Bill C-10 (Historical)

An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts

This enactment amends the Broadcasting Act to, among other things,
(a) add online undertakings — undertakings for the transmission or retransmission of programs over the Internet — as a distinct class of broadcasting undertakings;
(b) update the broadcasting policy for Canada set out in section 3 of that Act by, among other things, providing that the Canadian broadcasting system should serve the needs and interests of all Canadians — including Canadians from racialized communities and Canadians of diverse ethnocultural backgrounds — and should provide opportunities for Indigenous persons, programming that reflects Indigenous cultures and that is in Indigenous languages, and programming that is accessible without barriers to persons with disabilities;
(c) specify that the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (the “Commission”) must regulate and supervise the Canadian broadcasting system in a manner that
(i) takes into account the different characteristics of Indigenous language broadcasting and the different conditions under which broadcasting undertakings that provide Indigenous language programming operate,
(ii) is fair and equitable as between broadcasting undertakings providing similar services,
(iii) facilitates the provision of programs that are accessible without barriers to persons with disabilities, and
(iv) takes into account the variety of broadcasting undertakings to which that Act applies and avoids imposing obligations on a class of broadcasting undertakings if doing so will not contribute in a material manner to the implementation of the broadcasting policy;
(d) amend the procedure relating to the issuance by the Governor in Council of policy directions to the Commission;
(e) replace the Commission’s power to impose conditions on a licence with a power to make orders imposing conditions on the carrying on of broadcasting undertakings;
(f) provide the Commission with the power to require that persons carrying on broadcasting undertakings make expenditures to support the Canadian broadcasting system;
(g) authorize the Commission to provide information to the Minister responsible for that Act, the Chief Statistician of Canada and the Commissioner of Competition, and set out in that Act a process by which a person who submits certain types of information to the Commission may designate the information as confidential;
(h) amend the procedure by which the Governor in Council may, under section 28 of that Act, set aside a decision of the Commission to issue, amend or renew a licence or refer such a decision back to the Commission for reconsideration and hearing;
(i) specify that a person shall not carry on a broadcasting undertaking, other than an online undertaking, unless they do so in accordance with a licence or they are exempt from the requirement to hold a licence;
(j) harmonize the punishments for offences under Part II of that Act and clarify that a due diligence defence applies to the existing offences set out in that Act; and
(k) allow for the imposition of administrative monetary penalties for violations of certain provisions of that Act or of the Accessible Canada Act.
The enactment also makes related and consequential amendments to other Acts.

Broadcasting Act

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Madam Speaker, I did not really hear a question from the “evil green villain”, so I will leave it at that. She is not an evil green villain, I can assure everyone. She is a valuable colleague of ours in the House.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Madam Speaker, how does one follow on the comments made by the member for Saanich—Gulf Islands? I congratulate her relative for getting a role in Star Trek: Discovery. I am sure there are a lot of Trekkies out there who appreciate that and will watch with bated breath to see who she is portraying.

It is an honour for me to rise in the House today to join in the discussion of Bill C-10, an act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other acts.

As the member for Abbotsford put on the table, there are some fundamental flaws with it, one of which relates to the Governor in Council. When we go through the bill, one thing that jumps out right away is the power the Governor in Council will have. There would be a lot of power situated in the minister's office and cabinet when it comes to making decisions regarding Canadian content and broadcasting services, and that is a fundamental flaw in the bill.

What also pops out when reading the bill is the pretty broad definition of “online business”. I think that is what people were looking for.

Another issue my constituents have brought forward to me, which we will have time to talk about more, is the issue of giving more power to the CRTC. When we talk about the availability of online services, broadcasting and the news, most Canadians would like to see less power in the Ottawa bubble and the CRTC and more power throughout the country, as people would like to have more options.

I agree, and I think many members of the House would agree, that waiting 28 years to update a bill is a substantial length of time. The member for Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry mentioned he was three years old when this act was introduced, and he talked about some of the great music then. Times have changed, and a lot of conversations need to be had now about how we are going to do business using online services with Facebook and Netflix.

