Bill C-33 (Historical)

First Nations Control of First Nations Education Act

An Act to establish a framework to enable First Nations control of elementary and secondary education and to provide for related funding and to make related amendments to the Indian Act and consequential amendments to other Acts

This enactment provides for the control by First Nations of their elementary and secondary education systems. It establishes a framework to enable First Nations to exercise that control by administering schools situated on their reserves, by delegating the power to administer schools to a First Nation Education Authority or by entering into a tuition or administration agreement. It also creates a right of access to elementary and secondary education to persons of school age who are ordinarily resident on a reserve, establishes the Joint Council of Education Professionals, sets out the roles and responsibilities of the main participants in First Nations education systems and provides for the necessary funding. Finally, the enactment makes related and consequential amendments to the Indian Act, the Mi’kmaq Education Act and the First Nations Jurisdiction over Education in British Columbia Act.

First Nations Control of First Nations Education Act

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in 2012, 72% of first nations members living off reserve who had completed high school had a job, compared to 47% without a high school diploma. The unemployment rate for Canadians age 25 to 29 without high school, the majority of whom are first nations, is almost double that of high school graduates, 16.4% versus 8.8%.

Could the member for Palliser say why our government believes that the current situation is neither acceptable nor sustainable?

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the truth of the matter is that we said we were going to educate young people on reserve and then they would take their place in society. What we forgot to deal with was the fact that the curriculum that is offered in schools across Canada is not necessarily the curriculum that is offered on reserves.

We have to make sure we meld the two curricula together, so that both are captured and nothing is lost in the educational process for those students. That means bringing provincial curricula together with curricula for reserve schools.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the bill itself purports to give native groups the right to control their own education and yet it says, and I will read it aloud:

Subject to the regulations, the council of a First Nation is to offer English or French as the language of instruction and may, in addition, offer a First Nation language as a language of instruction.

My question for the member is this, would this then limit the ability of a first nation to offer native language as the only language of instruction for young children as a way of immersing them in their culture and language, as they do in several first nation schools around the country? This would therefore become illegal by this legislation.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Mr. Speaker, across Canada instruction occurs in either English or French. There are options for immersion programs in French. Hutterite colonies teach German in an immersion setting after the regular school year. Right now, most schools on reserve teach their own language in kind of an intermittent fashion without prescribed times of attendance, as a rule. It is something that has grown with the reserve.

Is there a better way to do it? There probably is if we all sit down with the chief and the council and design a program that could start in September and finish in June that would mesh with English and/or French. There are ways to combat that, but we simply have not addressed that. I really cannot believe that we get stopped and cannot move forward. I think we can. We just have to listen to each other and make sure that when we go back to the table, we are prepared to implement what we heard being asked for implementation.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Before we resume debate with the hon. member for Kootenay—Columbia, I will let him know there are about 13 minutes remaining before we wrap up debate on government orders. Of course, any unused time out of the 20 minutes he has will be taken up when the House next resumes debate on the bill.

The hon. member for Kootenay—Columbia.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am very happy to rise in the House today in support of Bill C-33, First Nations Control of First Nations Education Act.

Bill C-33 is the product of decades of dialogue and study. It was shaped by the unprecedented and extensive consultations our government held over the past 15 months with hundreds of first nations leaders, educators, parents, and community members across the country. Our government heard the concerns raised about first nations education and responded with a commitment to work with the Assembly of First Nations and other first nations leaders to create a better education system for first nations students. First nations control of first nations education means that first nations have the mechanism that will help them to strengthen accountability for results for their students.

I want to talk specifically about the accountability tools and measures that the act would help provide to first nations parents and communities. Across Canada and around the world, parent involvement in education at home and in schools leads to higher academic performance and higher graduation rates. Parent and community involvement is a central feature of the long-standing call for first nations control over first nations education. In fact, parents and communities can play a large role in the success of the school and its students.

Clause 25 of the bill legislates a voice for parents and community members, in particular elders and youth, in the development of school policies and programs, particularly those related to first nations languages and cultures.

