Fair Rail Freight Service Act

An Act to amend the Canada Transportation Act (administration, air and railway transportation and arbitration)

This bill was last introduced in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session, which ended in September 2013.

Sponsor

Denis Lebel  Conservative

Status

This bill has received Royal Assent and is now law.

Summary

This is from the published bill. The Library of Parliament often publishes better independent summaries.

This enactment amends the Canada Transportation Act to require a railway company, on a shipper’s request, to make the shipper an offer to enter into a contract respecting the manner in which the railway company must fulfil its service obligations to the shipper. It also creates an arbitration process to establish the terms of such a contract if the shipper and the railway company are unable to agree on them. The enactment also amends provisions related to air transportation to streamline internal processes and certain administrative provisions of that Act.

Elsewhere

All sorts of information on this bill is available at LEGISinfo, an excellent resource from the Library of Parliament. You can also read the full text of the bill.

Votes

May 30, 2013 Passed That the Bill be now read a third time and do pass.
May 29, 2013 Passed That, in relation to Bill C-52, An Act to amend the Canada Transportation Act (administration, air and railway transportation and arbitration), not more than one further sitting day shall be allotted to the consideration of the third reading stage of the Bill; and that, 15 minutes before the expiry of the time provided for Government Orders on the day allotted to the consideration of the third reading stage of the said Bill, any proceedings before the House shall be interrupted, if required for the purpose of this Order, and, in turn, every question necessary for the disposal of the said stage of the Bill shall be put forthwith and successively, without further debate or amendment.

Fair Rail Freight Service ActGovernment Orders

February 1st, 2013 / 1:25 p.m.
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NDP

Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC

Mr. Speaker, I live on Vancouver Island and we have been in pretty desperate straits with regard to rail service. Our passenger rail service has not been in operation for a number of years because of the state of the tracks and the other infrastructure. Our freight service is in jeopardy as well, although it is still operating. However, on Vancouver Island it is an important part of our transportation infrastructure.

In some of our rural communities rail infrastructure is critical for our economy and the environment as well because it helps keep some of those trucks off the road. In Nanaimo—Cowichan we have something called the Malahat and several times a year that road is regularly shut down, either due to accidents or due to weather conditions. The rail service then is even more critical for moving freight. I wonder if the member could comment on that.

Fair Rail Freight Service ActGovernment Orders

February 1st, 2013 / 1:30 p.m.
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NDP

Mathieu Ravignat NDP Pontiac, QC

Mr. Speaker, the Pontiac has very similar conditions. We have two roads and in the winter they are often extremely dangerous. Automobiles and large trucks are competing on two-lane roads. Forestry products or wood is being brought far north and mining products are coming from the west. Next to these two roads are tracks that are no longer used. One would think that the safety of my constituents would be well served if the government were to invest in renewing those tracks and making sure that shipping could occur along them.

Fair Rail Freight Service ActGovernment Orders

February 1st, 2013 / 1:30 p.m.
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NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Joe Comartin

It being 1:30 p.m., the House will now proceed to the consideration of private members' business as listed on today's order paper.

The House resumed from February 1 consideration of the motion that Bill C-52, An Act to amend the Canada Transportation Act (administration, air and railway transportation and arbitration), be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Fair Rail Freight Service ActGovernment Orders

February 4th, 2013 / noon
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NDP

Matthew Kellway NDP Beaches—East York, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to stand in the House today to speak to Bill C-52 and to kick off today's debate on an act to amend the Canada Transportation Act.

Here is a word about the rail industry in Canada to set some context for this discussion of Bill C-52. First, rail transport is critical to Canada's economy, and 70% of all surface goods in Canada are shipped by rail.

The rail industry has to work for Canada. Under the current government, our trade deficit is ballooning, reaching nearly $2 billion in November alone. There can be no tolerance, because there is no room in our economy for the kinds of inefficiencies, excess costs and performance woes that characterize our rail system presently.

The problem is that rail freight customers are struggling to get fair and reliable services from the virtual monopoly of CP and CN that control Canada's rail system. Many rail freight customers cannot even get a contract for service from one of these companies. Those who do get them have to contract for unreliable services that are costing the Canadian economy hundreds of millions of dollars every year.

