Bill C-6 (Historical)

An Act to amend the Criminal Code (conversion therapy)

This enactment amends the Criminal Code to, among other things, create the following offences:
(a) causing a person to undergo conversion therapy without the person’s consent;
(b) causing a child to undergo conversion therapy;
(c) doing anything for the purpose of removing a child from Canada with the intention that the child undergo conversion therapy outside Canada;
(d) promoting or advertising an offer to provide conversion therapy; and
(e) receiving a financial or other material benefit from the provision of conversion therapy.
It also amends the Criminal Code to authorize courts to order that advertisements for conversion therapy be disposed of or deleted.

Criminal Code

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I want to let members know how excited I am about the bill and how important it is. It has made me think of my former colleague at the University of Winnipeg, Catherine Taylor, who won a precedent-setting ethics committee review to allow kids who are part of the 2SLGBTQQIA community to participate in a research study, which resulted in her receiving death threats.

I reiterate how critical it is to protect kids when we are still evolving as a society to allow people to live who they are. This is a human right, and I want to express my support for Bill C-6.

Members of the Conservative Party have raised concerns about parental control. I would ask the member why is it so critical that kids who perhaps are in families where parents are not supportive of their identity are still provided with the protection they deserve and require to protect this human right.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to touch on exactly that when we talk about families. Many years ago my aunt came out. The family was not sure how to answer that question, because it was unfortunately a very different time. Those conversations now happen very openly.

I am hoping, and I know I am going off target, that even with this pandemic she will be celebrating her nuptials with her long-time partner in a couple of weeks. I am hoping to be there to witness it. She has had a long road, and I am really proud of her.

I am proud of so many Canadians who are who they are, are not afraid to stand up for who they are and know there is nothing wrong with them. They are free to be who they are.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Before we go to resuming debate, I notice the topic before the House this afternoon is, of course, of great interest during questions and comments. I do see a number of members trying to get in, both here in the House and by virtual connection. I am going to do my best to make sure everyone gets a chance to pose a question. We will take them in order and make it as equal as we can across the House and each of the parties. In that sense, it would help if members could make their questions and comments succinct.

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Kildonan—St. Paul.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I was first elected just over a year ago. When I stepped foot in the House of Commons and sat in one those famous green chairs, I instantly felt the enormous weight of the responsibility to ethically and professionally represent the 85,000 people in my riding of Kildonan—St. Paul.

It is a very diverse riding. There are many seniors and young families, hard-working small business owners, trades professionals and public servants. There are thriving faith communities, which have risen to the enormous challenges of the pandemic and provided much needed to support to those hit hardest by the economic and health challenges. There are also many people from the LGBTQ community and many more parents, friends, sisters and brothers and neighbours to LGBTQ people.

As the member of Parliament to all these wonderful groups and many more, I have the responsibility to defend our country’s freedoms and civil liberties on their behalf and to help create a society that treats all people with dignity, compassion and respect, especially our society’s most vulnerable. That is why the discussion on Bill C-6, an act to amend the Criminal Code concerning conversion therapy and the LGBTQ community is important to me as a parliamentarian and the federal representative of Kildonan—St. Paul.

We know history has not been kind to the LGBTQ community. In Canada, in the 1800s, same-sex relationships between men were punishable by death. In the 1950s and 1960s, there were efforts to eliminate all homosexuals from the public service, the RCMP and the Canadian military. Following the decriminalization of homosexuality in 1969, things began to slowly change for the better for the LGBTQ community. The Canadian pride movement gained traction in the 1970s, but police continued to raid gay bars and arrest and intimidate LGBTQ Canadians.

However, in 1982, Canada patriated the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and section 15 of the charter guaranteed for all Canadians equality before and under the law, and the right to equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination. This section became critical for the LGBTQ community in 1995 when the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that sexual orientation should be read in or applied to section 15 of the charter.