We know that children benefit when parents and communities participate in the decision-making of the overall management and daily operations of education systems. For first nations, encouraging formal and informal involvement in education is not only a way to support student success, a worthy goal in itself, but also to integrate culture and languages into curriculum and school activities. Our government has seen the benefit this brings to individual students and to the community as a whole.

The first nations of the Treaty 4 territory in southeastern Saskatchewan is just one example. Community development and participation are the starting point for every aspect of the Treaty Four student success program, which promotes literacy and numeracy, and encourages children to stay in school. Involving first nations elders, leaders, parents, educators, youth, culture, language, and traditional values are as fundamental to the program as reading and writing. Local involvement increases local control.

The first nations control of first nations education act would do exactly what its name suggests. It would provide authority to first nations leaders, elders, and parents where education is concerned. Under the proposed legislation, first nations would choose their governance models and control their systems of education with the benefit of stable and sustainable statutory funding.

On February 7 of this year, the Prime Minister announced the historic agreement between the Government of Canada and the Assembly of First Nations to proceed with the final drafting and introduction of the first nations control of first nations education act.

The Prime Minister stood with the national chief of the Assembly of First Nations and announced $1.9 billion in new funding through three streams: statutory funding with an unprecedented rate of growth, transitional funding to support the new legislative framework, and funding for long-term investments in on-reserve school infrastructure.

All of this funding would be in addition to the $1.55 billion that our government already provides to first nations for education on an annual basis.

Furthermore, the new funding would be subject to a 4.5% escalator that replaces the 2% funding cap that the Liberals put in place. This would ensure that funding for first nations education is stable, predictable, and sustainable for years to come.

These statutory funding provisions meet one of the five conditions for success outlined by the Assembly of First Nations for education systems that are grounded in first nations' languages and cultures. As indicated by the AFN in a recently published analysis, the rest of the bill meets all the other conditions.

In the words of the National Chief of the Assembly of First Nations, this act means getting the Minister of Indian Affairs “out of our lives” on education as well as having fair funding and oversight that first nations themselves design.

As the National Chief indicated, part of getting the minister out of first nations' lives when it comes to education means that it would be up to first nations to decide for themselves whether they want to operate their own schools, join a first nation-led education authority, or enter into an agreement with a provincial ministry of education. Each first nation would determine which governance option would best meet the educational needs of their students.

Regardless of the governance structure under which they operate, every school would be accountable to parents, communities, and students. This would be in contrast to the current approach, which burdens first nations with reporting requirements to Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada.

Under this bill, the chosen educational authority would be ultimately accountable and would have the responsibility to ensure that the education provided to the students is in accordance with the standards and regulations outlined in this act.

The joint council of education professionals would be composed of professionals recognized for their knowledge and expertise in first nation education. It has been alleged that this council would be appointed solely by the minister and be used as a vehicle for unilateral control. On the contrary, half of the joint council membership would be made up of individuals selected by the AFN, and the minister would be required to seek its advice in a number of prescribed circumstances.

Our government has heard from parents and first nations that they need to participate in the development of regulations and standards. Our government and the Assembly of First nations have agreed to collaborate on the development of necessary regulations. In fact, the joint council would consult with first nations and provide important advice both to the minister and to first nations on regulations.

First nations would have the authority to build on the proposed minimum standards required for schools and students, with input from parents and communities. The act would establish five core standards: access to education, a recognized certificate or diploma, certified teachers, a minimum number of instructional hours and instructional days, and transferability of students between systems without penalty. All other decisions on standards would be made by first nations, which would control schools.

The rigour of the standards in this proposed legislation would ensure that first nation parents would know that their children were receiving a quality education, while the flexibility would reinforce first nation control and encourage incorporation of cultural and language teaching as each first nation sees best.

Going to school is an essential experience of childhood. It is important that parents and communities feel confident in the quality of education their child receives. That is why our Conservative government believes that parents and communities need to have a strong role in creating a school environment that respects and reflects community values.