Rotting crops, idled plants and mines, missed connections to other forms of transportation, all of this is hurting Canada's exporters, damaging our global competitiveness and costing us jobs.

These issues affect a broad range of economic activity, from agriculture, forestry, mining and the chemical industry to the automotive industry.

This set of circumstances is not new. It has defined the industry for a number of years, frustrating rail freight customers so that 80% of them are now unhappy with their rail service. They have been demanding change: action from the federal government, legislation that would compel CN and CP to provide service agreements to shippers.

Change has been slow in coming, however. The rail freight service review began in 2008. We had the panel, its report, a mediation exercise, another report and then the promise of legislation from the minister.

However, it seems that it was the private member's bill, Bill C-441, of my colleague, the NDP member for Trinity—Spadina, that pushed the government at last to release the government bill we have before us.

This is a tepid response to a real economic problem. It does not cover existing contracts. It offers only a narrow, costly arbitration process for failed negotiations for new contracts. Freight customers' demands to include penalties in service agreements, performance standards and accessible conflict resolution were ignored.

It is a start, but much more needs to be done and we will support the bill through to committee for amendments to redress the weaknesses and omissions in the bill.

Before it gets to committee, I think it is useful to think through more carefully and thoroughly what opportunities are lost to our economy, to us, with our rail system structured and regulated as it is presently.

The current issues confronting freight customers stem from the fact that the rail industry in this country is a virtual monopoly. It was made that way in 1995 with the sale of Canadian National Railway, along with the tracks, to private interests.

What was made with the sale was a virtual monopoly of a $10 billion industry that sits at the heart of the Canadian economy. Quoting from a Transport Canada document on rail transport:

Of total Canadian rail transport industry revenues, CN accounts for over 50% and CPR for approximately 35%. Together, CN and CPR represent more than 95% of Canada's annual rail tonne-kilometres, more than 75% of the industry's tracks, and three-quarters of overall tonnage carried by the rail sector.

It is important for both our economy and our environment that our rail system run with full efficiency. The alternative to rail freight is on-road transportation by way of trucks.

According to the latest Environment Canada national inventory report, 1990-2010, most transportation emissions in Canada are related to road transport. Emissions from road transport rose by 37 megatonnes, or 38%, between 1990 and 2010. Of those 37 megatonnes, emissions from heavy duty diesel vehicles or large freight trucks rose by 20 megatonnes. That is a 101% increase.

It is worth noting here that the GHG emission intensity of freight rail improved by 24% between 1990 and 2008. It should also be noted that there remains plenty of room for improving the emission intensity for both freight and passenger rail travel.

We know that not all truck freight is replaceable by rail freight and vice versa, but this is a worrying trend. It is worrying not just from an environmental perspective, but it also speaks to the broader issue of congestion on our roads and the environmental and economic costs of that congestion. Clearly, the more freight we can move by rail, the fewer trucks are unnecessarily using our road network for freight transport.

The same obviously holds true for passenger travel. It is notable that while passenger kilometres—that is, passenger travel by motor vehicle in Canada—have been on a long upward trend, passenger kilometres by train have remained virtually steady since plummeting in 1990. Of course, it was in 1990 that VIA Rail lost over 45% of its ridership in the aftermath of the federal government ordering VIA to abandon certain corridors and branch lines. As a result, passenger travel on VIA fell from its peak of about eight million passengers per year in the 1980s to a ridership that has bounced around the four million mark since.

Efforts to increase rail service for passengers have been stifled by the virtual monopoly of CN and CP. VIA operates its trains on 12,500 kilometres of track, but it owns a mere 2% of that. Eighty-three per cent is owned by CN and CP, with CN owning the majority of that track. The remaining track VIA uses is short line infrastructure, which is owned and maintained to reflect the freight market that these tracks serve. Therefore, with virtually no ownership of track and no priority access to track, VIA Rail must negotiate train service agreements with these major freight carriers in order to provide its passenger service, and it finds itself in the unenviable position of sitting between a virtual monopoly and the succession of Liberal and Conservative governments that failed to recognize the enduring value and incredible economic and environmental potential of rail travel to the country.

