that have their own systems and governance, which are extremely transparent.

I also want to discuss the fact that while the government refuses to address key issues in first nations communities, in some cases it requires the governance of those communities to, for example, post private information on websites. How does this enhance accountability, especially when the First Nations Regional Health Survey found that only 51% of first nations homes had Internet access and that dropped to 36% in homes with incomes under $25,000, the majority of which is on reserves?

That speaks to the issue of poverty and the lack of economic development and the lack of meaningful engagement on the part of the government with first nations communities to address the key concerns.

The government has told the management of band councils that it has to run through a million more hoops, put its information on a website in order to allow members to properly peruse the financial statements of first nations communities, when by and large the majority of the members on reserves would not be able to access that information online anyway. It begs the question as to how serious the government really is about this issue and what the real motivations are behind this kind of bill. We see this time and time again. The government uses one small example and casts a shadow over an entire organization, or an entire group or an entire nation in this case.

The Canadian Taxpayers Federation, another right-wing Conservative-friendly group, likes to make outrageous claims about first nations salaries. The average salary for chiefs is $60,000 and the average salary for councillors is $31,000. Fifty per cent of chiefs earn less than $60,000 and only five per cent earn more than $100,000. We are not talking about a system of financial abuse here, but this is the spin that gets put on this to justify this kind of legislation.

It is also important to look at this in the context of other legislative bodies in our country. For example, in Nova Scotia summaries of ministers' expenses are located at the legislative library for public viewing. In the Northwest Territories the government only publishes travel expenses of ministers and does not require salary disclosure of elected officials or senior public servants.

More important, the rules are already in place that very much adjudicate the fulsome transparency that is required, that first nations communities expect for themselves. These requirements are strong and muscular and they also require communities to make these disclosures available to members.

What is confusing is the government has not really answered a question. If the government's intent is to make these disclosures more available to members, then we can have that discussion. However, nowhere in this have we had that discussion, especially if the way the delivery of this public information is online when roughly only 36% of those on reserves can access the Internet. That is not a plan for more widespread access to this information.

The government is not really being serious about this issue and part of the reason is because the information is already available. Under the current requirements, first nations must submit to an annual audited consolidated financial statement for the public funds provided for them. These include salaries, honoraria and travel expenses for all elected, appointed and senior unelected band officials. The latter includes unelected positions such as those of executive director, band manager, senior program director and manager. First nations are also required to release these statements to their membership.

We have heard throughout the day that rules are on the books right now for proper disclosure, but that this is about making it accessible to the membership. First, the rules are already in place to make this information available and accessible to the membership and this legislation does not nearly address the key concerns of the communities.

The fact that the minister himself or herself would have the ability to arbitrarily withhold funds for schools, for social services, for water is unacceptable to us on this side of the House.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I trust that the time for the point of order will not be taken out of my time.

The truth can sometimes make people feel a little uncomfortable but that is the reality. It is not just about the need for more accountability and transparency within our first nations, the provincial governments or, moving on, the national government. We just need to look at this huge budget bill that we are talking about.

There are huge needs out there that need to be met around the whole issue of accountability and more transparency. We have seen that there is a need for more accountability and transparency with first nations but that is nothing new, just like it is not new for other levels of government.

This is where I will mention the Kelowna accord. Members will be familiar with the Kelowna accord. It is something agreed to under former prime minister Paul Martin, through months of discussion and dialogue with representatives and stakeholders from coast to coast to coast, which in good part was led by first nations themselves. Ultimately, a report which was agreed upon. A consensus that was achieved. Paul Martin, as the prime minister, took great effort in ensuring that our first nations communities led the dialogue in many different ways. As a result, we achieved the Kelowna accord.

People should be aware that within the Kelowna accord was an accountability framework. If we look at that accountability framework, it included a first nations auditor general. What sort of an impact would that have had?

I would argue that many of the concerns that people who live on reserves or off reserves have in regard to accountability, including the leadership of our first nations, would have been addressed through that first nations auditor general. This had support and it was encouraged through our first nations.

What did the government do when it had the opportunity to implement, for the first time, a first nations auditor general. It chose to tear up the agreement. It completely discarded what it was that the previous government had put in place, which would have taken into consideration the sensitive issues surrounding financial transparency and accountability.

Let us look at the whole issue of reports. The government seems to want to place the burden for reporting on first nations. On the surface one would say that there is an obligation for some sense of accountability and that part of that accountability means providing reports. However, what we also need to recognize is that the Canadian Auditor General has seen that the federal government has already put the burden on first nations in the number of reports it continues to demand that the first nations surrender.

If the government were genuine in wanting to achieve what it hopes to achieve with Bill C-27, it should have listened to what the Auditor General of Canada said in terms of easing the burden of some of the reports that are being requested. It should have taken that report, sat down with the leadership of our first nations people and come up with legislation that would have factored in what the Auditor General said. If it had listened to what our first nations leadership was saying, it could have brought forward better legislation for which the government would have received not only the support of all parties in this chamber, but would have had a much better base of support from the many different stakeholders.