Throughout the consultation to develop this proposed legislation, first nations youth and parents made it clear that education was more than a piece of paper or a path to a job. Education is fundamental to nationhood and identity. Students want to create a future where they can access the kind of education that leads to a successful life, not only for themselves but also to support their families and contribute to their communities.

This bill recognizes the ability and responsibility of first nations to educate their students. It recognizes the importance of treaty and aboriginal rights, which are protected by the Constitution of 1982. Bill C-33 would support accountability to parents and communities. This would contribute to more children and youth succeeding at school and in life.

In my constituency of Kootenay—Columbia, the Ktunaxa nation is a proud nation that has some of its education on reserve, starting with grades 1 to 6, and it is starting to reintegrate its language. That is one of the most important parts of this entire bill, for first nations to be able to integrate their own language and feel proud about their history and language, and to be able to pass that on from generation to generation. It is something that has been missed, and this bill would capture that important part of first nations education.

With that, I look forward to any questions.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We will have to leave those questions for another time. In fact, the hon. member will have precisely ten minutes available for questions and comments, should he wish it, when the House next resumes debate on this question.

It being 5:30 p.m., the House will proceed to the consideration of private members' business as listed on today's order paper.

The House resumed from May 1 consideration of the motion that Bill C-33, An Act to establish a framework to enable First Nations control of elementary and secondary education and to provide for related funding and to make related amendments to the Indian Act and consequential amendments to other Acts, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is my privilege to rise to speak to Bill C-33, an act to establish a framework to enable first nations control of elementary and secondary education and to provide for related funding and to make related amendments to the Indian Act and consequential amendments to other acts.

In speaking to this bill, it is incumbent upon everyone to remember Shannen's Dream. I feel the emotion coming. Anybody in this place who has had the opportunity to meet with the family of Shannen Koostachin from Attawapiskat and experience the incredible energy and drive of the children from her community who have continued her campaign cannot help but feel a little emotional in discussing this legislation.

Those in the House are aware of Shannen's campaign. Shannen campaigned for every aboriginal child to have equal access to quality education in this country. It was a pretty reasonable campaign. Sadly, Shannen was killed in an accident driving from her community to high school, because she could not receive quality education in her own community.

Quotes from Shannen during her campaign that have led schoolchildren across this country for years toward the provision of funding and guarantees and the ability of first nations to deliver their own programs include these: She campaigned to “Help end the underfunding of First Nations Schools”, and, “School should be a time for dreams. Every kid deserves this”.

I have to share with members that when I had the privilege of being the aboriginal affairs critic for the NDP, I had the honour of receiving a cardboard schoolhouse made by elementary school children in this province. It was filled with letters they had written to the Prime Minister begging him to extend equal opportunities for quality education to aboriginal children so that they would have the same privileges as all other children in Canada. We actually managed to get approval and we delivered it to the Prime Minister's Office. It was an incredible moment in time. Since then, I have had the opportunity, with my colleagues, to attend many of the occasions when Canadian children have spoken out on behalf of extending equal rights to aboriginal children.

We have also often heard the statement by the National Chief of the Assembly of First Nations. It is a very sad commentary on the long-standing state of education for aboriginal children. It is that more aboriginal children are incarcerated than graduate from high school.

In speaking to Bill C-33, it is important at the outset to set the stage for assessing this bill and whether it respects critical overriding rights and responsibilities. I will be concentrating my comments on Bill C-33 on two factors. First is the extent to which the government has met its legal and constitutional duty to consult. Second are comments made by Alberta first nations that they shared with me and that they requested I share with this place.

I will concentrate my comments of first nations' overriding right to establish and deliver their own education programs, within their cultural and language traditions, for their children and their communities and to determine if those rights and opportunities have been accorded. My colleagues in the official opposition and I hold firm with the position that we must uphold the Constitution and international obligations and commitments as well as our personal commitment to first nations that we will respect their right to assert self-government and to plan and deliver their own education program for their own families.