This indifference of our government to the economic and environmental potential of rail extends well beyond freight-related issues and intercity passenger travel, right into our cities. This is certainly the case in my city of Toronto. Investment in transit infrastructure, particularly in the form of rail transit, is critical to unleashing the economic potential of Toronto's city region. Infrastructure, and transit infrastructure in particular, is a key component of a competitive business environment.

This is most certainly the view of members of the Toronto Board of Trade. They identified transit infrastructure as their top priority. The Board of Trade's 2011 annual global benchmarking study shows why it requires urgent attention and investment. Toronto finished 19th out of 24 global cities on transportation issues, including last place in commute time and, significantly, 16th for kilometres travelled by rail. There is near consensus that the absence of adequate transit infrastructure in Toronto and the Toronto city region is the biggest impediment to Toronto's global competitiveness. It has been estimated that the annual cost of congestion to Toronto's regional economy is $6 billion. That cost is projected to rise to $15 billion if no significant action is taken.

It is time to take significant action. The cost of the status quo is too great and unnecessary. It is one of the great mysteries of the current government. It continues to contradict its own marketing materials and brochures every day. It is emphatically not a sound economic manager. It stands idly while opportunities for economic growth pass it by.

Bill C-52 is just the latest example of any easy fix but also of a government that responds only when pushed, and only then half-heartedly, to opportunities to improve the economy of the country and the lives of Canadians.

Fair Rail Freight Service ActGovernment Orders

February 4th, 2013 / 12:10 p.m.
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Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, we acknowledge and recognize the importance of this legislation, particularly to our shipping industries. Over the last number of years, since 2007, they have been calling for legislation of this nature.

Could the member indicate what the NDP's position is in regard to the nationalization of the rail line, or CN or CP? He stated that he seemed to be in opposition of what took place in the 90s.

Fair Rail Freight Service ActGovernment Orders

February 4th, 2013 / 12:10 p.m.
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NDP

Matthew Kellway NDP Beaches—East York, ON

Mr. Speaker, today's issue is not about nationalization of rail lines. My speech is about lamenting lost opportunities and the sale of Canadian National under the Liberal government in 1995. It undermined great opportunities that we had to increase the competitiveness and efficiency of our rail services in this country both in terms of freight rail and passenger rail. We are stuck in these circumstances with passenger rail in particular, with VIA Rail not being able to establish priority schedules for passenger travel in this country. I note too that throughout the 1990s the funding was consistently undermined by the Liberal government of the time.

Fair Rail Freight Service ActGovernment Orders

February 4th, 2013 / 12:15 p.m.
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Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, this legislation proposes small measures when what we really need are comprehensive steps toward a national transportation strategy, within which rail is key.

I want to raise one issue with my colleague that has troubled me for a long time as an advocate for passenger rail. The member pointed out quite rightly that VIA Rail does not own its own tracks. It must get permission and lease them from freight. The increasing problem is that freight trains are getting increasingly longer, which means they can no longer use the sidings that are available. That means that passenger rail always has to go to a siding, because of shorter trains, and wait there while freight goes by. That is undermining the efficiency of passenger rail through freight.

I wonder if my colleague would have any comments.

Fair Rail Freight Service ActGovernment Orders

February 4th, 2013 / 12:15 p.m.
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NDP

Matthew Kellway NDP Beaches—East York, ON

Mr. Speaker, the future of transit in this country should be focused on making passenger transit more efficient. The environmental impact of that would be tremendous for Canadians. I would note too that the emission intensity of passenger rail over the last 20 years or so has improved by about 26% and there is lots of room for greater improvement for passenger rail.

It would be wonderful if there were a way to give passenger rail greater priority on the tracks, to work out some system, so that freight travel could also continue in a competitive and efficient way as well.

Fair Rail Freight Service ActGovernment Orders

February 4th, 2013 / 12:15 p.m.
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NDP

Raymond Côté NDP Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his speech.

I have noticed that my Conservative colleagues often turn up in big numbers for cocktail parties. It is easier for large groups to organize these kind of events, but that is not the case for a nurse from Saskatchewan or a small manufacturer.

The government has been dragging its feet on this, and I wonder what my colleague thinks about the way the government has been listening to small-business owners compared to big groups?