What are we going to do? How are we going to do it? The members across the way have talked about what taxes should look like for very big corporations, and the member for Abbotsford brought it up very well when he said that when businesses come to Canada they expect to be treated fairly. That is something we need to keep in mind when we are looking at this legislation.

We talked about having Canadian content and making sure there is a level playing field when it comes to news services. I think the other issue we need to talk about is how smaller online businesses and news services are competing with the bigger online services. That needs to be levelled as well.

Some smaller businesses are trying to compete against taxpayer dollars. The member for Barrie—Innisfil said, very correctly, that some of these small local publications are trying to compete with the CBC online, and the CBC has a good online paper. The member for Saskatoon—Grasswood talked about how it just updated its online presence, which is wonderful, but that online presence is now competing with smaller online papers. It is very hard for them to compete, because they do not have the resources that bigger companies like CBC, CTV or Global have. We need to take that into consideration as well when we are looking at how we will be able to ensure that smaller publications have the ability to compete. A lot of Canadians across the country want to see competition in the online broadcasting field and the ability to have more selection and options when looking at online news and broadcasting.

We also need to have a discussion about how we are going to ensure there is correct information online. That conversation is important in this day and age. Some of the members across the way have brought up fake news, or whatever they like to call it, but I think it is also incumbent upon us to make sure we hold ourselves to a higher level of decorum in the House when debating bills. Let us not bring up issues that are not related to Bill C-10, nor have personal attacks back and forth during these speeches. That is below parliamentarians and below the level that our constituents expect from us. We need a higher level of discourse in this chamber.

I expect that to continue and expect us to raise the bar of decorum in the House to ensure that when we have debates about important legislation, we stick to the facts and the debate at hand. We must leave personal and partisan feelings away from the table when we have these conversations. I will do my best to ensure that there is good decorum in this chamber whenever I am on my feet to talk about important bills.

When we have conversations on Bill C-10, possible situations could arise that are interesting. The long-awaited legislation is the result of the Yale report on the framework for communications in Canada tabled in February 2020. The 97 recommendations of the report deal with social media, copyright, taxation of web giants and advertising fees to ensure the sustainability of traditional media. Bill C-10 is limited to the modernization of the Broadcasting Act, which essentially consists of introducing, as I said earlier, a very broad definition of online business, broadcasting cultural content and giving the CRTC broad discretion to regulate them where it does require a percentage of Canadian content, requires financial contributions and imposes fines to investigate compliance.

There are a lot of recommendations from the Yale report, which Bill C-10 is based on, that have not been implemented, and I think we should take some time to step back. That is why on this side we think Bill C-10 misses the mark in a few areas, especially regarding centralizing the discretion within the CRTC and within the Minister of Canadian Heritage's office, which we think is a big concern. Many of my colleagues have talked about that concern. We need to ensure there are broader consultations about where Canadians would like to see the ability to regulate and where our online business and our broadcasting ideas would come from.

We want more news available, and we want Canadian content within our broadcasting. However, the bill misses the mark on creating some fairness within the broadcasting sector and ensuring that we have space for smaller and start-up publications. There are a couple back home I can think of that would be hurt from not having a level playing field when starting up and competing with the larger companies, such as CBC, Global and CTV. They need to start with an online presence, because that helps.

I know, as do the young staff in my office, that there are not a lot of newspapers in the office anymore. We have our phones and PressReader, and we get much of our information from online sources.

I know the Regina Leader Post and The Star Phoenix have dropping publication numbers in Saskatchewan. They are working hard to make sure they have a large online presence because they realize that more and more people are getting their news from websites and through online services.

We need to allow for room in online businesses so they have the ability to compete. It is not as fair at this point as we would like to see it, and we wish there would have been the ability within Bill C-10 to create a more level playing field.

