Bill C-205 (Historical)

An Act to amend the Health of Animals Act

This enactment amends the Health of Animals Act to make it an offence to enter, without lawful authority or excuse, a place in which animals are kept if doing so could result in the exposure of the animals to a disease or toxic substance that is capable of affecting or contaminating them.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you so much, Chair.

Thank you, Dr. Pritchard, for informing this committee as we examine Bill C-205.

You were chief veterinary officer of British Columbia—also my home province. Can you tell me a bit about some of your main duties in that role?

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you.

Let me go back to the enforcement of provincial legislation. According to a number of witnesses, it seems that having to prove damages also makes enforcing the legislation difficult. That would be one of the strengths of Bill C‑205. It would remove that burden. If I understood your opening statement correctly, you could start from the simple fact that the required protocols had not been followed. Since an offence would already have taken place, that would remove the burden of proof.

Did I understand you correctly?

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Pritchard, thank you for making yourself available today. We are glad to welcome you.

You are in favour of Bill C‑205, of course. I would like to start by talking about current legislation. Some who are opposed to the bill tell us that these break-ins are already covered in the Criminal Code.

What can we tell them to justify passing Bill C-205?.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Ms. Pritchard. Don't feel any pressure whatsoever that you are literally in the spotlight for the next hour. Certainly, it's great to have somebody with your experience and knowledge in this field to provide us with some great insights.

I wanted to touch on some of the things we've heard so far and to get your opinion on what you feel is possible. We heard from CFIA officials that Bill C-205 would be difficult to implement and enforce due to current resources.

You talked about the avian flu that was in the Fraser Valley in 2014, and we've seen the impact of BSE and the concerns with African swine fever. I also kind of tie it back to COVID, where, if we've learned anything, it's that when you prioritize something from government officials and they're given the right direction and adequate resources, you can overcome some obstacles.

Do you feel that with the right resources, and understanding the potential risk that is there with the right priorities, Bill C-205 could be implemented and enforced?

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As you know, last week we were unable to meet because of the resources available to the committees as the extension of sittings in the House has continued, so we had conversations. I sent an email to my colleagues on Friday, expressing that I thought it was important to finish all three of the panels we had agreed upon and move to clause-by-clause on Thursday. I've had conversations with Ms. Rood, Mr. MacGregor and Mr. Perron, and I'll now move:

That, notwithstanding the motions adopted by the committee on Tuesday, May 11, 2021, regarding Bill C-205, an act to amend the Health of Animals Act, the witnesses that were scheduled to appear on Thursday, June 10, 2021 be rescheduled to Tuesday, June 15, 2021; that clause-by-clause consideration of this bill commence on Thursday, June 17, 2021; and that amendments be submitted to the clerk of the committee no later than 12:00 p.m. (EDT) on Wednesday, June 16, 2021.

That is the text of the motion. I believe it has been distributed to my colleagues.

Mr. Chair, I would also say to my colleagues as we go to vote on this, that given the conversations I've had with my colleagues, I understand the clerk has prepared for the adoption of this motion, and I would ask that we go forward with that at this time.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting 39 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, March 10, 2021, and the motion adopted by the committee on May 11, 2021, the committee is commencing the clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-205, an act to amend the Health of Animals Act.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of January 25, 2021, and therefore members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website, and the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entirety of the committee.

I would like to take this opportunity to remind all participants in this meeting that screenshots or taking a photo of the screen are not permitted.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few rules.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute your mike. For those in the room, your microphone will be controlled as normal by the proceedings and verification officer.

Just a reminder that all comments by members and witnesses must be addressed through the chair. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute.

Kody, you have your hand up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

I call the meeting back to order.

I will start about halfway through if that's okay. You know the guidelines pretty well, so I'll continue.

I would like to take this opportunity to remind all participants at this meeting that screenshots, or taking photos of your screen, are not permitted.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few rules. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute your mike. For those in the room, your microphone will be controlled as normal by the proceedings and verification officer.