It is our duty in this place, all of us who are duly elected, to ensure that aboriginal peoples have access to education, can determine their own education systems, and can practise their traditional and cultural beliefs. Those rights, and our obligations, are specified, as I mentioned, in a number of international conventions and UN treaties. For example, the Convention on the Rights of the Child states, in article 28:

States Parties recognize the right of the child to education, and with a view to achieving this right progressively and on the basis of equal opportunity, they shall, in particular:

(a) Make primary education compulsory and available free to all...

Article 29 states:

1. States Parties agree that the education of the child shall be directed to: ...(c) The development of respect for the child's parents, his or her own cultural identity, language and values, for the national values of the country in which the child is living, the country from which he or she may originate, and for civilizations different from his or her own;

We on this side of the House were delighted when the government finally came around and agreed to assent to the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. However, in so doing, what has the government committed to undertake?

Article 14 states:

1. Indigenous peoples have the right to establish and control their educational systems and institutions providing education in their own languages, in a manner appropriate to their cultural methods of teaching and learning.

2. Indigenous individuals, particularly children, have the right to all levels and forms of education of the State without discrimination.

3. States shall, in conjunction with indigenous peoples, take effective measures, in order for indigenous individuals, particularly children, including those living outside their communities, to have access, when possible, to an education in their own culture and provided in their own language.

Article 15 states:

1. Indigenous peoples have the right to the dignity and diversity of their cultures, traditions, histories and aspirations which shall be appropriately reflected in education and public information.

Articles 18 and 19 speak to the duty of the government and the right of aboriginal peoples to government their own matters.

Article 18 states:

Indigenous peoples have the right to participate in decision-making in matters which would affect their rights, through representatives chosen by themselves in accordance with their own procedures...

Article 19 states:

States shall consult and cooperate in good faith...in order to obtain their free, prior and informed consent before adopting and implementing legislative or administrative measures that may affect them.

It is pretty clear what the obligations of the government are, what commitments it has undertaken, and what the associated rights and opportunities are for first nations. Included among those is the duty of the federal government to consult and accommodate aboriginal people's views, perspectives, and interests.

In implementing the support of first nations education, the federal government has an overriding duty to advance consultation and to accommodate aboriginal rights and titles. This is required under the Canadian Constitution and under provisions of the historic and modern treaties. That duty applies to any federal policy, law, or regulation-making process that may potentially or directly impact the rights and titles of first nation peoples.

The matter to consider is this: do the substantive measures set forth in Bill C-33 actually deliver on the rights, principles, and duties ascribed to in the preamble of the act?

Well, what does the preamble hold out? I think it is very important for us to consider it and not just the substantive provisions. A preamble sets forth, to those who are affected by the law, exactly what the legislation intends to do. It states the intent.

It is noteworthy that the government, right at the outset, notes the failings in the establishment and running of the residential schools and the need to seek partnerships with first nations in the spirit of reconciliation.

I might share here that I had the privilege several times of participating in the truth and reconciliation proceedings. At the national conclusion assembly in Edmonton a few months back, I was struck very personally by the fact that in a residential school on the edge of my city, children from as far away as the Queen Charlotte Islands were transported by train and held in that school with no contact with their friends or families for up to a year and longer. That was while I was attending elementary school.

To hear first-hand of the abuses that went on has made me all the more dedicated to making sure that their rights are respected.

I will mention some of the provisions in the preamble. In doing so, I highly recommend to all the members of this place that it is absolutely critical that they carefully read this preamble. This is what the government is holding out that it is about to deliver on behalf of the first nations people of Canada.

For example:

Whereas First Nations education systems should be designed and implemented in accordance with the principle that First Nations have control of their children’s education;

Whereas First Nations must receive support that enables them to exercise their rights and fulfill their responsibilities relating to the elementary and secondary education provided to their children;

Whereas First Nations children attending schools on reserves must have access to education that is founded on First Nations history, culture and traditional values and enables them to participate fully in the social, economic, political and educational advancement of First Nations;

On it goes, making a variety of undertakings.