When it comes to online services, companies such as Netflix and Facebook should pay their fair share, as my colleagues across the way like to say. I think that is a good point, but they need to have certainty so that before they come to Canada, they know what the taxes or fees are going to be when they bring their businesses to Canada. Without certainty, it is very hard to attract new businesses and new tech companies to Canada if they do not know what the fees will be.

Given the uncertainty reasons and the power that is going to be situated within the CRTC and the minister's office, we have issues and concerns. That is why we will not be supporting this piece of legislation at this time.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Small Business]

Madam Speaker, I would like to point out that levelling the playing field and taxing web giants is the purview of the Minister of Finance, which is why the Minister of Finance, in the fall economic statement, said that we would be taxing web giants.

With respect to Bill C-10, which was presented by the Minister of Canadian Heritage, I would say, perhaps echoing colleagues from the Conservative Party, that it is high time we modernize the Broadcasting Act. I wonder why this colleague is suggesting that we should delay it further by doing more consultations. We have consulted extensively with the broadcasting sector, content providers and the culture industry here in Canada.

Unlike the Conservatives, who did not modernize the Broadcasting Act when they were in power for 10 years, we are proposing to do that now. It is 2020, and it is time to move forward. Would the member opposite agree?

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Madam Speaker, it is time to modernize the Broadcasting Act.

Would the member agree that all the power should not reside with the CRTC and with the office of the Minister of Canadian Heritage, regarding what the Broadcasting Act should entail?

I have a problem with that. Canadians and constituents that I represent in Regina—Lewvan say that the CRTC does not need more power. It needs less power. That is definitely one reason why. It is because of the people I support. I have listened to people within my constituency and across Saskatchewan who firmly believe that there should be less power residing in the minister's office and in the CRTC, not more power.

Those would be two very good reasons why I cannot support this bill at this time.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech.

I would make a little correction to what the parliamentary secretary said. The Liberals are not going to tax web giants next year. They are going to make the consumers who use their services pay GST. That is not at all the same thing.

I really enjoyed my colleague's speech. He said that the definition of “broadcaster” was very broad, but a lot of people are saying that it is actually not broad enough and that this law should account for technologies that do not yet exist and that will be released in the future. For example, social media platforms are not considered broadcasters, even though there is a good chance that some of them will become broadcasters in the coming months. Things are moving very quickly.

Should we not create a bill that accounts for technological changes and that is broad enough to include them in the future?

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Madam Speaker, I agree completely with the member's statement.

One of the problems we had with this bill is that the definition was so broad, and there was not more included in it. The member is right: the modernization of this bill should include the fact that Facebook and Netflix should be seen as broadcasters. That would be a good solution.

That is probably one of the reasons why he may not be able to vote in favour of this bill, because that definition is not there.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question.

I do agree with some of the things he said, including the fact that this bill relies too heavily on the CRTC. It is not that the people working for the CRTC are bad people, but I had some bad experiences with the CRTC a few years ago when I was the spokesperson for the Mouvement Montréal français. We had complained to the CRTC about some private radio stations in Quebec because they were not complying with quotas for French music, especially at peak listening hours. They were finding ways around the rules.

For example, they would edit English songs into one 10- to 15-minute-long track. Since the songs played consecutively without interruption, for quota purposes, that counted as a single song. Private radio stations were effectively playing a 15-minute English song at peak listening hours. It was ridiculous.

Does my colleague not think that, as legislators, we should give the CRTC much clearer rules, especially to protect French-language content?

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Madam Speaker, that would be another issue that we have with the legislation. It does not provide any benchmarks to legislate the percentage of French-language content. I would agree with the member.

I bet he is not the only one who has had issues with the CRTC, when it comes to people who have been involved in the broadcasting services. His interaction is probably not one that is replicated across the country with the hard-working people at the CRTC. We just think there should be a more strict delineation of power within the CRTC, and people across the country would like to have more say in what broadcasting standards should be.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Madam Speaker, before we begin discussions on regulating content on the Internet, let us recognize that Canada has 38 million regulators. They are called customers. They are the people who decide what they watch. With the click of a mouse, they can choose the content that serves their interests. For the same reason, the ability to produce unique and diverse content is greater today than ever before. The advent of the Internet, far from limiting the production of Canadian content, has vastly expanded it by dramatically reducing the cost of production and distribution.