Further, in 1992, former Conservative justice minister Kim Campbell lifted the ban on homosexuals in the military. Canada became one of the first modern countries in the world to do so. In 2005, Canada became the fourth country in the world to officially legalize same-sex marriage nationwide. These rights and many more in Canada were hard fought and won by the LGBTQ community and their allies, so they could live free and be equal under the law.

I was born in 1990, so the rights and acceptance of LGBTQ Canadians has largely been the norm for my entire life, and the 2005 same-sex marriage debate occurred just as I was entering young adulthood. For me, protection of sexual orientation, identity and expression are a given in a society that is as free, diverse and accepting as Canada.

However, we know that even today, LGBTQ Canadians face discrimination and immense hardship. When I was the shadow minister for diversity, inclusion and youth, I had the opportunity to meet with many support groups for the LGBTQ community. They shared with me truly heartbreaking stories, stories of how they provided emergency supports for young people who were, for example, kicked out of their homes for being gay, whose parents had disowned them. I was told it happens more often than one thinks.

They shared how trans kids are so often abused by others, whether at home, walking down the street or at school. They also shared how they helped older adults struggling with coming out because they grew up in a different time, when LGBTQ Canadians had to hide in the closet, so to speak. These were very eye-opening conversations for me of the realities faced by many LGBTQ people in Canada.

A young person who recently transitioned, who I have come to know, shared with me what this bill meant to her. She said, “The hardest thing for young LGBTQ people is believing your family won’t support you or love you for who you are. This bill says it’s wrong to pressure or force someone to be someone they—

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

I will interrupt the hon. member for a moment.

On a point of order, the hon. member for Banff—Airdrie.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I believe the member will be splitting her time with the member for Mégantic—L'Érable.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Is the hon. member for Kildonan—St. Paul wishing to share her time?

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Yes, Mr. Speaker. My apologies for not saying that at the beginning.

I am going to continue with the quote from my friend, who said, “This bill says it's wrong to pressure or force someone to be someone they are not. It would say that being LGBTQ is just as valid as being straight or cisgender. What we need as young people, is to be loved and supported for who we are.”

Although there are limited statistics and studies on conversion therapy, the data tells us that conversion therapy is happening in Canada, that over 20,000 LGBTQ Canadians have been subjected to it, and a further 11% of trans individuals in Canada are survivors of conversion therapy. We call them survivors because we know that conversion therapy can result in suicide, depression, self-harm, social isolation and many other horrible long-term impacts.

As a result, jurisdictions across Canada began banning this practice a few years ago, whether at the provincial level in the public health system or at the civic level with business licences. Now we are debating legislation to ban it at the federal level by using the Criminal Code.

I am proud to be a member of a party that believes conversion therapy is wrong and should be banned. We believe no Canadian should be forced to change who they are. We know that too many Canadians have been harmed by conversion therapy and have been a target of degrading and dehumanizing practices in efforts to change their sexual orientation against their will.

I was very proud of our Conservative leader when he said:

I am here to secure the rights of every Canadian, including those in the LGBTQ community, and to build an inclusive and prosperous country for all.

Further, he acknowledged the persecution this community continues to face:

For too many LGBTQ Canadians, that persecution may have even involved the threat or use of conversion therapy. To be forced to change who they are is not okay. That is something I hope no Canadian ever endures again....

I agree wholeheartedly with our leader, and that is why I hope Parliament can pass a bill that protects LGBTQ youth and the rights and freedoms of all Canadians.

However, when this bill was introduced in the last session of Parliament this past March, I received many calls, emails and letters from Canadians who were concerned about the lack of clarity in this bill. Parents were concerned that the language used in this bill meant they would be prohibited from speaking to their children about sexuality and gender, from setting house rules about sex and relationships, and from having free and open conversations with their children about sexuality. I assured those concerned that when this bill was first tabled in March, the Liberal government provided clarity in its bill's news release, which clearly stated:

These new offences would not criminalise private conversations in which personal views on sexual orientation, sexual feelings or gender identity are expressed such as where teachers, school counsellors, pastoral counsellors, faith leaders, doctors, mental health professionals, friends or family members provide...support to persons struggling with their sexual orientation, sexual feelings, or gender identity.