Fair Rail Freight Service ActGovernment Orders

February 4th, 2013 / 12:15 p.m.
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NDP

Matthew Kellway NDP Beaches—East York, ON

Mr. Speaker, the evidence before us suggests that the government has not listened at all well to the customers of these major freight companies. Eighty per cent of them are unhappy with the service they are receiving.

Bill C-52 only goes part way in redressing the concerns and complaints of the customers of CN and CP. The major freight rail companies seem to have had the government's ear in the drafting of the bill.

Fair Rail Freight Service ActGovernment Orders

February 4th, 2013 / 12:15 p.m.
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NDP

Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON

Mr. Speaker, every day Canadian shippers suffer from the consequences of getting unreliable freight services.

Farmers cannot get their grain, soybeans and canola delivered to the port on time, resulting in missed ships, upset overseas customers and rotting crops. Lumber and paper companies in more than 500 forestry dependent communities cannot get their products shipped or supplies delivered because of patchy rail freight services, affecting the livelihoods of hundreds of thousands of Canadians. Mining operations, the largest employer for aboriginal people, have to idle productions because they cannot get their coal and other minerals picked up on time.

The effects are real: hundreds of millions of dollars in lost productivity; and countless lost jobs and lower competitiveness for Canadian businesses in the global marketplace. Canada's farming, natural resources and manufacturing companies are innovative and hard-working, but they lose out against global competitors when they cannot connect with their export partners and disrupted supply chains.

Why is this? Why are our farmers frustrated about delayed pickups of their crops? Why are mining companies frustrated about promised rail cars that are never delivered? Why are paper factories frustrated about damaged rail cars on which they cannot put their products? It is because we have a classic case of market power abuse. The small lentil farmer in Manitoba simply cannot get reliable and affordable freight services from a rail company like CN, even though CN made an annual profit last year of $2.7 billion. Those lucky enough to get a contract with CN and CP have to put up with service disruptions, while many smaller companies cannot even get a contract in the first place.

Eight out of ten rail customers are unhappy with the freight services they get from the big rail companies. Around 80% of rail commitments between the rail companies and farmers and grain elevators are not fulfilled. The future picture is even more dramatic. Forty-five per cent of shippers say that their rail freight services have become worse over the past three years.

Why is the situation so bad? Healthy competition in a marketplace brings prices down and creates a balance between supply and demand. However, that is not the case with rail freight services. Rail freight customers are faced with the entrenched dual monopoly. Together CN and CP dominate with a market share of close to 95%. CN alone accounts for 57% of the market based on revenues and CP accounts for 38%. The remaining 5% is 49 short-line operators that haul freight to the 2 main lines.

Around 80% of rural shippers are captive, meaning they have no choice but to go with the one big rail company that operates in their area, a textbook case of a monopoly. They have no choice but to pay higher prices, no choice but to suffer the consequence of unreliable services and no choice but to endure scheduling changes without advance notice.

Canadians have no choice but to get a black eye on the international stage for unreliable export delivery. It is a marketplace that is broken, where legitimate demand is not countered by adequate supply of services. In the words of the Canadian Industrial Transportation Association:

Railway Freight is not a normally functioning competitive market....This is the fundamental issue underlying all the price and service problems encountered by rail shippers....It is dominated by the sellers.

By that, it meant CN and CP.

What about other modes of transportation? Why can rail freight customers not ditch the rail companies and go with delivery by truck or ship?

The Canadian Industrial Transportation Association said:

—the reality of moving to other modes in most cases is not practical in any reasonable scenario. Truck equipment may not be available in the short to medium term and volumes may be too great to transfer to truck....Over the past seven decades, the railways have lost significant market share to trucking and it is likely that most traffic that could take advantage of the trucking option, has moved to truck.

In other words, trucking only works for certain distances, depending upon the value and the volume of the freight. Just to illustrate this point, a train hauling potash carries an average cargo of 10,000 tonnes. That is the equivalent 385 semi-trucks.

Leaving aside considerations like pricing and delivery time, just getting such a fleet of trucks is simply unrealistic, in most case, when the rail company decides not to show up on time.

It is not just the shippers that are captive. Many of Canada's ports are as well.