If members really think about it, the cost of producing and distributing content today is probably 99% lower than it was just 25 years ago. There are 14-year-old kids who can produce their own movie trailers on their laptop computers and broadcast them before as many eyes as want to see them, without spending a single dollar beyond the purchase of a bit of software and a laptop on which to design them, and the quality is probably superior to what Hollywood would have been able to create just a few decades ago.

This has democratized and expanded the scope of content. It has allowed minorities, and people with particular interests not held by the majority, to reach audiences. Back in the old days, people had to compete for real estate in HMV, the local record store or the local Blockbuster, and if someone was not among the top 50, they did not get that real estate. Even if their product was interesting to 3% of the public, they could not sell it to anybody, because they had no means of getting it to the public and they could not generate the capital to produce it in the first place.

I will acknowledge that the changes to which this bill proposes to respond are actually good changes. They are democratizing changes. They spread out power and diversity, which is something we should allow and that freedom provides.

The current government seeks to extend its reach and broaden its tentacles into the Internet.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Hear, hear!

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Madam Speaker, “Hear, hear!” says the Liberal member across the way. Every once in a while the veil falls, and they reveal their true selves. I say they want to extend their tentacles into the Internet, and one of the most prominent Liberal MPs says, “Hear, hear.” I thank him for his temporary and accidental honesty.

I will quote Andrew Coyne, who is far from a Conservative, who says in The Globe and Mail, which is far from a Conservative publication, “The Canadian government's Bill C-10 has opened the door to serious state regulation of the Internet.” The Prime Minister has expressed his admiration for Fidel Castro and for the basic dictatorship of communist China; has attempted to use this pandemic to extend to himself the unmitigated power to raise any tax at any time by any amount, until 2022; has used a debate commission to put Craig Kielburger, and other Liberal insiders, in control of how the leaders' debate would go; and has extended a taxpayer subsidy to the media and then put the head of Unifor, a Liberal-backed organization, in charge of how the money is given out. Whenever such a Prime Minister introduces a bill to extend the power of the state over the Internet, we should be very suspicious.

I will quote Mr. Coyne, who says:

While the government claims it would not empower the CRTC to regulate smaller services such as Britbox, social media sites such as Youtube or online news content, the bill contains no specific provisions that would prohibit it, and includes provisions that seem to allow it. For example, the bill exempts “programs that are uploaded to an online undertaking” by its users and “online undertakings whose broadcasting consist of only such programs.” It leaves the way open for the CRTC to regulate services that show both user-generated and curated content. Like Youtube.

That means we would be opening the door for the CRTC to regulate the kinds of things that everyday Canadians produce and upload onto the Internet.

We are allowing the CRTC, which is an already overly powerful bureaucracy of nameless, faceless government authorities, to potentially extend its regulation into what content people put on the Internet. It is no surprise the Prime Minister would want to limit and regulate that kind of content. Often the kind of independent material uploaded to the Internet by everyday Canadians is the only place outside of the House where he faces real criticism. He is not protected by the adoring glow of his supporters in the press gallery. Therefore, he has to contend with the scrutiny of everyday Canadians who dare criticize him or his ideological direction, or dare produce content that might contradict his world view.

The government refuses to clearly circumscribe the power of the CRTC, and it opens the door for that power to be extended. We can only assume it was designed for the very purpose of extending more control over what Canadians watch, read, hear and produce. That is further compounded by the fact that the bill allows the cabinet to have order-making power over the CRTC, and to direct how it will apply these brand new powers: powers that the member across the way is salivating over right now. Powers that he said, “Hear, hear” to, as soon as I suggested that he might have them.