An equally important one is:

Whereas First Nations education systems must receive adequate, stable, predictable and sustainable funding that provides for the teaching of First Nations languages and cultures as well as for education support services;

Whereas elementary and secondary education is an essential part of lifelong learning;

Continuing my presentation, I will make reference to those specific undertakings by the government.

As I mentioned, I feel that in speaking to the bill, it not be my personal opinion; I am obligated to reach out to first nations to find out their views, both about the process of developing this legislation and about what actually would be delivered under this legislation. I have continued to dialogue with first nations in Alberta particularly as well as with those across the country, in co-operation with my colleagues.

I spoke only yesterday with Alberta regional chief Cameron Alexis and also with chiefs from Treaty 8, and I have reviewed materials they have prepared and letters they have submitted to the Government of Canada.

What views have they expressed about respect for first nations' determination of the education system, whether adequate funding is provided, and whether we are finally enabling their education system to incorporate first nation language, culture, and traditions?

I was advised by regional chief Alexis that he was directly in the process of continuing to consult Treaty 6, 7, and 8 first nations, who are still going through the process of trying to understand and review the bill for many of the chiefs in isolated communities and their community members. It is an extremely complex process. They are struggling to comprehend the implications of the provisions and whether they actual address their priorities.

What are the issues they have raised? The top issue, which has been raised by my colleagues in the House, is the lack of adequate consultation in the very drafting of the bill. This is coming from first nations themselves. It is not a determination I have made.

Chief Alexis shared that their remains considerable contention over whether the government has fully addressed the long-standing issue of first nations' access to quality education. First and foremost, he expressed strong concern that the first nations themselves were not accorded adequate opportunity for consultation and necessary accommodation, as is the duty of the crown.

Chief Alexis stated that the consultations were held only in major centres. I heard this a year back when I met with a number of the chiefs and councils. They are concerned that no consultations were held in any of the first nation communities themselves, with their membership, particularly in isolated communities.

Many first nations are still struggling with comprehending the bill. In many cases, there has been a change in leadership and council, and they feel responsible for ensuring that this legislation actually represents the rights and title of their members.

Regional chief Alexis is requesting that Bill C-33 not be tabled until after the summer break to provide a more reasonable time period for the individual first nation leaders to consult their communities on the provisions of the bill. He has already requested that Parliament take the bill out to the communities for consultation. I anticipate that the minister and the government will be hearing this message from the individual chiefs.

What have some of the individual chiefs said about this legislation? Grand Chief Kappo of Treaty 8 has stated:

We are looking for something that is developed in the true spirit of co-operation and co-development, we are willing to work with the Minister on anything that will be developed, from the ground up, into a system that will help our children meet our educational goals. The old way of including First Nations input as a footnote to the process hasn't been successful in the past and won't work moving into the future.

That statement was issued April 16 of this year, so clearly they are still very dissatisfied with the consultation process.

What are some of the substantive concerns that have been identified to date by the regional chief and the individual chiefs and councils from Treaties 6, 7, and 8? One of the critical concerns is around the transfer of governance. A key demand of these first nations, and all first nations, has been to gain back control of their educational programs from the federal government. There are substantial concerns expressed by the regional chief, the grand chief, and the individual chiefs, including Chief Rose Laboucan, who is the Treaty 8 chief responsible for education. They are concerned that the minister still retains substantial control.

I would like to share some of their comments. Chief Rose Laboucan has stated:

We already have a process in the works in Alberta and it has been in place for some time. Now that we have heard this announcement, we are wondering what this is going to mean for our children. It sounds promising but we hope that it is not another historic broken promise. Treaty 8 nations in Alberta have been working on a grassroots education process for years already.

Treaty 8 First Nations of Alberta say that, “One of the concerns was to have First Nations control over First Nations Education”. On the matter of controlling their own system, Grand Chief Kappo said:

They have definitely changed the name [of the act] but the core of it remains the same as before. Ultimate authority to dissolve, change or transfer any entity that handles First Nation education still resides with the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs.

He goes on to say, “While an oversight board has been created, they simply advise the Minister, he is still able to unilaterally do anything he wants in any given on-reserve school”.