East of Montreal to the Port of Halifax, CN is the only major railway. A similar situation exists in northern B.C., with CN being the only railway serving the port of Prince Rupert. Likewise, southeastern B.C. and southern Alberta are served only by CP. In parts of northern Ontario, the CN and CP main lines are enough separated that they are monopoly rail carriers in those areas as well.

Given this situation, any efforts from the industry and the government must focus on improving rail freight services, while making the pricing competitive so rail freight customers are not left completely vulnerable.

One of the core issues is that shippers have no effective way to get the contracts fulfilled, if they are even among the lucky ones who are able to sign an agreement.

In the words of the Western Grain Elevator Association, rail companies continue to deliver unreliable services, “because they can—there are no effective legal or financial consequences”.

When it comes to consequences for non-performance we, again, have a completely lopsided situation.

By contrast, shippers have to pay penalty fees to CN and CP if they do not have the promised volumes ready for shipping or if they fail to load the rail cars on time. However, it does work the other way around. If rail cars do not show up on time or if goods are delivered late, there is no problem for CN and CP. They get away with all the unreliable behaviour, or bad behaviour, without paying a penny, or should I say a nickel today? The shipper has no choice but to suffer the economic consequences caused by the rail companies. Therefore, we have a pretty desperate picture of Canada's rail customers.

What has the government done to protect them?

For years, it kept itself busy with talking and making promises. In 2007 the government promised an independent investigation of the situation. The much-heralded rail freight service review finally started in 2008. For almost three years, its experts gathered information, talked to shippers and rail companies, commissioned a much revealing survey and came up with eight key recommendations. The final report was tabled in early 2011.

The minister of transport at that time promised legislation. Then what happened? There was an election. After the election, there was more talking.

More than half a year after the final report, the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food decided it was not time for action yet, so he started the crop logistics working group.

Of course, the Minister of Transport did not want to be outdone, so he kicked off a mediation process between shippers and rail companies in late 2011.

However, as predicated, the mediation was ultimately fruitless because there was a complete imbalance of power. CN and CP were unwilling to make meaningful concessions during the several rounds of negotiations. Without yielding any concrete results, the chair, Jim Dinning, released a report in June 2012.

New Democrats have stood with the shippers along the way. I tabled my own bill, the rail customer protection act, using the recommendations of these various reports. I have repeatedly called on the minister to give rail customers fair, reliable and affordable services they need to be successful and to make Canada's economy stronger.

The shipping community has consistently been asking the federal government to fix major issues. They have been talking about this for at least over 10 years. One would assume, after all those deliberations and investigations, the government would present a rock solid bill that would protect rail customers, would level the playing field and would bring a balance of power to shipping customers. Unfortunately, while Bill C-52 is a step forward, it falls short of what should be accomplished.

How? While shippers would have the right to a service agreement in the bill, there is no model, guideline or template to back up that right. Shipping customers want a model service agreement that gives shippers and rail companies flexibility to negotiate, while starting with certain elements already on the table, like performance measurements and consequences for non-performance. They did not get one in the bill.

Instead, the bill has said nothing about what should be in the service agreements. Many shippers are already afraid they have won a hollow victory. They will sit down with a rail company, knowing they have the right to an agreement, but ever component would have to be a concession of CN and CP, which is a very tough place from which to start.

It comes as a disappointment for many shippers that penalties for non-performance are not included in the bill. Rail customers desperately need to include such penalty fees in service agreements to get compensation for service disruption and the resulting damages and productivity losses. The current bill only includes fines of up to $100,000 in the case of arbitration outcome being ignored by either party. That arbitration process is only available to shippers that negotiate a service agreement for the first time.

The other problem is that such a fine would be paid to the federal government, not to the customer. To act as a real deterrent, fines would have to be significantly higher. Keep in mind unreliable rail services are costing customers millions of dollars, while CN made $2.7 billion last year.

Another shortcoming of Bill C-52 is the brand new arbitration process is only available for shippers that are negotiating new contracts. Instead of offering quick and reliable help through conflict resolution to all shippers, Bill C-52 offers arbitration to a small group of shippers. The other problem is that the outlined arbitration process could end up being too costly for smaller shippers. To place the burden of proof on the shippers to demonstrate that they need rail customer services, that they are indeed captives, is indeed unfair and one-sided.