We live in a free country. Everyday, ordinary Canadians should be allowed their own megaphones and the only limit on how loud and how vast their voices are should be whether people choose to listen to them. Everyday Canadians should be able to decide what they like by voting with their clicks. That is the kind of liberty we should extend to the Canadian people. In the marketplace of ideas, there is no role for state coercion and intimidation. There is no role for nameless, faceless government bureaucrats to decide who is heard and who is not. Everyday Canadian people should have the freedom to do that for themselves.

If we, on this side of the House of Commons, are the only ones to stand up for free speech, then there a lot of Canadians who will stand with us. We know that we have, in the Prime Minister, someone who does not believe in free speech. After a French newspaper was the victim of a terrorist attack, he was asked about free speech and whether that publication should have freedom of expression. He said, “Freedom of expression is not unlimited”, as if to suggest that the attack against the publication was somehow justified on the grounds that the publication had improperly exercised freedom of expression, and that the state ought to have the ability to limit that expression. He then backed down, by the way. He came to the House of Commons and reversed himself completely, swallowed himself whole and realized how much he had humiliated himself by revealing his real thoughts to the Canadian people.

Every time the Prime Minister attempts to extend control over what we see, hear, read and produce, we ought to view the proposal through the lens of a man who believes in strong state control over its citizens. We on this side of the House will stand for the ancient liberties we have inherited from our ancestors and that we hope to bequeath to those who come after us.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, I detect a Reform Party comeback when I listen to the member opposite. I am a bit surprised of the manner in which the member feels government does not have any role. If we listen to his comments, we would think that he wants to see the demise of the CRTC. From across the way, he gestures yes, what is wrong with that?

The vast majority of Canadians recognize the value of Canadian content, not to mention the thousands of jobs that come as a direct result. Through this legislation the government is ensuring Canadian content and good middle-class jobs. We are moving forward.

Why is the Conservative Party moving more to the Reform side? This is like going back to the Harper era in the extreme.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Madam Speaker, the member wants to go back to 1984.

I will identify the member as the Liberal MP who yelled “Hear, hear!” when I said the government is attempting to extend its tentacles and take control over the Internet. He yelled out “Hear, hear!”, confirming my claim to be true.

We know the member's bias. He believes that people like him should decide what everyday Canadians are allowed to see. He thinks that Canadians are too stupid or too morally bankrupt to choose for themselves, that he, in his ivory tower with his Liberal elitist friends, should be able to regulate what Canadians choose to watch because he, of course, is made of better clay. He is a superior, a thinker, and therefore should be able to regulate the thoughts of every single Canadian.

We on this side disagree. We have faith in Canadians and believe they should have the freedom to choose for themselves.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Madam Speaker, I was very curious to hear what our Conservative colleagues would have to say about Bill C-10. I was actually wondering what was holding up the vote on this bill, when everyone on the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage and the entire cultural and media sector are anxious for us to study this and move it forward.

Of course I understand my colleague's concerns about certain Internet regulations that will prevent misinformation, which they are probably a little more partial to than we are, but I do not see where freedom of expression is being infringed upon in any way in this bill. If he were to consult the players in the media and cultural sector in Quebec and Canada, my colleague would very quickly see that these are legitimate requests coming from the industry, that they are not ideological at all, and they have nothing to do with the online content that the government may or may not want to control.

I would like to know whether my colleague took the time to consult the cultural and media sector before forming his opinion on the matter.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Madam Speaker, here is the centralist Bloc, which now wants more federal regulations. It wants an authority here in Ottawa to have more control over what Quebeckers choose to watch and consume. The Bloc Québécois is contradicting itself. It is the centralist Bloc.

We think that Quebeckers should be masters in their own house, that each of them should be able to choose for themselves what they watch on the Internet. A federal authority in Ottawa should not be deciding that for them.

He is asking me why I think that the government wants to control the Internet. I am looking at the comments of the minister, who said that people should have to get a licence from the federal government to produce online content. I would never have thought that a sovereignist party would support the idea of a federal authority in Ottawa requiring people to have a licence to express themselves.

We are the only party that will protect Quebeckers' freedom of expression.