Upon hearing this, many of the fears about this bill were assuaged. However, fears and concerns remain that the language from the news release was not included in this bill. These fears are well known by the Liberal government. If the Liberals truly want to build consensus in our diverse Canadian society, I encourage them to listen to these concerns and simply put the wording of their own news release into the legislation, so more Canadians can support this bill.

This is an opportunity for Parliament and all parties to come together and support the rights, freedoms and equality of LGBTQ Canadians, but by ignoring the concerns expressed by some Canadians about this bill, the Liberals, it would seem, have opted to turn this critical issue into a divisive one. The LGBTQ community has for so long been unfairly persecuted, and I do not believe anyone would advocate for the unfair persecution of others and the criminalization of private conversations.

Our leader spoke to this point very well when he said:

People need to be free to talk openly to people they trust in their families or communities. That could be about coming out. That could be about their orientation or their gender identity. It could also be about their own faith or their own personal life journey. They should feel free to talk to others without the fear of a public prosecution.

He rightly pointed out that in this smart phone age, when young people are glued to social media, we cannot criminalize talking. Rather, we must facilitate it.

The issue of conversion therapy and the harm done to LGBTQ Canadians is too important. We need to get this right. It is our legislative duty to do so, which is why we will be proposing reasonable amendments at the justice committee, so the legislation will better protects all Canadians and is clear in its meaning.

In conclusion, I believe conversion therapy should be banned to protect young people who identify as LGBTQ. I also believe the Charter of Rights and Freedoms must be honoured as we move forward and build a more inclusive society.

There are many difficult conversations to be had in my future as a legislator. In fact, very few of the issues debated in the House of Commons seem to be simple or easy. After all, we live in a very diverse, multicultural, pluralistic society with many different world views, and I want my constituents and all Canadians to know they can count on me to stand up for the rights and freedoms of every citizen in this country. I will always lead with the intent to treat others with dignity, compassion and respect.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I found the member's intervention interesting. I hope that every member has an understanding that members of the SOGIE community, which stands for sexual orientation and gender identity and expression, do not need to be fixed and that it is impossible to change someone's sexual orientation through counselling or aversion therapy. In fact, any attempt to alter a person's sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression is extremely harmful to those subjected to it, leading to depression, social isolation, often self harm and even death by suicide. It is important to recognize the part about suicide, because so many people are gone and will never get the chance to find a safe reality.

This is not a question of conversations. This is a question of oppressive counselling that can harm people fundamentally. Could the member explain how she could confuse the two?

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with the member, and if she had listened to my speech, she would have heard how much I wholeheartedly understand the harms of conversion therapy and the detrimental effects it has had on the citizens of Canada over the last 100 years.

What I have heard from my constituents, whom I have a duty to represent in the House of Commons, is concerns that this bill is criminalizing conversations. That is their understanding. If the member was listening, I mentioned that I talked to concerned citizens about the Liberals' news release. They included a section in their news release that was not in the legislation, and with it, many of the fears about criminalizing conversations were assuaged. What I asked for in my speech was further clarity and initiative from the Liberal government to ensure that everyone understands their rights with this bill.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her speech. During the last session, I had the honour of sitting with her on the Standing Committee on the Status of Women, where we discussed gender equality. Today, we are debating conversion therapy.

Much has been said about the fact that women were hit particularly hard by the pandemic, as was another community. That is, of course, the LGBTQ+ community. Before the pandemic, it was already in great distress, which was exacerbated by the pandemic. The pandemic revealed the true extent of their distress. It is the reason why, with this bill, we are sending a strong message to this community that we stand with it, we support its efforts and we must dispel the myths and prejudices spread by conversion therapy.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from the Standing Committee on the Status of Women for her question.

I agree with her that the pandemic has exacerbated many of the societal problems we see. Home is not a safe place for many folks, so having to isolate at home or stay at home because there is no other option further endangers folks who are not in a safe home. That plays right into the issues of conversion therapy and abuse against women and children. If the Liberals had not shut down Parliament for five months and then prorogued it for six weeks, we may have debated this legislation sooner and could have passed it sooner.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I concur with my colleague that conversion therapy is definitely an issue we need to deal with.