Bill C-52 applies only to new service agreements, not existing ones. That means many shippers will continue to be stuck with unreliable, unfair and unaffordable services. They will continue to be without any conflict resolution process in the case of violations to existing service agreements.

The bill does not even tackle the elephant in the room, which is pricing. For years shippers have been complaining about uncompetitive freight rates. It is common that shippers pay prices that are three times as high as the rail companies' variable or direct costs for services, just because shipping companies can get away with it. There is no choice for customers.

The government is wasting the opportunity to get rail customers not only fair, reliable, but also affordable and competitively priced freight services to give rail customers real protection from unreliable services, price gouging and a monopoly that costs the farm, logging and mining industries millions of dollars.

In conclusion, it is clear that federal action is needed to create a level playing field for Canada's rail customers and shippers, many exporters among them. They deserve fair, reliable and affordable rail freight services to compete and survive.

Bill C-52 is a step in the right direction, but it falls short of the hopes of many shippers. The bill would not cover all rate freight customers. Many would be left behind. It would not provide a model agreement, and customers would have to start from scratch. The bill would not compensate for bad service. What would be the consequence for unreliable service? There would not be much. The bill would not curb the monopoly power of the rail company giants, and it would not end price gouging.

In committee, I will work hard to improve the bill, in line with key customer demands. I look forward to working with the government and the shipping community to address the shortcomings of Bill C-52. I am optimistic that a stronger and more useful bill is possible. It is within reach to finally make rail freight services reliable and affordable for Canadian businesses.

This country was built on railways, and we owe it to the farmers in the Prairies, the paper mill workers in Quebec and the miners in British Columbia that we make Canada's rail system work again for all.

Fair Rail Freight Service ActGovernment Orders

February 4th, 2013 / 12:35 p.m.
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Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my hon. colleague for an excellent presentation on the things that are missing from the bill. I wonder if I can turn attention from the pricing, which she quite rightly pointed out is the elephant in the room, and ask about a concern I have that the private freight controllers, the companies running our freight, have been cutting back in a dangerous way on the personnel on board.

We no longer have people on board in the last car, the caboose, which used to be required under regulation, to monitor safety. I believe that the spill at Wabamun Lake, which the hon. member for Edmonton—Strathcona knows about very well, occurred largely due to the cutbacks of key safety positions of personnel on board freight.

It needs to be reliable and safe. We are having far too many derailments.

Fair Rail Freight Service ActGovernment Orders

February 4th, 2013 / 12:35 p.m.
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NDP

Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON

Mr. Speaker, the Transportation Safety Board of Canada has made a series of recommendations, some of which are on staffing. Others are on the need for advanced technology to be installed in rail cars. For example, voice recording in the locomotive cab has not been done yet, even though the recommendation is eight years old.

There has been a recommendation for a positive train control system that would provide an automatic braking system. If the conductor happened to miss a light, a track or a red light stop sign, the train would stop automatically based on GPS technology. Unfortunately, that recommendation is again being ignored by the minister. The United States made it mandatory that all trains have automatic braking devices for safety, but we do not have such legislation in Canada.

Therefore, both staffing and technologies should be in place to keep train services safe.

Fair Rail Freight Service ActGovernment Orders

February 4th, 2013 / 12:35 p.m.
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NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Mr. Speaker, following up on the previous question, I would appreciate more elaboration from the hon. member.

Clearly, the legislation brought forward deals with, to a small extent, the concerns of the sector that needs and wants to ship equipment, supplies and products by rail, including for export. Properly maintained and inspected rail lines are important also to those who are shipping their goods, because if there is a series of derailments, communities get very nervous about the shipping. As was mentioned, in the case of the spill at Lake Wabamun, which was the largest freshwater spill of bunker C seen in the history of North America, a number of things became very evident. One was that there simply was not proper response equipment along the line to immediately address the spill. That would then delay the startup of a train and so forth and create a further backlog.

Could the member talk about the need for bringing these matters together, about the proper maintenance of the rail and the increasing number of shipments of dangerous substances? I find it very interesting that there is wide public dialogue about the potential risk of shipping bitumen by pipeline, yet apparently a higher risk of--