Those are concerns of the first nations themselves.

I heard similar concerns from the regional chief regarding the joint council for education. The concern is that there is absolutely no assurance of who would be appointed to this advisory body, the power to appoint rests singularly with the minister and cabinet and there is absolutely no requirement that there be any first nations representatives sitting on the council.

The second concern goes to the issue of transfer of liability. The regional chief has expressed very strongly to me a deep concern that, similar to the Safe Drinking Water Act that was recently enacted, Bill C-33 transfers liability to first nations to deliver quality education programs and provide safe schools, absent any guarantees of future funding support from the federal government that has that mandate and responsibility to be financing those quality schools. He added that, while the bill mentions comparable programs, there is no specified criteria on how to determine that.

Third, there is great concern expressed by Treaties 6, 7, and 8 on the delay in the funding increases. The substantially less funding support for first nations education compared to provinces and territories has been long-standing and reprehensible. The government has promised increased funding, but on what basis is this figure calculated? Does the increase adequately consider and factor in the rapid increase in aboriginal population and the commitment in the preamble to lifelong learning, where first nations adults wish to go back to school and continue their education, or address the potential for the return of first nations members to their community to finish their education? What is the timeline for ensuring all first nations children would have access to quality education in safe schools and are accorded equal opportunity?

The Alberta first nations are raising a reasonable concern. They are asking why the increase in funding is being delayed until 2016, in other words, until after the next election. They stated additional annual funding is needed now. Treaty 8 First Nations of Alberta say that, “Another outstanding concern is around statutory funding and funding to support Indigenous languages and cultures. However, the act, only states the portion of funding First Nations would already be receiving must go towards language and culture”.

I will close with a quote from Grand Chief Kappo. He stated:

It's not new support. We are getting the same amount of funding, still lower than our provincial counterparts, and all they have done is added a section to the act that says we have to spend part of that same funding to teach language and culture. They have just painted an old car a new colour.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as I am listening this morning I am reminded that some of us are far more aware than others in this country of the havoc that the policies of the New Democrats continually wreak when they get a chance to implement them. Once again this morning we hear them being completely out of reality. I would argue that they are once again demonstrating that they do not have the capacity to govern responsibly.

On Wednesday, their aboriginal critic stated that they are opposing this bill. This is a bill that is aimed at lifting on-reserve high school graduation rates, which are less than half of those in the rest of Canada. Certainly, any reasonable Canadian cannot possibly agree that the status quo is acceptable or sustainable. I do not think we can do that.

Our government has brought forward a bill that would finally address this issue. It would give first nations control over their education, and it addresses the five conditions that the chiefs laid out in their special assembly in Vancouver, yet every step of the way the NDP members have chosen to oppose this bill.

I want to ask the opposition this. Why do they continue to support the status quo? How will they explain that to this next generation of first nations students who are trying to get through school?

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have no trouble whatsoever standing by the comments that I have shared with the House today. It is my first and foremost obligation to represent the perspectives of the first nations peoples. I am obligated to do that by the Constitution. I am obligated to do that in keeping with the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and the UN Declaration of the Rights of the Child. Perhaps the members on the other side do not feel that they actually have to comply with international obligations that they sign on to.

I have simply shared with the House today what the first nations leaders in my jurisdiction are saying. The members on the other side can either respect that perspective or choose to ignore that perspective. I am simply conveying it. I am being a voice for them until the time that they can fill more of the seats in this place, which is my personal desire.

I feel I am taking a very responsible position. The first nations have an absolute right to be consulted in advance and accommodated in how the system of education will be delivered. The government has held out in its preamble that it will do that. Regrettably, it is looking like the substantive provisions are not delivering on the preamble.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I sincerely thank my friend from Edmonton for her comments. I think she based them both on her personal experience and the experience of this country in connecting the travesty and the tragedy of what happened with residential schools when governments acted unilaterally, imposing their will on first nations people and saying that they knew what was best for them.