I have a concern for individuals who I think the member would have a heart for as well. Max said her gender transition was not the solution to her severe depression and did not deal with her negative feelings of self-image and self-identity. Lee said she should not have been encouraged to transition. Elle said that at the time, she did not realize it was possible to not hate her body.

These are just a few of many individuals who are now sharing and talking among themselves. They have transitioned and then detransitioned, though they are not being rude in any way to those who continue to be their friends and have gone through this transition. I am concerned for them. They are sharing in the public square through YouTube, which is what the younger generation does, and they had all transitioned before age 18. I believe they do not feel safe in the circumstances with the definition of conversion therapy in the bill.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I understand where my colleague is coming from. A number of individuals have sent me those same YouTube links and information about individuals who have had a very difficult time with their transition, regardless of where they are on the spectrum, whether they are transitioning or detransitioning.

What I have come to learn over the last year I have studied this issue, and formerly as the diversity, inclusion and youth shadow minister, is that there are many heartbreaking stories. That is why it is important that as parliamentarians we protect the support, in the family and in the community, for individuals dealing with these very challenging issues. That is why I think it is important for Parliament to ensure that we are not criminalizing conversations through this legislation.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is with great humility that I decided to speak to Bill C-6 today. For the benefit of anyone watching our proceedings in the House, I would like to remind everyone what Bill C-6, which we have been debating since this morning, is about.

The bill aims to discourage and denounce conversion therapy by criminalizing certain activities related to it, with the further intention of protecting “the human dignity and equality of all Canadians.” It amends the Criminal Code in order, among other things, to prohibit anyone from advertising services related to conversion therapy; forcing persons or causing a child to undergo conversion therapy; removing a child from Canada to undergo conversion therapy abroad; and receiving a material benefit from the provision of conversion therapy.

Why did I decide to speak to this today? It is simple: because I am a father. I have three amazing children, a beautiful family, and I want what is best for their future. I love them for who they are, not who I wish they were. I love them because they are complete, autonomous individuals who make their own choices. Of course, as a father, I can try to influence their choices. I can help them make the right choices and help them get back on track when they make the wrong choices. I can be there for them at all times. However, as a a father, I could never change what they are or who they are. Never, ever would it have occurred to me to pay for them to undergo therapy to change who they are.

I will be clear. A person can make poor choices, but they cannot choose who they are. A person's sexual orientation and gender are not a matter of choice. As I prepared my speech, I read the testimony of young people who had been subjected to conversion therapy. As a father, I never would have subjected my children to such treatment. Those are the values I hold and they are based on the knowledge I have and what I intrinsically believe to be the right thing to do. Many Canadians and Quebeckers share those values.

I wanted to know more about conversion therapy. I found this report from the Ordre des psychologues du Québec, which issued a statement about conversion therapy in 2012. I will read an excerpt so that members and all Quebeckers and Canadians can understand my position.

Research on these issues has shown that it would be unethical to offer homosexuals wishing to undergo psychotherapy a procedure designed to change their sexual orientation as a treatment option. Not only is this practice unproven, but it also runs the risk of creating false hope and could cause more suffering when the treatment inevitably fails.

Furthermore, offering conversion therapy, especially if the individual did not explicitly request it, may reinforce the false belief that homosexuality is abnormal, worsen the distress or shame some feel about not conforming to expectations, and undermine self-esteem. Research shows that procedures designed to change sexual orientation may have a significant negative impact and cause greater distress than that for which they originally sought psychotherapy.

The report then lists some mental health issues.

Instead, psychotherapy should focus on treating the depression or anxiety, relieving stress, building self-esteem and helping the individual face any challenges they may encounter. In other words, the treatment should help them grow without consideration for their sexual orientation.

This report was from 2012, and I think it is very clear. It is a good introduction and helps set the stage for Bill C-6, which would criminalize the practice of conversion therapy in Canada.