Just a reminder that all comments by members and witnesses must be addressed through the chair. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute.

Before we go to our witnesses, I want to remind members that the deadline for sending amendments with regard to Bill C-205 is Friday, June 11, at noon. Amendments must be sent to the clerk. If you want advice on the admissibility of an amendment, you may contact legislative clerk Jacques Maziade. If you need assistance with drafting amendments, you may contact legislative counsel Alexandra Schorah. I don't know if there will be any questions, but I wanted to remind all of you.

That being said, I will now welcome today's witnesses.

From ALUS, I believe it's Alternative Land Use Services, we have Bryan Gilvesy, chief executive officer; and from Farmers Edge Inc., we have Wade Barnes, chief executive officer, and Bruce Ringrose, head of sustainability and stakeholder relations.

Welcome to all of you. We'll go with a seven and a half minute opening statement.

Go ahead, Mr. Gilvesy.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I'll continue with the Turkey Farmers of Canada.

In the existing “Prohibitions” section in the parent act, the Health of Animals Act, where prohibitions are defined, when they deal with how to treat a diseased animal—for example, it's illegal to bring it to market, to conceal it or to let it go out into a pasture—they refer to “no person”, whereas Bill C-205 is using the specific language:

No person shall,

but then it includes:

without lawful authority or excuse

There have been a number of cases in which employees at a farm have been responsible for introducing a biosecurity threat. Is there anything we can do to make sure that every person—no matter whether he or she is a protester or a farm employee—is actually respecting those biosecurity protocols? Is there anything further the federal government can be doing to make sure that any person who's entering a place where animals are kept is observing those strict biosecurity protocols?

Are there any suggestions you might have?

[Marcel Groleau]

If the federal and provincial levels could collaborate, but also transfer responsibilities, as we see in other areas, it would help with the enforcement of not only Bill C‑205, but perhaps even aspects of other agreements between the federal government and the provincial government on the whole area of healthy livestock operations.

[Darren Ference]

I just think it's vital that we have this Bill C-205. The majority of farmers are passive, so it's hard to get them to lay a charge. They want to farm and they want to be on their farm. They don't want to be pulled away to go to a criminal court while they're calving or they're seeding. It becomes a hindrance, so it's hard to do that.

This will help deter people from coming there. It won't mean that the farmer necessarily has to press the charges, but with the law, charges can be pressed because the law was broken.

[Marcel Groleau]

In our opinion, Bill C‑205 should discourage demonstrators from making their way onto farms. They will have to find other ways to express their opinions, because, if their actions have any impact on the health and biosecurity of the animals or on the farms, or if they cause any damage, there will be significant monetary consequences. There is a deterrent effect. Penalties for traffic offences have been significantly increased and that has had a deterrent effect and led to corrections in behaviour. So penalties are important.

In Quebec, we will continue to work to amend the act dealing with home invasions or farm invasions. In the Civil Code of Quebec, incursions are currently not sufficiently penalized to discourage that kind of behaviour. That would be in addition to the tools we would have under Bill C‑205.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

How would Bill C‑205 encourage farmers to take the steps necessary to make sure that those responsible for the incursions are punished?

[Marcel Groleau]

I would like to clarify the term “scenes of horror”. When the cameras arrived, the demonstrators had already been on site for some time. You would see scenes of horror in any pig farm where 30 or so strangers were wandering around, where the animals should have been fed three hours previously but had not been, and where the doors were open and letting in the cold. So it is important to put that report into context.

Bill C‑205 is intended to protect farms from incursions that could cause problems for the well-being and health of the animals. To be honest with you, I don't think that the bill would correct the situation that happened on the Porgreg farm.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you.

The Radio-Canada report also mentioned “scenes of horror” in describing the state the pigs were in. In your opinion, would Bill C‑205 reduce the possibility of shedding light on situations of that kind?

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Do you consider that the fines currently proposed in Bill C‑205 are enough to have a deterrent effect?

It must be understood that, with what you have told us about Mr. Grégoire's farm, the impact in the area was very considerable.