We know that path has led us to great harm that has lasted generations. It is a shame upon this country. The Prime Minister did the right thing in offering the apology, but within weeks cancelled the aboriginal healing foundation program, which was established to help people deal with the effects of residential schools. Therefore, one could understand why first nations people in this country feel a certain amount of cynicism or dread when they see the Conservative government come up with a first nations act and say, “Trust us. This one is good for you. We know best.”

To the member's point about what is happening on the ground in terms of where the solutions lie, because they do not lie here in Ottawa, not with the minister and certainly not with the government, the solutions to the challenges faced by first nations people in Canada rest with first nations people in Canada, and those educators who are out there with minimal resources doing a remarkable job and in some places a job that has been noted by many groups.

I will ask my friend this question. The C.D. Howe Institute, not generally known for progressive analysis, had noted in its research on British Columbia that the programs that had been established in coordination with the B.C. government with first nations people had been producing results and were in the process of dramatically increasing those graduation rates and those success rates. The first nations education steering committee in B.C. just had the rug completely pulled out from under it by the government. All the funding is gone, all the work is gone, all the progress is gone.

I ask my friend from Edmonton what, from her experience, and that of the first nations people who she has spoken to, the chiefs and educators, the sentiment is like on the ground for those who have worked so hard to achieve results under difficult circumstances when they now look at this act and the way that this act is being brought in by the government, and the details in there, the unilateral control and power that rests with the minister, who has made himself the minister of first nations education that the panel established but without any true, joint consultative process? I am wondering what message she believes is being sent to first nations people and to first nations educators across this country when they look at this act, despite all the efforts they have been doing on behalf of the entire country.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that is a very complicated question and I would love to have the opportunity to elaborate. That is exactly what we are supposed to be doing in this place. It is regrettable that the government has already cut down the opportunity for debate. I am hoping the government will actually deliver on the request by first nations that the bill be taken out to the communities so they can actually give their direct feedback, particularly the members of those communities.

It is really important to keep in mind that when the government is holding out that it would be providing equivalent education opportunities for first nations children and families, we are not at the same, equivalent starting place. As Chief Laboucan points out, “our children need better learning environments and quality lessons...Classrooms in furnace rooms and basements are appalling and unacceptable for anyone's children. Our teachers' salaries are below the Canadian average. There have been many inequities going on for years”.

While the government says it will give a greater supplement, I think 4.5% over time, that may well not be enough. The question they are asking is, how is that calculated? Is that considering the rising aboriginal population, the high percentage of youth, and how much money it will take to rebuild and provide safe schools, equivalent teaching and so forth?

It is a big task, but the first nations should have a direct voice.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I want to build on what my colleague from Edmonton has said. I have the honour of representing a constituency where 33 first nations all share major concerns when it comes to education funding.

Yesterday, I had the chance to rise in this House and talk about a school that does not have a fire alarm system. There are schools that have 69 students in a classroom, schools that have mould in them, schools that have portables that in -40° weather, freeze, and the students are cold.

The member talked about underpaid teachers and the lack of resources. There is a lack of books, a lack of paper, and a lack of pens. There is a clear indication that first nations students, because they are first nations, have unequal education in this country.

I would ask the member if she could comment. Why are the Conservatives not acting, fixing these schools, and dealing with the resources right away? Why did they not do that last year? Why did they not do that when they became government a number of years ago? Why these empty promises and, worst of all, this paternalistic approach that the minister knows best? Why did they not act earlier and why are they not listening to first nations in taking that action now?

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Churchill has been a long-standing representative for these first nations since she was elected, and I commend her for that.

Indeed, as I mentioned, we are starting at a different place for first nations in the education system. It is not simply a case of, “We are going to give them supplemental funding so they can build up their library, they can buy equipment for their labs”. They do not have labs. They do not have libraries. In most cases, their schools are mould-ridden. I have been to those schools. It is a travesty.

The question is, what is the real amount of funding that is necessary, and why are we waiting until 2016? This is a false promise. There is no guarantee that the government of today will be the government of tomorrow. It is absolutely critical that the funding come forward now. We should not be reducing the deficit on the backs of aboriginal children.