Had the Liberal government not prorogued Parliament, conversion therapy would probably be on the verge of being banned in Canada. The debates would have been held, everyone's views would have been heard, and the majority of the House would have already voted to ban this offensive practice, which, I must humbly admit, I did not even know about before I became a member of Parliament.

I also want to share the position taken by the Government of Quebec, which just announced that it plans to ban conversion therapy in the province. This reflects how the majority of Quebeckers feel about this practice. The practice of conversion therapy will be banned in Quebec.

It will soon be against the law in Quebec to offer a homosexual person heterosexual conversion therapy. Bill 70 will ban anyone from soliciting another, whether free of charge or for payment, to engage in a process of converting their sexual orientation. Once the bill becomes law, an offender could be fined up to $50,000, or even $150,000 in the case of a corporation. That is significant, and it speaks to the importance of this issue.

Across Canada, an estimated 47,000 men have been subjected to conversion therapy. Unfortunately, I did not find any statistics on women, but I am sure that many women have been affected. There are little to no statistics on the number of cases in Quebec, because the phenomenon is under-reported there. That probably explains why I had never heard of conversion therapy before being elected a federal MP.

No Canadian should be forced to change who they are. We know that far too many Canadians have been victims of this practice. As parliamentarians, we have a duty to protect the most vulnerable members of our society. That includes members of the LGBTQ+ community who have been victims of degrading or dehumanizing practices intended to change their sexual orientation against their will.

Everyone deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. We need to do things properly. That is why we are going to propose a reasonable amendment to the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights to ensure this bill does a better job of protecting Canadians.

The government could have chosen an approach that would have garnered the support of even more MPs if it had taken into account comments received when the first version of the bill to ban conversion therapy was introduced. Again, for those tuning in, an identical bill, Bill C-8, was introduced during the first session of the 43rd Parliament, but it died on the Order Paper when Parliament was prorogued on August 18, 2020.

I had an opportunity to speak to the House during that session, and I emphasized the fact that, unfortunately, the form and the content were different and needed clarification. Although the Department of Justice's website makes it very clear that private conversations between parents and children are protected, the bill did not. The Department of Justice's website states the following:

These new offences would not criminalise private conversations in which personal views on sexual orientation, sexual feelings or gender identity are expressed such as where teachers, school counsellors, pastoral counsellors, faith leaders, doctors, mental health professionals, friends or family members provide affirming support to persons struggling with their sexual orientation, sexual feelings, or gender identity.

However, this explanation is not included in the section of the bill with the definition of conversion therapy. Adding it would provide greater clarity.

We know that the member for Winnipeg North talks a lot, but sometimes he makes good requests. Today, I heard him request, perhaps unusually, that an hon. Bloc Québécois member tell him what amendments would improve Bill C-6 so it would garner greater support from members of the House and Canadians.

I am taking this opportunity to humbly submit this small improvement to Bill C-6. We will propose an amendment that will seek to guarantee that voluntary conversations between these people and their teachers, school counsellors and all those I mentioned will not be criminalized, as indicated on the department's website.

I do not mean to imply that the Liberals or the minister asked that this part of the description of the bill be removed so that they could play petty partisan politics on this important issue. If such is the case, then that is unacceptable. If it was an error, then it can be fixed. I would prefer that it be fixed than to speak about partisanship and petty politics.

However, these words, which come from the government itself and are found on the department's website, open the door to greater support from Canadians for this bill. That is important for our country and for the LGBTQ+ community. The government wants to be honest, open and transparent. Now it has a unique opportunity to show that the Liberals are able to rise above the fray for once and give more Canadians the opportunity to see themselves reflected in Bill C-6, which has the vital objective of putting an end to conversion therapy in our country once and for all.

In closing, I do not identify with an LGBTQ+ group. I cannot claim to understand how a person who has been ostracized, bullied or mocked because of who they are must feel. However, as a father, a Quebecker and a Canadian, I know that it is high time that this country put an end to conversion therapy.